Predestination.

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,435
2,991
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#42
where do you Not see it

is God omniscient or not?
According to the verse, predestination has to do with the foreknowledge of God.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

When does God know you as a Son?

Galatians 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Now that God knows you as a son, stop placing yourselves back under the bondage of the law.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Once you believe on His name, you receive power to become a son of God. God now knows you as a son.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
According to the verse, predestination has to do with the foreknowledge of God.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

When does God know you as a Son?

Galatians 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Now that God knows you as a son, stop placing yourselves back under the bondage of the law.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Once you believe on His name, you receive power to become a son of God. God now knows you as a son.
Yep forknowledge, he knew before time began

those things which you posted,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Nowhere does it say that. God knows you when you believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. That’s Bible!
Yet he predestined me to be conformed to his image before time began

how can he predestined me if he did not know me
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,435
2,991
113
#47
Yet he predestined me to be conformed to his image before time began

how can he predestined me if he did not know me
God doesn’t predestine you until you’re in Christ. Once in Christ, your destination is set. Your not there yet. It is future, hence pre...destination.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
God doesn’t predestine you until you’re in Christ. Once in Christ, your destination is set. Your not there yet. It is future, hence pre...destination.
Before time began. That is what was said

I know this. We may not know who is right until we are in heaven. But to use this to try to discredit or change a Calvinist mind. Your waiting your time
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,435
2,991
113
#49
Before time began. That is what was said

I know this. We may not know who is right until we are in heaven. But to use this to try to discredit or change a Calvinist mind. Your waiting your time
Where does it say before time began? I quoted the passage.

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
Where does it say before time began? I quoted the passage.

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God
I really get sick of playing your games John

We are said to be predestined before time began

That is the topic. Now please stop twisting things

As someone said there is enough Calvinist threads already I am out
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,435
2,991
113
#51
I really get sick of playing your games John

We are said to be predestined before time began

That is the topic. Now please stop twisting things

As someone said there is enough Calvinist threads already I am out
All I’m asking is where is that in Scripture? Shouldn't you be able to point to plain Scripture? One verse? Before time began?
 
Jul 6, 2020
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#54
Is Predestination existing saints to adoption/glorification, or sinners to conversion ?
I do take a position on this, but I'm sure of a good discussion which will hopefully include ' Eternal security ' assurance for the believer order of salvation and the components of salvation. ( ie : Apoption , calling , election , justification and the new birth )
AHHHH Oh Ok.
God predestined us all in creation to one or the other.
He did this in foreknowledge, knowing the outcome.
He predestined all those who would choose life to life and all those who would choose death to death.
By the simple fact of creating them.

Free will and predestination two sides of the same coin called creation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#55
AHHHH Oh Ok.
God predestined us all in creation to one or the other.
He did this in foreknowledge, knowing the outcome.
He predestined all those who would choose life to life and all those who would choose death to death.
By the simple fact of creating them.

Free will and predestination two sides of the same coin called creation.
Would you say that God chose ahead of time a destination ? of
My perspective is that we respond after we are preached the gospel

Prior to that, we were on the road to hell

That is understanding based on living in the time dimension

But in God point of view, he is outside time, he is able to know, the moment we were born, that we would accept him. He could see ahead of time

Thus, from his point of view, we were predestined to be saved the moment we were born
Does his knowledge determine the outcome for the sinner ? or are you simply saying he has knowledge of all things ? Does He act upon his knowledge of foreseeing something in us . like looking down the corridors of time seeing we would believe and arranges things in response ?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#56
Does his knowledge determine the outcome for the sinner ? or are you simply saying he has knowledge of all things ? Does He act upon his knowledge of foreseeing something in us . like looking down the corridors of time seeing we would believe and arranges things in response ?
As I have stated in my first post, it is be almost impossible for us to imagine how his omniscience can still co-exist with free will in mankind.

We are living in the time dimension so its like asking a fish to explain what water is.

Best I could try is this, imagine your complete lifespan laying in front of him.

From God's point of view, your past, present and future are all coexisting at the same time, you can think of 3 wheels spinning on a long string.

Because he is outside time, he can see you doing something in the future, as he can see your past, and your present. The moment your future self does something, that knowledge become present for him.

But that does not mean he cause you to do it, he watches you do it. But he knows immediately, in the present, what your future self did.

It is tough I know, I myself will only fully understand how is this like, in heaven.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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#57
Would you say that God chose ahead of time a destination
You mean like using His GPS :LOL:
The bible teaches you choose in one case
Then it teaches God chose in another.
If both have to be true the questions become how do you choose and how did God choose.
I see no other option that satisfies both without denying one or the other.
It not like you have free will and then Jesus forces himself on you. What kind of love would that be?
 
Jul 20, 2019
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#58
Here is my testimony and I hope it helps with this topic. One day I was walking to the primary school I attended, I would have been around 10 years old. I was debating within myself what I wanted to do when I grew up. The first word that came to was priest. A soon as I uttered the word priest, a feeling like warm water was sent over, then a sort of energy. From that moment forward life changed, It is to long a story to go into here, but suffice to say I can testify that he indeed chooses people before they were even born. We have no say in the matter. Not that I wouldn't have it any other way! However I was lead astray by a much older woman much later in life, but thats also a very long story not to be posted here. So my perception is there is the chosen few, and those who choose to follow God and allow Jesus to be there lord and saviour. Big difference between the two.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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#59
As I have stated in my first post, it is be almost impossible for us to imagine how his omniscience can still co-exist with free will in mankind.
Its simple.
An appeal to the unknowable is not an argument.
Oh and God made himself known.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#60
Its simple.
An appeal to the unknowable is not an argument.
Oh and God made himself known.
How would you argue that free will and omniscience can co exist?