Rapture= false teaching

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ChristsArmorBearer

Guest
i am meeting Him in the air also.I am not going through the tribulation. amen. i have recently read Revelations and will start again in January. if anyone is interested in a discussion please let me know.
No one is questioning whether or not there will be a rapture. The question is rather, when will the rapture take place?

Do yourself a favor and as you are reading in Revelations about the seals, trumpets and bowls also as a sidenote read the judgements that God pours out on Egypt during the time of the Exodus. Make yourself a chart that compares the two then take a long hard look at the timing of the first passover then compare that to what the Book of Revelation says takes place. :)
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

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This is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. If the rapture was pretrib all true Christians would be raptured whether they were pre or post trib, and the fact that someone falsely believes pretrib does not mean that they will be rapture pretrib..
Easy bro. While I agree with your assessment please keep in mind that most churches dont even believe in the literal return of christ much less teach a decent interpretation of the book of revelation / daniel / ezekiel. While I realize that these kinds of convos can get frustrating, we MUST have compassion for our fellow brothers and sisters despite how they act or react to us. If / when we find ourselves getting frustrated, I would seriously consider a taking a breather.
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

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I could ask all kinds of other questions like, what is the difference between the body of Christ and the bride of Christ?
Interesting proposition. I have a couple of ideas as to what you are referring to. Should make for an interesting conversation. Maybe we could chat some time. :)
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Easy bro. While I agree with your assessment please keep in mind that most churches dont even believe in the literal return of christ much less teach a decent interpretation of the book of revelation / daniel / ezekiel. While I realize that these kinds of convos can get frustrating, we MUST have compassion for our fellow brothers and sisters despite how they act or react to us. If / when we find ourselves getting frustrated, I would seriously consider a taking a breather.
I understand, but to say pretribbers are going to be raptured pretribulationally, but post tribbers won't. There is no other way to describe such a statement but as stupid.
 
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shad

Guest
I understand, but to say pretribbers are going to be raptured pretribulationally, but post tribbers won't. There is no other way to describe such a statement but as stupid.
I am sure that when Christ comes for the church just prior to the tribulation, and providing that you have not lost your salvation, you will be debating with someone (as you are going up) that it was not suppose to happen this way.
 
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I am sure that when Christ comes for the church just prior to the tribulation, and providing that you have not lost your salvation, you will be debating with someone (as you are going up) that it was not suppose to happen this way.
I would be happy to be raptured pretrib, but i know through God's very Words i will not.
 
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secretofyah

Guest
how do you like that; when christ returns he doesnt actually land he just flies by to pick up the christians. lol. that poor fellow has been so decieved that he doesnt even realize the unscriptural support for such a doctrine. No when He returns to gather his brothers and sisters He's landing alright not just doing a flyby
 
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secretofyah

Guest
there is no third coming of our King and He does not return until the last trump which is post trib just read the first 6 trumps and tell me that aint tribulation. Christians will be here enduring the tribulation. you must really get away from those pretrib rapture beliefs because they are contrary to so many old and new testament scripture that describe those days and christians are right in the thick of it fighting for our King and His government that was set up 2000 years ago. All the kingdoms od the earth have been handed over to yahshuah and satan no longer has control of them except by christian default. these kingdoms were placed into the christian's hands by yahshuah when He left them to our stewardship until His return and then He will impose His rule on everyone. some will love it and the liberals will hate it because they cant be gay anymore without being executed in public
 
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sunshine_debbie

Guest
Good question. I too have always been taught the pretrib rapture, and listen to Jack Van Impy. However the fact is the greatest scholars are not incorrect. most of the scholars from the apostle Paul to Polycarp, to Justin Martyr and so on were all post trib believers. Not until the 19th century did the pretrib begin to be taught. ( I wouldn't consider Jack Van impy a great scholar). whether the rapture was pre or post trib it would not change the way I pray read my Bible live my life or witness to others, but it would change how I see the end time events, and how I prepared my heart, mind, and spirit to confront them.



Thank you for your response Debbie.
I have no idea if Jack Van Impe is a great scholar or not by other's standards. But he certainly knows the Bible, better then I ever could hope to. And I mentioned him because he is a minister who teaches almost only about the rapture and the end times. As far as preparing my heart, mind, and spirit, the problem with that is I need to do that just to make it through each day in my walk with Christ. The rapture will be when it is supposed to be and NO amount of debate either way is going to change that. I prefer to live in Christ and love God NOW.

Debbie
 
Apr 23, 2009
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I have no idea if Jack Van Impe is a great scholar or not by other's standards. But he certainly knows the Bible, better then I ever could hope to. And I mentioned him because he is a minister who teaches almost only about the rapture and the end times. As far as preparing my heart, mind, and spirit, the problem with that is I need to do that just to make it through each day in my walk with Christ. The rapture will be when it is supposed to be and NO amount of debate either way is going to change that. I prefer to live in Christ and love God NOW.

