Rapture= false teaching

MyBagsRPacked · Nov 30, 2009

I think a little emphasis is required...

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

I believe we're living in the time of tribulation. And if one doesn't think we are, oh are we in for a wild ride...

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

ChickenMan3122 said:

1st Thess 4:15 tells us that verses 16-17 occurs at the coming of Christ whcih Matthew 24 tells us is immediately after the Tribulation. 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 tells us that the rapture is at the Last Trump, yet also in Matthew 24 it ells us a trumpet will sound at the end of the tribulation to signal the gathering of the elect. The LAST TRUMP cannot be before the trumpet in Matthew 24 which is after the tribulation or it would not be the LAST TRUMP.

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

ChickenMan3122 said:

You came into this conversation declaring the clarity of the opretrib rapture yet the verses you gave only show that there will be a rapture not when it will be, and that we will not suffer God's wrath, which is never referred to as the Tribulation in scripture.

ChickenMan3122 · Dec 1, 2009

watchmen said:

Well I've explained the verses you gave me and the verses I gave, and it's obvious you are stuck on the post trib rapture, so God bless! : )

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

ChickenMan3122 said:

I was a pretribber all my life until I started studying scripture for myself. i believe whatever the bible says whether it makes me feel good or not. I am off to bed before my wife gets mad but I hope to show you more in the morning.

I am not here to prove you wrong but to lead you to the truth.

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

Chicken, this post is for you. If I could show you in scripture two undenable facts, #1 that the rapture is on the same day as Christ return, #2 that the return of Christ is after the Tribulation? Would that cause you to even consider the possibility of a post trib rapture? Or is your mind made up regardless of what scripture teaches.

ChickenMan3122 · Dec 1, 2009

watchmen said:

Do whatever you want. Here and in the OSAS thread, people are stuck in their own beliefs and will claim whatever doesn't hold to there beliefs are "teachings from demons." I'm new here, obvioiusly, and I catch on real quick that absolutely nobody is going to change their beliefs regardless of what the scripture says. If I explain scripture I will get accused of twisting it, so there isn't a point is there?

greatkraw · Dec 1, 2009

watchmen said:

Yes Watchmen, your insecurities force you to persuade others also.

The 2nd coming or Glorious appearing will be predictable.

Anyone knows that from the time of the Abomination of desolation you only have to count 42 months until the return of Christ.

on the other hand................

see Matthew 24:44
1 Thess 5:1-3

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

greatkraw said:

I know that I know that i know that the 2nd coming is affter the Tribulation for Jesus Himself said so.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The same day that know one knows the day or hour of Jesus also tells us is immediately after the Tribulation. Will you doubt the Lord?

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

With the very same breath that Jesus tells us no one knows the day or hour of His return He also tell us it is immediately after the tribulation. Yet greatkraw would try to use one part of Christ statement to disprove the other portion of what He said. You cannot do that. You must believe all of what Christ has told us.

greatkraw · Dec 1, 2009

MyBagsRPacked said:

I think a little emphasis is required...

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

I believe we're living in the time of tribulation. And if one doesn't think we are, oh are we in for a wild ride...

That can only mean that the man of sin has already been revealed. - sorry, I missed it.

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

ChickenMan3122 said:

The difference is I can prove the post trib rapture with scripture and you would have to ignore the truth to deny it. To where you cannot do the same with the pretrib view.

#1 1st Thess 4:15-17 tells us that the rapture is at the coming of Christ.
#2 Matthew 24:29-31 tells us that the coming of Christ is after the Tribulation.

#3 If the rapture is at the coming of Christ and the coming of Christ is after the Tribulation the that places the rapture when?

Can you honestly say that this is not what the Bible says?

imoss · Dec 1, 2009

hello chickenman & welcome to CC!!!

ChickenMan3122 · Dec 2, 2009

Thank you! : D

STEPHAN · Dec 6, 2009

This book called the Bible provides all that you or I need to recognize that which is false or to be deceived study, study and if you think that you know it all study more. I will say this that many false prophet's are out there "they communicate with spirit's that are not sent from God yes a prophet can hear a clear audible voice that is a spirit it has happened since the beginning, even angel's are spiritual beings.
We are given this wonderful Book "The Holy Oracle's" to make it short 1 John 4:1-4 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greeter then he who is in the world." at His coming Christ's coming, as it came in the book of Acts, it will leave in the same way.
I am waiting for the revival of the Holy Spirit, I believe many will have that gift "The Holy Spirit” it will be an awakening a revival of the Holy Spirit Christ church prepared and preparing many signs and wonders we are living in the Last of days.

