Psalm 27

[evyaniy]

So the word of scripture that God provided for Christians for generation upon generation is wrong because God would deceive tgose who have faith in Christ and only you have the correct understanding.
There was no church before you. You must be the new messiah.

Get off the gas and repent.

The English translations can have issues. His Word is perfect. People had what they needed for Salvation. Faith in the Son for forgiveness of sins and to receive Eternal Life.

Now He is opening the Psalms to our understanding to bring more of the billions of people on earth to faith in the Son. Other religions recognize the Psalms as Scriptures. If they understand the Son's actual prayers are revealed in the Psalms which proves He is without question the Messiah, many more may come to faith in Him.

The fact that John 10:18 was mistranslated became an issue in this discussion because people were using it to say the Son raised Himself because of the translation error. The Father raised the Son as many verses tell us as well as His prayers in the Psalms. So the translation error with John 10:18 had to be addressed. He "received" His life back again because of His obedience and faith in His Father and the promise of life in the law to Him for giving His life to save us. His Father raised Him which agrees with His prayers and the rest of Scripture.

 

[posthuman]

8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered.

c. to learn by use and practice; (in the preterite) to be in the habit of, accustomed to: followed by an infinitive, 1 Timothy 5:; Titus 3:14; Philippians 4:11 (Aeschylus Prom. 1068; Xenophon, an. 3, 2, 25); ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθε τήν ὑπακοήν, Hebrews 5:8 (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 68, 1 and ἀπό, as above). In the difficult passage 1 Timothy 5:13, neither ἀργαί depends upon the verb μανθάνουσι (which would mean they learn to be idle, or learn idleness; so Bretschneider (Lexicon, under the word 2 b.), and Winers Grammar, 347 (325f); (cf. Stallbaum's note and references on Plato's Euthydemus, p. 276 b.)), nor περιερχόμενοι (they learn to go about from house to house, — so the majority of interpreters; for, according to uniform Greek usage, a participle joined to the verb μανθάνειν and belonging to the subject denotes what sort of a person one learns or perceives himself to be, as ἔμαθεν ἔγκυος οὖσα, she perceived herself to be with child, Herodotus 1, 5); but μανθάνειν must be taken absolutely (see a. above) and emphatically, of what they learn by going about from house to house and what it is unseemly for them to know; cf. Bengel ad loc, and Buttmann, § 144, 17; (so Wordsworth, in the place cited). (Compare: καταμανθάνω.)

 

[posthuman]

I like that, "a deep well..."

While Hebrews 5 does refer to His prayer in the garden, and it is a prayer to "One who could save Him from death" which "was heard," it strikes me as a prayer of taking the cup of death (not so much as an issue of "having to" for His own sake but rather only for ours) from Him altogether and not one of 'once I drink it, please raise me up.' Even so, nevertheless, Jesus didn't miss a beat to follow that with the prayer, "not My will, but Yours be done."

to keep in mind, too -

Hebrews 5:7
who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications

we are categorically in the context of priesthood - these are offerings by our great Mediator, for our sake



as in John 17, He prays for us, that we may be kept, and be one - - I understand His agony as not over Himself, for the things He came to do, but for us

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Now He is opening the Psalms to our understanding to bring more of the billions of people on earth to faith in the Son. Other religions recognize the Psalms as Scriptures. If they understand the Son's actual prayers are revealed in the Psalms which proves He is without question the Messiah, many more may come to faith in Him.

So other religions recognize scripture but not english speaking chrisrians for the past 500 years?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The fact that John 10:18 was mistranslated became an issue in this discussion because people were using it to say the Son raised Himself because of the translation error. The Father raised the Son as many verses tell us as well as His prayers in the Psalms. So the translation error with John 10:18 had to be addressed. He "received" His life back again because of His obedience and faith in His Father and the promise of life in the law to Him for giving His life to save us. His Father raised Him which agrees with His prayers and the rest of Scripture.

You think Jesus ceased to exist when He died? Peter says He went to preach victory to those who were disobedient prior to the flood.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Hey, i have an idea. Post your favorite "Who" song.

 

[Mem]

to keep in mind, too -

Hebrews 5:7
who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications

we are categorically in the context of priesthood - these are offerings by our great Mediator, for our sake



as in John 17, He prays for us, that we may be kept, and be one - - I understand His agony as not over Himself, for the things He came to do, but for us

This view certainly aligns with His particular character trait of selflessness.

 

[Lafftur]

He had to set aside His Divine attributes and become a Man in order to die. The Divine cannot die. He also needed to experience suffering to be made perfect as Hebrews tells us. He could not raise Himself as a Man. His Father had to do that. You do not have an appreciation for His humanity and what it means. His accomplishment was even greater when considering He did it as a Man Who was emptied and completely dependent on the Father.

I’ve enjoyed reading this discussion…

I think the missing puzzle piece is considering that Jesus Christ as Son of Man had the freedom and right to make choices.

As the Son of God, it was easy for Him to choose His Father’s Will but, as the Son of Man, His flesh like ours was weak and contrary to His Father’s Will.

The power and authority given to Jesus Christ by His Father to lay His life down and to receive/take it up again was that Jesus Christ would have the right to choose to do so. No one could make that choice for Him.

Jesus Christ choose the Father’s Will, not His own Will, when He layed His life down.

