predestination vs freewill
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Like I said, You ignore scriptures that do not align with your false theory. 1 Cor 2:14 teaches us that the natural man, before he has been born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, cannot discern (believe) in the things of the Spirit. Those who believe are already born again.
What is your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:14 & Isa 63:11?
What is your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:14 & Isa 63:11?
You seem to have a pride in your own entelect with regards to understanding the scriptures. The scriptures teach us that until a born again person denies himself (entelect) and trusts in the Holy Spirit within him to reveal the understanding of the scriptures, the Holy Spirit will not reveal the truths because the person would take credit himself for his own entelect. All scriptures must be explained to harmonize with each other.
Whosoever : pronoun; possessive whose·so·ev·er;objective whom·so·ev·er.
= whoever; 1.) whatever person:
and......Thank you for the questions.
1 Corin 2:14....... LITERALLY.....The natural man is the person who is not yet born again. It is the unbeliever.
But, it can be also this... in the born again....>"the mind of the Flesh"........This is the carnal mind or the natural mind.
Paul teaches this mind as "the natural man receives not the things of God, as they are Spiritually discerned""". This is a born again person who is trying to understand the things of God, logically, and analytically, which is the natural mind, and this is a fail, because the things of God are "spirit and truth", and Jesus said that when you approach God's word or Spiritual understanding with the natural mind then your "flesh profiteth NOTHING">.
IN the NT, Paul teaches us to "rightly divide" the word, so that is by Spiritually discerning it. And so, to wrongly divide it, would be to use the natural mind, to try to understand it based on logic as if you are reading a dictionary or a encyclopedia or novel.
Isaiah 63:11.. That verse is interesting, as is David pleading...."dont take your holy spirit from me"..
So, this one is going to be difficult for you to SEE......, as you have mentally locked that verse into the same situation as found in the NT when a person is born again, and that is not the same..
They are not the same.....
In the OT, you have this situation.....>""""and the word of God CAME to a Prophet"""". And you have what is called the "presence".
So, this is a heavenly anointing that comes and goes, on a prophet, or upon a King, or others, in the OT.
This is why David knew that God could take this anointing from Him.
In the NT, we learn that Jesus said......Go to Pentecost and wait for the Holy Spirit. (Comforter).
This shows that the Holy Spirit was not in anyone, as He was going to be starting at PENTECOST, .. when they BELIEVED in Messiah and were FILLED.
So, in the OT< you have a anointing and a presence, that came and went.
In the NT, you have the actual Spirit of God, given at Pentecost.......that comes to live in all the born again and it is "sealed inside them".
This is "Christ in you", and you being "in Christ", if you are born again, and not just water baptized.
This is to become "the temple OF the HOLY Spirit".
= whoever; 1.) whatever person:
and......Thank you for the questions.
1 Corin 2:14....... LITERALLY.....The natural man is the person who is not yet born again. It is the unbeliever.
But, it can be also this... in the born again....>"the mind of the Flesh"........This is the carnal mind or the natural mind.
Paul teaches this mind as "the natural man receives not the things of God, as they are Spiritually discerned""". This is a born again person who is trying to understand the things of God, logically, and analytically, which is the natural mind, and this is a fail, because the things of God are "spirit and truth", and Jesus said that when you approach God's word or Spiritual understanding with the natural mind then your "flesh profiteth NOTHING">.
IN the NT, Paul teaches us to "rightly divide" the word, so that is by Spiritually discerning it. And so, to wrongly divide it, would be to use the natural mind, to try to understand it based on logic as if you are reading a dictionary or a encyclopedia or novel.
Isaiah 63:11.. That verse is interesting, as is David pleading...."dont take your holy spirit from me"..
So, this one is going to be difficult for you to SEE......, as you have mentally locked that verse into the same situation as found in the NT when a person is born again, and that is not the same..
They are not the same.....
In the OT, you have this situation.....>""""and the word of God CAME to a Prophet"""". And you have what is called the "presence".
So, this is a heavenly anointing that comes and goes, on a prophet, or upon a King, or others, in the OT.
