Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

[Truth7t7]

What about the "Historicist" viewpoint... some of whom believe Matt24's "GREAT tribulation" STARTED in the first century and ENDS at His Second Coming to the earth (lasting that ENTIRE spans of time).



[note to the readers: I disagree with the Historicist viewpoint, for reasons I've listed in past posts]

The future abomination of desolation causes the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"Ethnic Jews" They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Perhaps your emphasis should have been on v.7,

"Nor because they are seed of Abraham are all children. Rather, "In Isaac your offspring will be named."

Recall who else was born to him?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The future abomination of desolation causes the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21

I agree that it is "future" (I did mention that *I* do not agree with the "Historicist" viewpoint... I'm merely pointing out that some Historicists, who would reject the "Preterist" viewpoint, nevertheless see the fulfillment of Matt24 as SPANNING some 2000 yrs. [I do not.] And one of the REASONS WHY they see it this way, is because they do not DISTINGUISH between the TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" instances which are told about in the Olivet Discourse... one in the 70ad events, the other *far-future* [even "future" to "our Rapture"])

 

[CS1]

I havent witnessed this with Dave in the week I've been on forums.

However I have witnessed Mob rule against him.

Mob rule? Hmmm Is disagreeing with ones opinion mob rule? Even if there is more than one?

 

[CS1]

It's a fact that those who believe any part of Matthew 24 in The Olivet Discourse being fulfilled in the 1st century as being "Preterist" In their eschatology.

All Matt 24, full preterist

Part Matt 24, partial preterist

You might not like a label, but your belief carrys one.

NO sir, the word Preterist is one who holds to all the prophecies of the End time is fulfilled. Not part of it, not smidgin. They hold all being fulfilled. And it is not true those who believe in any part as fulfilled are partly Preterist.

I believe the all Prophecies have a Forth telling and foretelling IF the context of the whole Bible is seen only in that writing .

Matthew 24 has Parallel Scriptures in the Old Testament and New. Your opinion as to what you say I am is wrong.

Facts change Truth does not. Truth is higher form than a fact.

 

[cv5]

I agree that it is "future" (I did mention that *I* do not agree with the "Historicist" viewpoint... I'm merely pointing out that some Historicists, who would reject the "Preterist" viewpoint, nevertheless see the fulfillment of Matt24 as SPANNING some 2000 yrs. [I do not.] And one of the REASONS WHY they see it this way, is because they do not DISTINGUISH between the TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" instances which are told about in the Olivet Discourse... one in the 70ad events, the other *far-future* [even "future" to "our Rapture"])

Correct. Many people fail to make that distinction.

 

[garee]

The "what" is clear in the post to which you responded: Matthew 24, verses 15 and 21.

I don't see anything about the false sign as a wonder .70 AD ? What chapter and verse?

When the veil was rent it showed the abomination of desolation was made desolate. That was not 70 AD. The law of reformation was set in stone long before that. That period of time used as a parable to help us learn what it means to walk by faith caused a gospel explosion's. We are still feeling the affect. Some are still criying out to lifeless stones . Even though they understand human are the temple made with the hands or will of God not the hands of corrupted mankind.

Why would any one ever desire a temple like the pagan kingdoms of this world?? Eye candy? Jesus shook it, dust off his feet when he walk out declaring prophesying their house as a abomination of desolation was made void as the place where our father in heaven sits.

The reformation came. The time of tribulation began and continues to this day .One like never before or ever again .

Satan no longer has any power to deceive all the nations using Jewish flesh as a wolf in sheep's clothing. . There was no sign of a few rock falling off by some Roman solder in 70 AD.

Jesus said "it is finished" and that is exactly what he meant. The End of the one time "demonstration" of a work of two performed before the foundation of the world.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree that it is "future" (I did mention that *I* do not agree with the "Historicist" viewpoint... I'm merely pointing out that some Historicists, who would reject the "Preterist" viewpoint, nevertheless see the fulfillment of Matt24 as SPANNING some 2000 yrs. [I do not.] And one of the REASONS WHY they see it this way, is because they do not DISTINGUISH between the TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" instances which are told about in the Olivet Discourse... one in the 70ad events, the other *far-future* [even "future" to "our Rapture"])

I agree 100%, "the flee aspect" destroys the historicist claim of a 2,000 year fulfillment time frame.