Debbie
Good for you

God bless you.
 
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dane_g87

Guest
Here's the truth folks. We await a future resurrection. When that time has come, the Lord will descend from Heaven, and the dead will be raised. Those who have had faith in Christ will be raised unto life; those who have done evil will be raised unto condemnation. The judgment will commence. Sinners cast into the lake of fire for eternity, the saints shining like the sun in the new heaven and earth with God forevermore.

All this bickering about when this happens or that happens is all useless and stupid. We all follow one Lord, or at least some of us do, while the rest merely profess it.
 
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shad

Guest
The reason that there is such a diverse understanding about the return of Christ is the result of three things.

1.UNDERSTANDING THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH - The church is a mystery of Christ, never revealed to the prophets of old but only in great detail to Paul the apostle. When Christ spoke of the church it was brief, part was instructional and the other prophetic. It was enough to get the original apostles going after they had received the Holy Spirit. Christ however spent (3) years with Paul in Arabia teaching and giving him much revelation concerning the church, that would include both Jews and Gentiles. The original apostles knew nothing of the body and bride of Christ until Paul came on the scene. They knew nothing about the plan of God for the church, other than evangelism and the return of Christ within the dispensation of time that it would be functional on the earth. Many Jews and some Gentiles believed upon Christ and were added to the church from Pentecost until Paul met with Peter after those (3) years / Gal 1:18. The ministry to the Gentiles started with Peter in the house of Cornelius but did not get going until Paul was introduced to the other apostles in Acts 9:27 and began his missionary journeys from the church at Antioch with Barnabas.

2. THE IMPORTANCE OF APPLICATION - Involves the application of the scriptures that refer to the return and coming of Christ applied to the church and to the nation and people of Israel, the Jews, God's elect. There should be a distinction and separation of these (2) groups in relationship to the prophesies of the OT concerning the people of Israel (God's elect) and the revelation of the mystery of the church, Christ's body (also God's elect). Without a distinction and separation of these, they become commingled and confusion results.

3. UNDERSTANDING THE LANGUAGE, TIMES AND CONCERNS THEY HAD AS A CHURCH - The actual meaning of the scriptures as they apply to these (2) groups in the plan and will of God. It becomes necessary to have an understanding of the Greek language, especially the verbs and prepositions that apply to the text. Many unintentionally wrong conclusions can be made without some kind of background knowledge of the language and the times. The church at Thessaloníki is an example of this kind of dilemma. With no knowledge of the background of the church or an understanding of the verbs and prepositions used in the letters Paul wrote to them, along with their concern for knowing what would happen to those that had died in Christ before them, you could misunderstand and misapply what Paul was trying to communicate to the believers.

Between the gospels, the epistles written to the church and the Revelation given to the apostle John, there is an awful lot of information they needs to be understood dispensationally, prophetically through promise and instructionally in relationship to (2) elect groups, the church and the people of Israel, the Jews.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
I am sure that when Christ comes for the church just prior to the tribulation, and providing that you have not lost your salvation, you will be debating with someone (as you are going up) that it was not suppose to happen this way.

rofl...............................
 
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miktre

Guest
I wanted to ad a little more commentary about our testimony and inserted scripture from Paul. Documenting that Christ and Paul never gave a different account about our gathering together unto Him.

Lets look at the entirety of Luke 21 and see the entire picture Christ gives us.

1And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Establishes that Christ is in the temple at this time. The meaning of the rich men and the poor widow having to do corruption that has befallen the Temple 'Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves' Who is the chief thief? That would be satan. Not only is he corrupting with the rich mens money he will try to steal the poor womans living soul.

5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
So we know why and now we are going to find out when the temple shall be destroyed.

8.And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
'for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ' Who shall be coming in the endtimes? Satan will and the fallen angels the same ones He spoke of in Mt 24:24 the same ones He said that will have supernatural abilities. Then He says 'the time draweth near' but it is not time yet.

Here we find Pauls writing aligns perfectly with Christs. It documents that satan is sitting in the temple of God and is being worshipped as if he was God. It goes on to state that and we SHALL NOT be gathered together unto Christ until the man of sin(satan) the phoney christ be revealed.
2 THES ch2 1-6
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul tells us right here that you now know what is going to happen, why would anyone believe differently?

9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Fear not friend God will provide for these things must happen but still no end yet.

10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
You still have nothing to fear.