This is why David knew that God could take this anointing from Him.
In the NT, we learn that Jesus said......Go to Pentecost and wait for the Holy Spirit. (Comforter).
This shows that the Holy Spirit was not in anyone, as He was going to be starting at PENTECOST, .. when they BELIEVED in Messiah and were FILLED.
So, in the OT< you have a anointing and a presence, that came and went.
In the NT, you have the actual Spirit of God, given at Pentecost.......that comes to live in all the born again and it is "sealed inside them".
This is "Christ in you", and you being "in Christ", if you are born again, and not just water baptized.
This is to become "the temple OF the HOLY Spirit".
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It’s so sad to see people who claim to be Christians, openly rejecting the words of Jesus Christ.
We who are born again will be like the angels, if we attain to the resurrection of the dead in Christ; being sons of the resurrection.
Words of Christ in red —
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36
- But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead
- for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
JPT
I said that you waste time worrying about "angels", and you respond that im rejecting the word of Christ.
So, where does "Christ" tell me to put teaching emphasis or personal obsession on "Angels"?
Wake up..
So, as i said, you are obsessing.
My advice ? Start obsessing on the CROSS of Christ.
Thats the place to obsess.
So, where does "Christ" tell me to put teaching emphasis or personal obsession on "Angels"?
Wake up..
So, as i said, you are obsessing.
My advice ? Start obsessing on the CROSS of Christ.
Thats the place to obsess.
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Hmmm, respectfully, I disagree, awelight.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit does not write the law of salvation through Christ upon the hearts of those saved/born again
with a knowledge of the law of sin and death?
As you know, the verses in Hebrews were originally made by God in the book of Jerimiah
[Jer 31:31-34 KJV]
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The iniquity and the sin of the elect were to be forgiven through Christ's offering on the cross.
[Heb 12:22-24 KJV]
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
they "are come", have already been "made perfect", through Jesus, and to Jesus, they have already come, being under the "new covenant"
As to whether Jews will be saved because they are Jews (if that is what you are saying), it would be an interesting discussion to have. Personally, I think the Jews stand on the same spiritual ground regarding salvation as everyone else does - that God elected certain
to salvation on an individual by individual basis, and not because of any human linage.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit does not write the law of salvation through Christ upon the hearts of those saved/born again
with a knowledge of the law of sin and death?
As you know, the verses in Hebrews were originally made by God in the book of Jerimiah
[Jer 31:31-34 KJV]
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The iniquity and the sin of the elect were to be forgiven through Christ's offering on the cross.
[Heb 12:22-24 KJV]
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
they "are come", have already been "made perfect", through Jesus, and to Jesus, they have already come, being under the "new covenant"
As to whether Jews will be saved because they are Jews (if that is what you are saying), it would be an interesting discussion to have. Personally, I think the Jews stand on the same spiritual ground regarding salvation as everyone else does - that God elected certain
to salvation on an individual by individual basis, and not because of any human linage.
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Amen And AMEN!:
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in THE CROSS Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, By Whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." (Galatians 6:14 KJB!)
God's Simple Will!
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in THE CROSS Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, By Whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." (Galatians 6:14 KJB!)
God's Simple Will!
Your question, while I appreciate it, can be answered in a few verses, verses I believe you already know. Don't think about these from a Temporal point of view but from the Eternal point of view.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
Eph 1:5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
Do you see, the points highlighted in red, as having taken place in Eternity or are they Temporal? If you believe, as you seem to, in Election and Predestination - then you know these things are Eternal. He blessed us (the Elect) with every spiritual blessing IN Christ. When? Before the foundation of the world. He Elected us, not in some kind of general election, but an Election that was IN Christ. Having placed us as adopted sons, through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ for Himself. Not the completed work in time but the surety of it from Eternity. For the express purpose, that we should be to the praise and glory of His Beloved Son, which the Father freely poured out on us in Christ. This was all a done deal in the mind of God. The Elect were blessed, chosen, and adopted out of the good pleasure of His will, all before any of the Elect were ever born. These things do not happen because we believe - rather, we believe because of these things.
