Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

[cv5]

Jesus told the experts in the scripture that they should have understood that they were watching prophecy be fulfilled. He told Nicodemus, 'you don't know these things?' and He told John, look at the signs, you should understand who I AM because those things were fulfilling prophecy.

So my point is I do not agree prophecy is 'only' meant to be understood long after it is realized. The wise ought to understand it as it is being fulfilled, if not before

Absolutely correct Sir.
(Luke 19:44)
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[Truth7t7]

As eternally grateful said it is good but not perfect. To read the word of God in it's actual language it is written open it up far more than you can imgaine. The original hebrew text is not like any other language there is such meaning in every letter symbol number that is assigned to each letter and word that cannot be truly copied.
If I was able to I would study and lern the hebrew language just for this

Perhaps you need to study the scholars that brought the 1611 AKJVto the world, no Hebrew education needed, they performed a fantastic work, brilliant scholars.

 

[Blain]

Perhaps you need to study the scholars that brought the 1611 AKJVto the world, no Hebrew education needed, they performed a fantastic work, brilliant scholars.

Well I know there are several different kjv but I would have to ask my friend Angela about it first she is fluent in hebrew and greek

 

[Dave-L]

Assuming that you are also born again what exactly do you see as manifestations of this spiritual kingdom? Does everyone see the same thing? Or does this manifestation just consist of a warm fuzzy feeling inside? Please elaborate.

Possibly your attitude hinders your perception of it. Look at it this way. Daniel said it would come when it did. In the time of the Roman Empire. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom saying it arrived. And he defined it in the gospels. The blind still looked for the physical millennial kingdom of the Pharisees. But the born again began seeing the spiritual kingdom taking shape. Peter preached the full gospel of the Kingdom at Pentecost showing both the kingdom and the salvation aspects related to it. Read Peter's sermon and it will help to see the reality of it. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/peter-and-the-gospel-of-the-kingdom.192413/

 

[Dave-L]

This is when I know your Doctrine is baloney and full of holes when trying to use the Pharisee card in the year 2020 AD!

Those Jews, not the Hebrews before them where the Tanakh literally comes from, did indeed deny God. They denied God so much that the last inspired Holy Spirit writing happened 525 years before Christ. There was a great void for half a thousand years over the last remnants sin before Christ showed up. So, for you to push 3500 years of God dealing with the Hebrew People and 2,000 years of Inspired Holy Spirit writing into a single point of view reveals your lack of knowledge!

If anyone is a Pharisee, it would be YOU!

How can I trust your grasp of Hebrew when I cannot trust the Pharisee's grasp? Do you believe them over Jesus who used the LXX?

 

[garee]

There are no more prophets...only

For the testimony of JESUS...IS...THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

Every prophet up until the time of JESUS, prophecied in hidden signs and representations of CHRIST...and all the prophecies are fulfilled in JESUS...

After that, HE made disciples, and Apostles whom HE sent to preach THE GOSPEL, by expounding the scriptures to show that JESUS was the ONE prophecied throughout the WORD OF TRUTH...

But, there is nothing that needs to be added to the story of our salvation in by and through JESUS...

Yes, there are things that have not yet come to pass, but those things we know already, will, at some time, come to pass..

We are not to go beyond what is written....

I would offer.

His apostles are sent with the abiding Word of the father just like Abel the first recorded martyr. I think that can be seen in setting up the foundation of the first born (born again parable) the Holy Spirit used "Cain and Abel" in the same way as with "Esau and Jacob" to represent the gospel as a living hope . In Adam our first birth all die. In the second Adam, Christ all that are given faith to hear God not seen live.

All believers are considered prophets, apostles as messengers (angels) sent with the living word of another. .

 

[garee]

The whole of the BIBLE is the TESTIMONY of JESUS
The Law and the Prophets spoke of and pointed us to HIM

I would agree. The law and or with the prophets. One perfect law.

The law as to the letter testified to the bodies of death (mankind) suffering unto death the penalty of sin . . . revealed in Romans 1 as the wrath of God, revealed from heaven a sign to the whole world.

The prophets as apostles ; "ones sent with the law" .They were moved by the unseen power of the Spirit of Christ. "The law of faith"

The law and prophets. Two that make one perfect work. . "Just and justifier"

Just as Moses is used the signify the law seen ,(the letter death) Elijah and all the other prophets signify the work of the Spirit the unseen power needed for believers to rise on the last day. .

Two witnesses to provide the one perfect witnesses. Apart from each other no life.

