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Interesting, so Holy Spirit is our teacher. And He teaches precept upon precept. And we are called to grow in the knowledge of our Lord. And you don't think any of those things are revelations? What about when a Pastor teaches from Scripture is that a revelation? I think maybe we're using different terms for revelations here. If you are asking me do I think God is adding to Scripture anything that would contradict it, I would say no. But I will say, He loves to contradict our interpretations because it leads us to asking Him instead of simply trying to figure it out. If you don't see that, read Jesus' words with new eyes, He continually made them question their religious conclusions. Remember when He said you gotta drink my blood and eat my flesh? Or when He said you study the Scriptures because you think in THEM you have eternal life, but they testify of Me? Yeah He said that. Those religious folk thought they were good to go, because they knew their Scriptures, but they didn't know Him at all.
Gifts of the Spirit called prophecy or gifts of the speaker called gibberish? Tongue are a sign for those who rebel prophecy for the believer. There is no outward sign indicating a person is a believer .a changed heart yes. Many churches teach the opposite, that they they are a sign to prove they are a believer, rather than walking by faith according to prophecy.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not" to them that "believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Where does the confusion come in? What happened to walking by faith (the unseen)?
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not" to them that "believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Where does the confusion come in? What happened to walking by faith (the unseen)?
I did not mean to appear arrogant, nor did I claim you have never been energized by the Holy Spirit.
I was specifically responding to your remark ---
If/when the manifestation of kinds of tongues is energized in you by the Holy Spirit, I hope/pray that you do not repeat your statement to God. The manifestation will be energized at a time when it is needful. And if God determines there is a need and energizes the manifestation in response to that need, the believer is to humble him/herself to the leading of the Holy Spirit. To respond in the manner you posted would be folly on the part of the believer.
I hope/pray that you continue to be led by the Holy Spirit and that many mighty works are evidenced in your life to the glory of God. Just do not relegate the manifestation of kinds of tongues as a "distraction". God's workings within the body of Christ are designed to benefit the body, not distract. When God calls on me to speak in tongues, I will gladly do so in service to Him. He is the one Who directs the operation of the manifestation.
I was specifically responding to your remark ---
If/when the manifestation of kinds of tongues is energized in you by the Holy Spirit, I hope/pray that you do not repeat your statement to God. The manifestation will be energized at a time when it is needful. And if God determines there is a need and energizes the manifestation in response to that need, the believer is to humble him/herself to the leading of the Holy Spirit. To respond in the manner you posted would be folly on the part of the believer.
I hope/pray that you continue to be led by the Holy Spirit and that many mighty works are evidenced in your life to the glory of God. Just do not relegate the manifestation of kinds of tongues as a "distraction". God's workings within the body of Christ are designed to benefit the body, not distract. When God calls on me to speak in tongues, I will gladly do so in service to Him. He is the one Who directs the operation of the manifestation.
Another backhanded slap. I have never left out the Holy Spirit. In fact I have stressed time and time again how salvation is only possible when the Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.
The Holy Spirit is not in extra biblical or non biblical activities. I know that charismatics and Pentecostals want their tongues to be biblical but even among themselves there is no consensus of beliefs.
The modern charismatic and Pentecostal movements are about manipulating God not seeking Gods mercy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Holy Spirit is not in extra biblical or non biblical activities. I know that charismatics and Pentecostals want their tongues to be biblical but even among themselves there is no consensus of beliefs.
The modern charismatic and Pentecostal movements are about manipulating God not seeking Gods mercy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Then its a gift of man as the things of men and not God as the things of God ? I think the Spirit of Christ that lives in men initiate His gifts not the creature their gifts . Gift are two fold .He can use a unbeliever to perform His will as easily as one who does have faith.He is not served by human hands/will in any way shape or form I believe.
God gains control of their mouth by putting his word on their lips called prophecy.
The pastor as one sent by God (apostle) declares the word of God called prophecy as it teaches us we abide in Christ the teacher. Teaching we do need a man to teach us is a warning the antichrst has his foot in the door. One teacher as our M aster /Rabbi, one father in heaven. as we are not to call any man our spiriutl father on eath the same aplies to teacher .rember as it teaches us we abide in the propmised teacher comforter and guide.Not the pastor as if he was in the place of the holy Spirit. That kind of teacher father is found in Catholicism called a Pope .
Not contradict add to it . For instance we can find a phrase like in Joel and find the same wording in Acts. Each time its a new revelation it does not have to contradict, just add to violate the warning not to add..
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Yes I agree with that.
Yes and in the same context he said his flesh profits for nothing. Yes many misunderstood the drinking of blood ,eating of flesh parable. Remember he hid the spiritual understanding from those disciples in John six that walked away(no faith) they were not given the faith of Christ in order to understand the parables.
God gains control of their mouth by putting his word on their lips called prophecy.
The pastor as one sent by God (apostle) declares the word of God called prophecy as it teaches us we abide in Christ the teacher. Teaching we do need a man to teach us is a warning the antichrst has his foot in the door. One teacher as our M aster /Rabbi, one father in heaven. as we are not to call any man our spiriutl father on eath the same aplies to teacher .rember as it teaches us we abide in the propmised teacher comforter and guide.Not the pastor as if he was in the place of the holy Spirit. That kind of teacher father is found in Catholicism called a Pope .