The Son of Man AND the Son of God hung on that cross and suffered but, only the Son of Man died as a kernel of wheat in the ground so that a New incorruptible body of the Son of Man and Son of God arose on the 3rd day as the First Begotten of many brethren.

Jesus Christ never was only Man, His Father has always been God… He is both Son of Man and Son of God.

 

[evyaniy]

7 He(the Son), in the days of His flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to Him(the Father) Who was able to save Him from death,

His Father was able to save Him from death. It says it right there. His Father was able. As a Man He was not able to raise Himself. His Father had to save Him from death. He prayed to His Father to save Him from death and for life all through Psalm 119. It is His prayer for life and to be raised because of His obedience. His Father heard His prayer and raised Him because of His obedience and the promise of life in the law to Him. His Father declared Him to be the Son of YAH with power by raising Him to life again.

 

[posthuman]

His flesh like ours was weak and contrary to His Father’s Will.

The will of our flesh is contrary to God because of sin and deception, neither of which are present in Christ.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly, this only I have found:
That God made man upright,
But they have sought out many schemes.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus Christ choose the Father’s Will, not His own Will, when He layed His life down.

it is neither wrong nor contrary to abhor death.

death is unnatural, the result of sin.

 

[Mem]

it is neither wrong nor contrary to abhor death.

death is unnatural, the result of sin.

This point deserves, and perhaps even warrants, more contemplation. Jesus accepted/took death, which was required of us rather than ever of Him except for our sake because our death was, obviously, although sufficient to meet the requirement of the law, was insufficient for life...

 

[Mem]

...The premise of the claim throughout this thread that Jesus needed 'saved' from death implies death's rightful claim on Him. However, did death have any "power" to take/receive Jesus? Did death have any power to refuse Him? What would the answer to this tell us of the gates of Hell in relation to its locks and keys?

 

[evyaniy]

...The premise of the claim throughout this thread that Jesus needed 'saved' from death implies death's rightful claim on Him. However, did death have any "power" to take/receive Jesus? Did death have any power to refuse Him? What would the answer to this tell us of the gates of Hell in relation to its locks and keys?

You still don't get it, which is why the same thing has to be repeated over and over and over.

Hebrews 5:7 says He needed to be saved from death, the death He suffered for us.

In order to be fully obedient to the law He had to offer His Life as a Sacrifice for our sins in obedience to His Father and the law, and the commandments to love His neighbor as Himself. We could not save ourselves. Only He could.

He had a promise/commandment of life in the Law specifically to Him that the Man Who kept the Law would live even though He had to die to fully keep the Law. Leviticus 18:5 The translations make it a little hard to understand but it is a promise of life to the Man Who kept the law. He is that Man.

Psalm 119 is His prayer for life because of His obedience to the Law in giving Himself to save us. He asks His Father at least 16 times in the Psalm for Life(haYAH H2421) in the Psalm because of His obedience.

Death had no claim on Him after He was fully obedient in giving His life to save us. He even said when going out to get arrested that the prince of this world had nothing on Him, meaning He was obedient to the Law up to that point and was prepared to now face death to save us in obedience to the law.

He went to the cross as a Man trusting(faith) in His Father's promise of life in the law to Him even though He had to die to fully fulfill and be obedient to the Law, that He would be raised to life again.

By One Man's obedience we are saved.

He was raised by His Father according to the promise of life to Him, showing His complete obedience to the Law and declaring Him with power to be the Son of YAH.

Don't mind trying to sum it up again, at the risk of being accused again of saying the same things over and over like a mantra.

 

[evyaniy]

One of the main problems is that you will not accept that His actual prayers are in the Psalms. Since you have come out so strong against that possibility, now it has become a face saver to not admit Psalm 119 is His prayer as well as many other Psalms. Since you cannot admit that now and only look for reasons why it can't be Him praying in various Psalms, you miss out on all that is revealed about Him in His actual prayers.

 

[Mem]

You still don't get it, which is why the same thing has to be repeated over and over and over.

There's a difference between not getting it and not receiving it. I'm not taking what you're offering. Much like Jesus' offer to save us, He took our death for it, not worried whether He could rise again or not, He had no doubt He would rise again.

Psalm 27 is the Psalm of the High Holidays, Rosh Hashanah (my light), Yom Kippur (my salvation), and Sukkot (my fortress).

 

[evyaniy]

There's a difference between not getting it and not receiving it. I'm not taking what you're offering. Much like Jesus' offer to save us, He took our death for it, not worried whether He could rise again or not, He had no doubt He would rise again.

Psalm 27 is the Psalm of the High Holidays, Rosh Hashanah (my light), Yom Kippur (my salvation), and Sukkot (my fortress).

Sorry you can't see it or receive it or whatever. Did the best to share it. Maybe in time. More could be saved if they could understand the Son praying in the Psalms.

 

[Mem]

Sorry you can't see it or receive it or whatever. Did the best to share it. Maybe in time. More could be saved if they could understand the Son praying in the Psalms.

Worldly sorrow leads to death, but godly sorrow leads to repentance.

 

[evyaniy]

 

[Lafftur]

I do believe Jesus Christ raised Himself from the dead but not until His Father said to…. Jesus knew to wait till the 3rd day.

Jesus Christ is The Resurrection and The Life. This power and authority had been given to Jesus Christ by His Father and Jesus knew His Father’s Will and knew to wait till the 3rd day.

Even now, Jesus Christ has the power and authority to return to the Earth but will not do it until His Father says, “It’s time. Go now!”