STEPHAN · Dec 6, 2009

Passage John 16:33-33:

33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

oopsies · Dec 6, 2009

I read somewhere before where someone made a joke on how fitting it would be if pre-trib rapture believers receive a pre-trib rapture while mid-trib rapture believers receive a mid-trib rapture and post-trib rapture believers receive a post-trib rapture. Those who do not believe in a rapture would not receive a rapture. Voila. Problem solved.

greatkraw · Dec 7, 2009

oopsies said:

works for me (lol)

There is a group which says the 'good' christians go pre trib and the 'bad' christians go mid trib

oopsies · Dec 7, 2009

greatkraw said:

fortunately, all are treated the same.

miktre · Dec 7, 2009

oopsies said:

Post tribbers would better off not even use the word rapture for 2 reasons
#1 its origins
#2 it causes confusion
It would be better call our gathering unto Him

I posted this material earlier:

Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:

The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.

This is also in error, but they are the closest to the truth out of all Rapture theories. But they fall off right at the end. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) and that they will be here for the time of the false messiah antichrist. Then they make a nonsensical statement, they say that they will be Raptured up into the clouds at the end of the Tribulation and then turn right around and come back with Jesus at His Second Advent - this makes no sense at all!
This version errs in that they feel that only a portion of the people on the planet (the 'Church') will be removed before the wrath of God, which in fact commences the "Day of the Lord." But there is no selective removal before God's wrath is executed on the ungodly. The 'Church' witnesses the destruction of the ungodly but is itself protected from it. Observe this Scripture showing that some are destroyed while others yet REMAIN and witness that destruction of the ungodly: "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." {Rev 11:13}.

17 Then#1 we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them#2 in the clouds#3, to meet the Lord in the air#4:

Explanation of above: #1Then: = When?? - At the seventh trump! {Rev 11:15} - at the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. #2 with them: = Who?? - Those who are already in their spirit bodies - Those who died in the flesh from the beginning of time, who went instantly went back to the Father at the time of their individual deaths. So far so good, now the interpretation of the next two words ('clouds' and 'air') are the 'foundation' [built on sand] of their Rapture doctrines. A whole doctrine built up around two words taken out of context! #3 clouds: = The Rapturist believes this 'clouds' to be like 'rain clouds.' Language lexicons are of little help with this word as it ultimately has two different meanings:

clouds: Greek word #3507 nephele (nef-el'-ay); from #3509; properly, cloudiness, i.e. (concretely) a cloud.
Cloud: #3509 nephos- a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng; a).used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapor obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapor with some form or shape; b). a cloud in the sky

Above we see that the word can mean either a 'cloud in the sky' or a dense multitude or throng (of people). As I said, the Lexicons are not specific enough here for us to 'hang our hat on,' so to speak. However, there is another resource available to us to secure the proper meaning of the word 'cloud' as it is used here, and that is Scripture itself. We shall let the Bible translate itself. The word "Cloud" #3509 'nephos' whence comes our word 'clouds' is used in only one place in the entire Bible, this will remove any ambiguity with the word usage.
Apostle Paul wrote our Scripture here in 1st Thessalonians, he also wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the book of Hebrews that Paul used the word "cloud #3509." Paul was a Hebrew from the Tribe of Benjamin, but he also spoke Greek and was a naturalized Roman citizen. However, the Greek he spoke was colloquial Greek (or 'street Greek'). This word 'clouds', as it is used here by Paul is a figure of speech, meaning a large group, used also by Paul in {Heb12:1},supplied below for your comparison:

Heb 12:1(Paul's use of the word 'cloud' as a figure of speech)
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)

Like I said, Paul was using a colloquialism (figure of speech). Paul no more meant that those would meet Jesus in a 'rain cloud' than he meant that the people above would stage a foot-race on a 'rain-cloud.' The use of the word 'cloud' or 'clouds' in these two Scriptures means a crowd, a great multitude, a vast collection, or dense for multitude of people, as in a "cloud of locusts," or, a "cloud of mosquitoes."
Also, when Jesus Christ returns at his second Advent he will be accompanied by an innumerable host of Angels {Rev 19:11-16}. Below, that innumerable host of Angels is referred to as 'clouds.' Jesus isn't coming on or in water clouds, He is coming with clouds of Angels, so many that they will cloud the sky and can not be counted for their multitude:

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)

Ok, now our last word in this Scripture: #4 air: = I don't even have to tell you how the Rapturist interprets this word. But the word doesn't mean 'air' like in the sky (for you even have 'air' in your basement). But rather it is the spirit of life air, the pneuma, as in a pneumatic tire (whence we get the word pneumatic). It is the animation of the body, the life, the spirit. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament this word finds it's equivalent in 'neshamah,' which is what God blew into Adam's nostrils and he became a living being. The word means "the breath of life." Below we shall provide definitions in both Greek and Hebrew of this "breath of life" or "spirit":

Air: Greek word #109 aer (ah-ayr'); from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient)

This is what God did into Adams nostrils, and through Christ we shall have the "breath of eternal life." The Hebrew counterpart for this word is:

breath of (life): Hebrew word #5397 neshamah (nesh-aw-maw'); from 5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: KJV-- blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit. Neshamah - The breath, the spirit; a) the breath (of God) b) the breath (of man) c) every breathing thing d) the spirit (of man).

Observe below:Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)

Rapture= false teaching

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