Not contradict add to it . For instance we can find a phrase like in Joel and find the same wording in Acts. Each time its a new revelation it does not have to contradict, just add to violate the warning not to add..
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Yes I agree with that.
Yes and in the same context he said his flesh profits for nothing. Yes many misunderstood the drinking of blood ,eating of flesh parable. Remember he hid the spiritual understanding from those disciples in John six that walked away(no faith) they were not given the faith of Christ in order to understand the parables.
L
I don't slap people. they generally manage to do a good job of that themselves
who do you think YOU are slapping when you say believers who speak in tongues are doing so by the power of the devil?
you cannot say you accept this gift but not that gift
the Holy Spirit will never say certain gifts have ceased...He would never say that
so who are the people who try to excise certain gifts actually listening to?
the rhetoric that I slapped you is total nonsense
you are trying to defend something that cannot be defended
who do you think YOU are slapping when you say believers who speak in tongues are doing so by the power of the devil?
you cannot say you accept this gift but not that gift
the Holy Spirit will never say certain gifts have ceased...He would never say that
so who are the people who try to excise certain gifts actually listening to?
the rhetoric that I slapped you is total nonsense
you are trying to defend something that cannot be defended
L
you are being evasive...evasive was not used as a label...rather as a verb
this thread is about speaking in tongues, so do you or not believe that gift is for today?
hope that is plain enough
is the expression I am not a church person somehow supposed to make me think you are being made to answer what you can't?
in the other thread, you presented yourself as someone conducting expert research and coming to expansive conclusions...not being a church person (whatever that is) did not seem to bother you then
not buying it
anyway...gone for the week-end now...thankfully
this thread is about speaking in tongues, so do you or not believe that gift is for today?
hope that is plain enough
is the expression I am not a church person somehow supposed to make me think you are being made to answer what you can't?
in the other thread, you presented yourself as someone conducting expert research and coming to expansive conclusions...not being a church person (whatever that is) did not seem to bother you then
not buying it
anyway...gone for the week-end now...thankfully
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Loaded with religiousness but no Spiritual content.
For the life of me I see no reason for self edification through unknown or unknowable tongues. It is a flight of fantasy not a profitable undertaking for a servant of the Lord.
To understand the scriptures you must keep them in context. Tongues were for the Jews. This is evident in Acts and attested to by Peter himself.
Acts 10: 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter rehearsed this event in Jerusalem before the brethren. Acts 11.
I know it's not what you want to hear but it is the truth from Gods word. When Gentiles spoke in tongues it was for a witness to the Jews who were rejecting Jesus as Messiah.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the life of me I see no reason for self edification through unknown or unknowable tongues. It is a flight of fantasy not a profitable undertaking for a servant of the Lord.
To understand the scriptures you must keep them in context. Tongues were for the Jews. This is evident in Acts and attested to by Peter himself.
Acts 10: 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter rehearsed this event in Jerusalem before the brethren. Acts 11.
I know it's not what you want to hear but it is the truth from Gods word. When Gentiles spoke in tongues it was for a witness to the Jews who were rejecting Jesus as Messiah.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Exactly. The church I learned about tongues in had a policy that if you felt you being led to give a public prophecy you were to notify leadership. Same if you felt you were being led to interpret. Only if the 2 were present would they approve it. While I don't see this specific template in the Bible, I think it does fall under the banner of prophetic tongues in an assembly being orderly, or not at all.
I tend to think that prophecy now is an exhortation of the existing word of God. What one would consider 'fore-telling' I believe falls under the gifts of knowledge and/or wisdom. I had a guy walk up to me once as a new church member, a total stranger, who said he was being led to tell me that some people leave a church because it takes 6 months or more to make sincere friends. I forgot about his word and after attending for 6 months left because I had made no real friends. But then I remembered his word and returned, whence I did make new friends. Even tho the word was about something to occur in the future, I think of it more as a word of knowledge/wisdom than a prophecy.
R
It's biblical and not socially accepted. In our church and church from my youth a person would give a message in tongues and then some else would interpret and never one time was it not biblical. Speaking in tongues is biblical all of the apostles did so as well even Paul and it was a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Why speak in tongues? When you pray you pray your will, yes I know you ask for His will when you pray. But praying in tongues is the Holy Spirit praying through you and praying His perfect will. Because you don't know what you are praying and your will and wants are removed. It is the tongue talkers that pray the perfect will of God.
Why speak in tongues? When you pray you pray your will, yes I know you ask for His will when you pray. But praying in tongues is the Holy Spirit praying through you and praying His perfect will. Because you don't know what you are praying and your will and wants are removed. It is the tongue talkers that pray the perfect will of God.
Volitional meaning the ability to choose - Paul said he wished we all would speak in tongues, yet he also said that not everyone will. In fact he went on to say that some would forbid it. All of the gifts are volitional, God forces them upon no one because He wishes us to be willing partners in their distribution.