If men refuse to hear and believe the perfect witness .Then neither would they believe if they saw the Son of man arise.

Faith does not come by seeing with the witness of men. Faithless.

Luke 1:17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

I would think the same Spirit we have in these earthen bodies of death in a living hope of turning us towards him our confidence. .

Philippians 1 King James Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[cv5]

Possibly your attitude hinders your perception of it. Look at it this way. Daniel said it would come when it did. In the time of the Roman Empire. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom saying it arrived. And he defined it in the gospels. The blind still looked for the physical millennial kingdom of the Pharisees. But the born again began seeing the spiritual kingdom taking shape. Peter preached the full gospel of the Kingdom at Pentecost showing both the kingdom and the salvation aspects related to it. Read Peter's sermon and it will help to see the reality of it. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/peter-and-the-gospel-of-the-kingdom.192413/

What rubbish you speak.
(Acts 1:6-7)
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Those two verses alone nullify everything that you spoken in this thread!

 

[Dave-L]

What rubbish you speak.
(Acts 1:6-7)
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Those two verses alone nullify everything that you spoken in this thread!

The Resurrection is the restoration of Israel on the last day. (The church IS Israel) You and the Pharisees think it happens before then and is physical.

 

[miknik5]

I would offer.

His apostles are sent with the abiding Word of the father just like Abel the first recorded martyr. I think that can be seen in setting up the foundation of the first born (born again parable) the Holy Spirit used "Cain and Abel" in the same way as with "Esau and Jacob" to represent the gospel as a living hope . In Adam our first birth all die. In the second Adam, Christ all that are given faith to hear God not seen live.

All believers are considered prophets, apostles as messengers (angels) sent with the living word of another. .

They are called HIS WITNESSES...and they testify as witnesses by THAT WITNESS in them...

JESUS called them many things...friend, disciple, witness, servant, friend, prophet....but prophet only in the sense that they will be testifying of ONE THING only....the GOSPEL...and will be killed because of that testimony.....and because of this, CHRIST will avenge the blood of every prophet from Abel to Zechariah...

But, there are no prophets in the sense that NO ONE and NOTHING needs to be added to the STORY of our SALVATION in, by and through JESUS...

TO THE TESTIMONY and to THE INSTRUCTION
For the TESTIMONY of JESUS...IS...THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY...

What needs to be added?

GOD did not overlook anything...and nothing will overshadow what has been provided...

 

[cv5]

The Resurrection is the restoration of Israel on the last day. (The church IS Israel) You and the Pharisees think it happens before then and is physical.

That is a contradiction of what you've stated all along.
You're just making this up as you go along. What rubbish.

 

[Dave-L]

That is a contradiction of what you've stated all along.
You're just making this up as you go along. What rubbish.

You believe like the Pharisees and will not understand until you believe what Jesus says instead.

 

[miknik5]

All believers are considered WITNESSES....

 

[garee]

What rubbish you speak.
(Acts 1:6-7)
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Those two verses alone nullify everything that you spoken in this thread!

Those two verses establish the signified understanding of a "thousand years" used in the parable found in Revelation 20 .

No sign was given. The first century reformation began its work of restoring. . . .signifying by the renting of the veil the beginning of these last days a unknown period .God wants us to walk by faith. Not of those of the number. (dangerous). ..

Jesus said its a evil generation (no faith) that seeks after a sign as some sort of living hope or wonderment. None was given

Then the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, the bride of Christ whose name the father changed to a more befitting name that represents all the nation of the world as his bride.. . Christian. on the last day the kingdoms of this world will become His in the new.

 

[Dino246]

No sign was given. The first century reformation began its work of restoring. . . .signifying by the renting of the veil

You just contradicted yourself.

Jesus said its a evil generation (no faith) that seeks after a sign as some sort of living hope or wonderment. None was given

That's incorrect. The sign of Jonah was given, as Jesus said it would be.

 

[biker]

How can I trust your grasp of Hebrew when I cannot trust the Pharisee's grasp? Do you believe them over Jesus who used the LXX?

The sect of Pharisee was not a group all throughout the Hebrew existence. Many of those groups formed during the time of the Minor Prophets. So for you to think I follow something not inspired by the Holy Spirit by tossing out genres you clearly have no grasp of reveals your viewpoint and argument is weak. With the amount of presumption you attack others with clarifies the level of defeat you currently live in your walk in God. You do not scream knowledge and confidence in anything you post, you scream to be the loudest and hope we listen!