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Wait a second, now follow closely, the Lord goes back here and tells you what will happen before the events of the last three verses. You shall be delivered up for his names sake because you refuse to worship the false christ. Still no rapture yet to be mentioned.

13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
If God can't use you what good are you? He wants to use you to testify! In verse 12 it's says we shall be delivered up before synagogues, into prisons, and before kings and rulers. Now who is the great beast at the head of all this? It is satan in the endtimes, thats we you shall be given and deliver this testimony by the Holy Spirit.

14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Don't even plan what you are gonna say the Holy Spirit shall fill you and give you the words to say. Still no rapture yet.

16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Even your own family might be deceived because they believe that this is Christ when its really satan. 'and some of you shall they cause to be put to death' death is another name of satan[hebrews 2:14] It doesn't say you are dead but you are brought before satan and have been given a death sentence.

17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
The whole whole is under the spell but you refuse to bow to the fake.

18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
You see? You belong to God. You shall live forever, no death.

19In your patience possess ye your souls.
Endure to the end friend

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The stage has been set! but still no rapture. You better be getting on your way out of there now.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Just like Lot. The Lord did not fly him away He gave him a way out.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Vengence is the Lords it has begun.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Do you really think God is going to punish people for being parents? God forbid. He's warning those that have already partaken in the spiritual wedding with the false christ. Those that are not spiritually virgins. His bride shall be a virgin, not with child!

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The labor pains of the earth begin and Gods bride shall rejoice and those that took pleasure in unrighteousness woe unto you

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Blessed be the Messiah, our Redeemer forever and ever Amen

29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Ok Ok don't get excited now we have a parable so now we are going back and looking at more events before our Lords coming. This is not after verse 28. The parable of the fig tree can be lengthy so a complete study is better suited for another time.

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Study the word so you know whats going to happen and search the scriptures.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
But not you friend, for you let yourself receive the love of the truth.

36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
He told us how to escape, not by flying away like a bunch of ducks in the winter but rather you shall STAND! The Lord told us what to look for and when to flee and said fear not. He shall protect us. STAND! and receive the love of Christ! Forever and ever Amen

Lets look at the rest of 2 Thes ch2 and see what else Paul tells us
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7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The snare is already being prepared with the false rapture doctrine. Did you think God would not know of this?

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9{Even him}, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The texts omit 'Even him'. Paul tell us again Christ is coming after satan to destroy him and the temple. Goes on to documents as Christ repeatedly did that satan shall have supernatural abilities to fool people during his false reign.

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is the strong delusion God will send? He is going to cast satan down and let him deceive the whole world and those that have not accepted what He wrote to us. You have all this evidence and you insist on believing the false rapture doctrine and for this you shall be unprepared and partake in the false wedding.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Praise God! for this is His plan.

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For those with ears that hear.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Did He say fly? No! He said STAND fast! Hold the traditions of men? No! Hold the traditions of His word and epistle that the word taught you!

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Blessed is the name of the Lord Forever and ever Amen

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Peace unto you in Jesus Christ

37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

Guest
I would be happy to be raptured pretrib, but i know through God's very Words i will not.
I feel the same. If Christ returns pre-trib then Amen and Praise God! However I truly believe that it is an of His ultimate mercy and grace that He is not coming pre-trib because to be quite honest with you, the modern "church", especially in the West looks and acts absolutely nothing like the church wev read about bin the bible (no matter which version you are reading).

I FEEL AS THOUGH Tribulation will seve dual purposes. #1. God's way of judging those who try to impose their will upon the populance of the earth (ei. Antichrist, etc.) and, #2. the Tribulation will serve to humble the humble the masses who fill church pews every sunday believing they are saved because they have been unknowingly following a superficial denominational teaching that exalts man-made traditions and self righteousness rather than the Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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The rapture is supposed to convince lukewarm christians that Christ is Lord and Saviour when they observe airplanes crashing into buildings and buses crashing etc due to the drivers being raptured. " ah yes", the unbeliever automatically concludes... "the pilot is missing because he was raptured!, those pre-tribbers must have been right afterall!, now where's a bible?, I want to convert so I can float up to the sky like they did" !.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
The rapture is supposed to convince lukewarm christians that Christ is Lord and Saviour when they observe airplanes crashing into buildings and buses crashing etc due to the drivers being raptured. " ah yes", the unbeliever automatically concludes... "the pilot is missing because he was raptured!, those pre-tribbers must have been right afterall!, now where's a bible?, I want to convert so I can float up to the sky like they did" !.
I am sure there are already plenty of websites to explain what happened and what to expect.

1 Once the world leader is revealed just count 2,520 days.
2 DO NOT take the mark
3 Protect Jews.

There is a theory that more people will be saved after the rapture than all the time before it.
They will not be members of the Church.