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Show us with scripture where the Bible says the rapture is before the Tribulation. Should be easy since it is so clear.
Another OSAS, pretribber, just what we need.
Shows you where denominational indoctrination has gotten us.
Another OSAS, pretribber, just what we need.
Shows you where denominational indoctrination has gotten us.
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
I'm sure these verses are in this thread, but there are some again. : )
The Tribulation does not = the wrath. for 1st Thess 5:9 can prove what you want it to, you must show that the tribulation and the wrath they we are not appointed to are one and the same, something you cannot do.
I am glad to asked.
Here are the verses you gave
#1 the first passages 1st Thess 4:16-17 simply says there will be a rapture it doesn;t say when uit will occur. However if you look ast verse 15 it does tell you when the event you call the rapture does occur.
1st Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
It occurs at the coming of Christ which is after the Tribulation not before it. per Matthew 24:29-31, and Mark 13:24-27
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
#2 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 (quoted above) says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
So both the verses you gave actually tell us when the rapture is
#1 at the coming of Christ
#2 at the last trump
Which are both after the tribulation. Proving the rapture itself is after the Tribulation.
I am glad to asked.
Here are the verses you gave
#1 the first passages 1st Thess 4:16-17 simply says there will be a rapture it doesn;t say when uit will occur. However if you look ast verse 15 it does tell you when the event you call the rapture does occur.
1st Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
It occurs at the coming of Christ which is after the Tribulation not before it. per Matthew 24:29-31, and Mark 13:24-27
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
#2 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 (quoted above) says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
So both the verses you gave actually tell us when the rapture is
#1 at the coming of Christ
#2 at the last trump
Which are both after the tribulation. Proving the rapture itself is after the Tribulation.
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First of all the rapture is at the post trib 2nd coming so there will not be any pain after the rapture, but you ask why would God allow the saved to suffer pain or why would God allow the saved to go through the Tribulation?
Let me ask you this. Why did all the Apostles have to be persecuted, and all but one martyred? Why are people being imprisoned for their faith as we speak in China, and killed by the masses for Christ in Africa, and why do you believe we are better than Jesus, the apostles, the Chinese or African Christians of today that you should not also suffer for your faith? Why are men watching their wives and children killed before their eyes because they will not deny Christ? You escaping the wrath of man and Satan while others suffer it is that what you call justice? We must believe God's word is true not deny, ignore, twist, or dismiss it every time it doesn't seem rational or fair. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord even if it cost us our lives
Let me ask you this. Why did all the Apostles have to be persecuted, and all but one martyred? Why are people being imprisoned for their faith as we speak in China, and killed by the masses for Christ in Africa, and why do you believe we are better than Jesus, the apostles, the Chinese or African Christians of today that you should not also suffer for your faith? Why are men watching their wives and children killed before their eyes because they will not deny Christ? You escaping the wrath of man and Satan while others suffer it is that what you call justice? We must believe God's word is true not deny, ignore, twist, or dismiss it every time it doesn't seem rational or fair. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord even if it cost us our lives