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
It is the Father's Grace that has Justified the Elect, based upon the redemption provided by His Son. This again, is based on the Surety of Christ's faithfulness to His Father's will. When Christ came and offered Himself for the Elect - He did not come to Prove Himself to the Father, He came to give proof before men, that He was acceptable to the Father. His Father being God, and His Son being God, never needed proof, that God would satisfy God's Holy Law. However, men needed the proof, that Jesus Christ was everything He said He was.
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Going back to Ephesians 1:4 - there was never a time when the Elect were not IN Christ Jesus. While this verse has a temporal application, it is not truly a Temporal statement but a statement of fact. Paul was not saying, that for those that ARE IN - no condemnation (while that would be true) - but for the rest yet to come, well... will have to wait and see. He was stating a hard, undeniable fact, that all of God's Elect are not under condemnation. Later in chapter 8, Paul explains God's election from Eternity and further narrows his argument in chapter 9.
These are just a few. Hope that answers your question. If not ask away.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
Eph 1:5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
Do you see, the points highlighted in red, as having taken place in Eternity or are they Temporal? If you believe, as you seem to, in Election and Predestination - then you know these things are Eternal. He blessed us (the Elect) with every spiritual blessing IN Christ. When? Before the foundation of the world. He Elected us, not in some kind of general election, but an Election that was IN Christ. Having placed us as adopted sons, through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ for Himself. Not the completed work in time but the surety of it from Eternity. For the express purpose, that we should be to the praise and glory of His Beloved Son, which the Father freely poured out on us in Christ. This was all a done deal in the mind of God. The Elect were blessed, chosen, and adopted out of the good pleasure of His will, all before any of the Elect were ever born. These things do not happen because we believe - rather, we believe because of these things.
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
It is the Father's Grace that has Justified the Elect, based upon the redemption provided by His Son. This again, is based on the Surety of Christ's faithfulness to His Father's will. When Christ came and offered Himself for the Elect - He did not come to Prove Himself to the Father, He came to give proof before men, that He was acceptable to the Father. His Father being God, and His Son being God, never needed proof, that God would satisfy God's Holy Law. However, men needed the proof, that Jesus Christ was everything He said He was.
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Going back to Ephesians 1:4 - there was never a time when the Elect were not IN Christ Jesus. While this verse has a temporal application, it is not truly a Temporal statement but a statement of fact. Paul was not saying, that for those that ARE IN - no condemnation (while that would be true) - but for the rest yet to come, well... will have to wait and see. He was stating a hard, undeniable fact, that all of God's Elect are not under condemnation. Later in chapter 8, Paul explains God's election from Eternity and further narrows his argument in chapter 9.
These are just a few. Hope that answers your question. If not ask away.
Your responses have begun to take on a very defensive tone. When one is concerned with defending themselves, they stop listening. I am not concerned with defending myself. I am only concerned with handling the Word of God correctly. After all, we, the Elect, will have to answer for every wrong thing we place upon the foundation. Let God be True and every man a liar.
Perhaps you are tired as well.
Perhaps you are tired as well.
As a PS to the previous post. Please give close attention to the following statement from that article.
The word is not the begetting principle itself, but only that by which it works: the vehicle of the mysterious germinating power. It is because the Spirit of God accompanies it that the word carries in it the germ of life.
So he says, the word has nothing to do with the actual new birth. He goes onto say: -the Word is by which it works. I would say, instead, the Word is it's object. The Word/Jesus Christ is what the new birth points too. The new birth springs into action because this new birth is accompanied by the Spirit. The Word plants the seed and the Holy Spirit waters.
The word is not the begetting principle itself, but only that by which it works: the vehicle of the mysterious germinating power. It is because the Spirit of God accompanies it that the word carries in it the germ of life.
So he says, the word has nothing to do with the actual new birth. He goes onto say: -the Word is by which it works. I would say, instead, the Word is it's object. The Word/Jesus Christ is what the new birth points too. The new birth springs into action because this new birth is accompanied by the Spirit. The Word plants the seed and the Holy Spirit waters.