 

[Truth7t7]

NO sir, the word Preterist is one who holds to all the prophecies of the End time is fulfilled. Not part of it, not smidgin. They hold all being fulfilled. And it is not true those who believe in any part as fulfilled are partly Preterist.

I believe the all Prophecies have a Forth telling and foretelling IF the context of the whole Bible is seen only in that writing .

Matthew 24 has Parallel Scriptures in the Old Testament and New. Your opinion as to what you say I am is wrong.

Facts change Truth does not. Truth is higher form than a fact.

Wikipedia: Preterism

In the preterist view, the Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it affected only the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Christian preterists believe that the Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
A preterist discussion of the Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. (Preterists apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.)
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15). This can also be found in Luke (Luke 21:20).
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), preterists see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

 

[Truth7t7]

NO sir, the word Preterist is one who holds to all the prophecies of the End time is fulfilled. Not part of it, not smidgin. They hold all being fulfilled. And it is not true those who believe in any part as fulfilled are partly Preterist.

I believe the all Prophecies have a Forth telling and foretelling IF the context of the whole Bible is seen only in that writing .

Matthew 24 has Parallel Scriptures in the Old Testament and New. Your opinion as to what you say I am is wrong.

Facts change Truth does not. Truth is higher form than a fact.

Wikipedia: Preterism

In the preterist view, the Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it affected only the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Christian preterists believe that the Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
A preterist discussion of the Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. (Preterists apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.)
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15). This can also be found in Luke (Luke 21:20).
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), preterists see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

 

[CS1]

Wikipedia: Preterism

In the preterist view, the Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it affected only the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Christian preterists believe that the Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
A preterist discussion of the Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. (Preterists apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.)
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15). This can also be found in Luke (Luke 21:20).
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), preterists see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

were done

 

[Dave-L]

Here's an interesting tidbit for you, Dave-L —

Luke 4:

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave itagain to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Now, go back to Isaiah 61:

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God ...


According to Jesus, the prophecy in Isaiah 61 1-2 was only partially fulfilled.

The day of vengeance of our God —

Talk about rightly dividing God's Word. Jesus started reading the prophecy of Isaiah ... stopped mid-verse (even though we know that back then Scripture was not broken down into chapters/verses). Just shows how closely Jesus stuck to God's Word.

Anyway ... just something for you to think about seeing as how you're so interested in prophecy ...


[p.s. ... not sure you'll read this post cuz it's kinda long ... ]

He was fulfilling the part that pertained. He fulfilled the rest in 70 AD.

 

[Dave-L]

It sounds as though you are calling the disciples "Pharisees," because, as you recall, they were still asking Jesus about the TIMING of the kingdom, in Acts 1... after having already had some "40 days" of His teaching (after His resurrection) on that very Subject... and He does not correct their thinking... He just addresses their question, which had to do with its TIMING, not its NATURE.

Recall, the article I'd posted on that:

[quoting excerpt]

33. It ignores the life-setting of the disciples’ question in Acts 1:6 in the context of their already having had forty days teaching about the very thing they asked about (“the kingdom” – see Acts 1:3). This reflects badly on the clarity of the Risen Lord’s teaching about the kingdom. But the tenacity with which these disciples still clung to literal fulfillments would also prove the validity of #’s 23, 26, 27, 28 & 32 above.

34. This resistance to the clear expectation of the disciples also ignores the question of the disciples, which was about the timing of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, not its nature.

https://sharperiron.org/article/forty-reasons-for-not-reinterpreting-ot-nt-last-twenty

"Forty Reasons for Not Re-Interpreting the OT by the NT: the Last Twenty" by Paul Martin Henebury




____________

See again this vid by him:

The disciples were as blind as anyone until they learned the truth. But, Peter preached the gospel of the kingdom on Pentecost, which by then included the message of the cross.