 

[CS1]

Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

People assume prophecy is to foretell the future. A means to present history in advance. But this is not what Jesus says. Prophecy is so we can look back in history and see God’s hand in bringing an obscure event to pass.

Jesus said; “I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe” (John 14:29). And again, “From henceforth I tell you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he” (John 13:19)

Most of the prophecies about the coming of Christ were so vague, we could never base a detailed forecast on them until after fulfilled. John the Baptist stands out having said to be Elijah. Jesus stands out when said to be the Temple of God. Indeed, most today missed the Kingdom of God in the times of the Roman Empire thinking it would be physical instead of spiritual. And agree with the Pharisees that it is yet future and physical.

Robert Whitelaw says: When we analyze all these cases [of fulfilled prophecies], we find that the fulfillments may be classified into five categories as follows:

(a) Natural events, fulfilled as described by the writer; thirteen cases.

(b) Natural events, but not fulfilled exactly as described or foreseen; eleven cases.

(c) Fulfilled by events both natural and spiritual, but never exactly as described or likely foreseen: sixteen cases.

(d) Fulfilled by events in the spiritual realm only, but not as described or likely foreseen: forty-three cases.

(e) Fulfillments cited in the N. T. as the general tenor of ‘, what the prophets have said”, and always fulfilled by events in the spiritual realm: eleven cases.

Robert Whitelaw. THE GOSPEL MILLENNIUM and Obedience to Scripture.

So based on this it is hard to trust what we think a prophetic passage says until after God makes it clear by fulfilling it.

E.J. Young says; Now, it is contrary to the nature and genius of prophecy to reveal the future as detailed history. In all prophecy there is an element of obscurity and perhaps even of ambiguity. The Lord had distinctly said that He would speak to the prophets in a manner less clear and direct than that in which He would speak to Moses His Servant (Num. 12:1–8). With the prophets He would speak in dreams and visions and—so it would seem—in dark and enigmatic sayings. In revelations that were given as visions, therefore, we should expect an abundance of imagery and symbolism. There are many instances of such revelation in the prophetical books (e. g., Isa. 24–27; Joel 3:9–17; Zech. 14; Ps. 2; Amos 7–9).

Young, E. J. (1980). The Prophecy of Daniel: A Commentary (p. 21). Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

Irenaeus of Lyons: “It is … more certain, and less hazardous to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for names that may present themselves.”

This is an interesting opinion. because for it to be true, well you have to rip out the pages of Isiah 53 and a host of many other prophetic writings. Prophecy actually does two things

1. Prophecy Foretells
2. Prophecy forth tells

One is for the present now time application, at the time it was said to Edify, the other was to bring understanding to what will happen.
You need to do a studied on Fulfillment

 

[Dave-L]

This is an interesting opinion. because for it to be true, well you have to rip out the pages of Isiah 53 and a host of many other prophetic writings. Prophecy actually does two things

1. Prophecy Foretells
2. Prophecy forth tells

One is for the present now time application, at the time it was said to Edify, the other was to bring understanding to what will happen.
You need to do a studied on Fulfillment

How would you understand any of Isaiah until after fulfillment? The Jews still think they are the subject of Isaiah 53.

 

[Dave-L]

The sect of Pharisee was not a group all throughout the Hebrew existence. Many of those groups formed during the time of the Minor Prophets. So for you to think I follow something not inspired by the Holy Spirit by tossing out genres you clearly have no grasp of reveals your viewpoint and argument is weak. With the amount of presumption you attack others with clarifies the level of defeat you currently live in your walk in God. You do not scream knowledge and confidence in anything you post, you scream to be the loudest and hope we listen!

So nobody but you can understand the scripture, not even Jesus and the Church because they used a translation?

 

[biker]

So nobody but you can understand the scripture, not even Jesus and the Church because they used a translation?

You clearly don't even understand Jesus.

Your view of the Trinity is persons, solely based upon a CREED, not upon the Hebrew/Aramaic/original translated Greek.

Jesus said, speaking of the Father, GOD, is a SPIRIT!

If Jesus the WORD was begat from the Father (which is GOD and SPIRIT), makes the WORD also SPIRIT. Hence the WORD was made/manifested into flesh (meaning, the WORD before and during the begatting was SPIRIT before ever becoming flesh).

And we also know the Father = God and is SPIRIT begat His WISDOM (Holy Spirit).

Jesus literally tells us that the Divinity representing GOD is SPIRIT!

But you believe from a PAGAN CREED they are Persons!


You cannot even define the Divinity properly and yet you try to question my knowledge when I put yours into check!