Predestination.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
based on 'seeing' the Son , believing in him , recieve ever lasting life and being raised up on the last day ? So are we predestined to this taking place ?
It is gods will corrects.

did god just make up this will or was it not since before time began?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#22
One is not adopted until they are saved.

my adoption is complete, isn’t yours?
what do you make of Romans 8 .23 ?
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. This verse is saying we are waiting for the Adoption. And that this future adoption is the redemption of the body .
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#23
whats your take on the meaning of predestination in the verses its mentioned ?
My perspective is that we respond after we are preached the gospel

Prior to that, we were on the road to hell

That is understanding based on living in the time dimension

But in God point of view, he is outside time, he is able to know, the moment we were born, that we would accept him. He could see ahead of time

Thus, from his point of view, we were predestined to be saved the moment we were born
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#24
what do you make of Romans 8 .23 ?
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
So I am not a son now?

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

1 John 3: 1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

need I find more
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#25
All of the things we are predestined to are based on the fact we are saved.

non of them are possible without salvation

predestination is based on the gospel, whoever calls on the name of the lord will be saved,

whether God knew who would do it (forknowledge) or god just predestined based on who would recieve the gospel But did not know them individually before time began, it still deals with the fact everyone who will enter Heaven was predestined before time began
Language is given by God to transmit ideas. It has rules to make the ideas transmitted clear and understandable. In every use of the word "predestinated", God POINTEDLY did not use "salvation", and POINTEDLY used other concepts. You can only work with this. Your extrapolation is not allowed. If you do extrapolate, you give another idea that was not given by God. Let me give an example;

Jesus took the form of a Serpent in John 12:32. Extrapolation says then that Jesus is a Serpent. But He is not. The story is in Numbers 21, and the BRASS modifies the nature of the serpent. Jesus took sin a nd sins upon Himself to JUDGE them, not to be partaker of them. Extrapolation will lead to mischief.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#26
Predestination is about time

We are born in the time dimension so it will always be hard for us to understand how God views time

It’s like asking a fish to explain what water is
Maybe, but I believe God is working within the time frame He has created.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,824
2,827
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#27
So I am not a son now?

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

1 John 3: 1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

need I find more
The Spirit of adoption guarantees our future adoption. It is so certain that even now we can be called sons of God.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#28
I believe Ephesians 1.5 is predestined to the Adoption . which is explained in Rom 8.23 as the future redemption of the body ( glorification)
Thank you for your various postings. I agree with you in the main. The resurrection is guaranteed by the Spirit in us now. This resurrection is the "adoption of our body" which was "purchased" on Golgotha. But, going further, the "adoption of sons" is a legal standing that makes us eligible to be HEIRS - and HEIRS with Christ for whatever He INHERITS (Rom.8:17, Gal.4:7, Eph.3:6).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
Language is given by God to transmit ideas. It has rules to make the ideas transmitted clear and understandable. In every use of the word "predestinated", God POINTEDLY did not use "salvation", and POINTEDLY used other concepts. You can only work with this. Your extrapolation is not allowed. If you do extrapolate, you give another idea that was not given by God. Let me give an example;

Jesus took the form of a Serpent in John 12:32. Extrapolation says then that Jesus is a Serpent. But He is not. The story is in Numbers 21, and the BRASS modifies the nature of the serpent. Jesus took sin a nd sins upon Himself to JUDGE them, not to be partaker of them. Extrapolation will lead to mischief.
Show me a person who will recieve all those things who is not saved

then I will follow your reasoning
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#30
based on 'seeing' the Son , believing in him , recieve ever lasting life and being raised up on the last day ? So are we predestined to this taking place ?
Only if you choose Life.

God has set two roads in front of us....Life and Death.

God’s Will is that we would choose Life but, the choice is ours.

The two Roads are predestined - their ends are definite.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
Only if you choose Life.

God has set two roads in front of us....Life and Death.

God’s Will is that we would choose Life but, the choice is ours.

The two Roads are predestined - their ends are definite.
It’s so easy, why do people make it difficult
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#32
Show me a person who will recieve all those things who is not saved

then I will follow your reasoning
I think that the onus is on you to show, by plain language, IN SCRIPTURE, that salvation is predestined. I gave a number of verses with the word "predestinated" and they made the predestination for other things. God did not make a mistake. Nowhere is "salvation" predestined in the Bible. "Foreknowledge" - yes. "Predestination" - NO.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
The Spirit of adoption guarantees our future adoption. It is so certain that even now we can be called sons of God.
I am a part of Gods family

i did not make myself a part. I was adopted into that family

the final act of adoption will be revealed at my ressurection
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,289
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#34
It’s so easy, why do people make it difficult
This is when I like to roll my eyes....:rolleyes:.........lol! :giggle::love:(y)

Come on, everyone let’s choose Life and love God and each other, put all our trust and confidence in Jesus Christ to save us!

It really infuriated Satan and our Father God smiles really big!!!:love:(y)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
I think that the onus is on you to show, by plain language, IN SCRIPTURE, that salvation is predestined. I gave a number of verses with the word "predestinated" and they made the predestination for other things. God did not make a mistake. Nowhere is "salvation" predestined in the Bible. "Foreknowledge" - yes. "Predestination" - NO.
No, the onus is on you to show me where any of those people were not saved
remember, this is before time began, and Paul said us so we individually where chosen

if I am predestined to those things, and hose things are impossible without salvation, then it would be impossible to be predestined apart from salvation .
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,289
3,318
113
#36
what do you make of Romans 8 .23 ?
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. This verse is saying we are waiting for the Adoption. And that this future adoption is the redemption of the body .
No, redemption of the body is resurrection.

We’re already adopted IN CHRIST -everything we receive is IN CHRIST.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,824
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#37
I am a part of Gods family

i did not make myself a part. I was adopted into that family

the final act of adoption will be revealed at my ressurection
You’re adoption was guaranteed when you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
You’re adoption was guaranteed when you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
It was guaranteed before time began, as I was predestined to be conformed to his image as an adopted child

i did not surprise god by believing, he knew it before I was born