Replacement Theology? Read this carefully. Several points emerge that disprove replacement theology claims. I.e., it's REMOVAL THEOLOGY. Believing Israel remains. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/removal-theology-not-replacement-theology.190118/

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” Acts 3:22–23 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

Nowhere did I claim I was the only one. You have made that judgement on your own merits.

You claim your Hebrew makes you the man. The Pharisees aced you and look at what it did for them.

 

[Dave-L]

I graduated from the School of Hard Knocks.

I call mine "the Julliard for Singin' the Blues".

 

[Dave-L]

Absolutely nothing happened seven years after Christ's triumphal entry. Or His crucifixion for that matter. Absolutely zero just like your theories.

But, Jesus said “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

I thought that God will create this. In Revelation, an angel told John a bunch of stuff and he wrote it all down. All except, of course, what the 7 Thunders uttered. He was not allowed to record what was said. Apparently, that is currently sealed up too along with some stuff that Daniel was writing down. Also, in Paul's vision he was not allowed to record everything either. Then there is that business with Jesus writing something in the dirt. I'm sure that He was not writing down a shopping list for His mother. Let's see, a loaf a bread, some figs, a pomegranate, and a quart of goat's milk. He didn't put a jug of wine on the list 'cause He will just make that Himself, draw a little water from the well, taste it, and call it good. Based on just the four instances mentioned about sealed prophecy there is still a lot to be learned in regards to the Word of God revealed in prophesy, especially as it pertains to end-time events.

Study Jesus in the gospels before trying to tackle Revelation. The Pharisees ignored him and all who ignore him will agree with them on a physical kingdom not of faith but of sight.

 

[Dave-L]

See what, exactly Dave? Yes, I am born again and have been for 50 years. I don't see squat in regards to this kingdom. About that 70 weeks, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. The last week will occur in the end-time events and as such, there has been no kingdom yet established, either physical, spiritual, or both.

If you are born again, why do you accept the Pharisees over Jesus in this matter?

 

[Dave-L]

FYI living the " Sermon on the Mount." is not a career. FYI Jesus went to school up until the age of possibly 24, as most Jewish males did during that day. WE are to live the Sermon on the Mount each day and guess what, You can have a career by which you live it at also.

You are needing to be more humble. And work on a teachable spirit. You know nothing of the sideline. You attack what you could not do. I think you just gave up on it. FYI many have done so and went back and finished it.

Here is something for you, Learning is a life long process. Diplomas, degrees, certification, and learning. It will happen until you take your last breath. Sermon on the Mount> and what Jesus said is not a check this box and be done it is not a career it is a spiritual walk and lifestyle that you do at home, at work, at school, in your relationship with people.

You have an unfulfilled spirit because you are driven by Legalism not love. it makes you prideful and angry. You need to rethink your biblical understanding.

Living the Sermon is a career. Here's how;

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.” Matthew 6:24–34 (KJV 1900)

Here's my experience in living it as a career.

I began following the Sermon on the Mount as a career in the 1970s after giving up a career that hindered my relationship with Christ. This left me and my wife homeless without any marketable skills.

So it then involved walking through doors the Lord opened. And not losing heart for the doors he closed. I noticed he created jobs where there weren't any and provided good housing we could afford, well below the going rate. Some of the jobs were dead-end unskilled labor that I performed in thanksgiving the best I could do. Over my working years, I did everything from washing dishes to being a factory manager, to selling the best of the best in high priced merchandise. Eventually retiring early from my own pocket. Never missing a day's work even though we had a couple of job closings along the way. Never needing public assistance.

There are some fascinating trials along the way that would tie most people in knots that had little effect on me. Knowing God is my provider and that he never let me down. It was an adventure not making plans but going with the flow having a willingness to try anything that came up.

 

[Dave-L]

not all and what is a Pro?

Personally, you'd have to be crazy for visiting a mental health professional (pro) without a degree or certification.