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C
I'm a the only person who finds this scary? That there there is a large portion of church goers who have no concept of the literal return of Christ. They are taught that the majority of those who do not believe as they do are decieved by an "all powerful Satan" because God has chosen to longer defend His word by giving good gifts or performing miracles. The scarier part is that there are many well meaning Christians who still embrace huge portions of this midevil heritical teaching even to this day.
M
I wanted to add a little more commentary about the testimony that we will be giving and inserted scripture from Paul. We document that Christ and Paul never gave a different account about our gathering together unto Him. We establish that not only is there not a rapture, but God is set against the the false rapture teaching. Also I fixed some typos 
Lets look at the entirety of Luke 21 and see the entire picture Christ gives us.
1And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Establishes that Christ is in the temple at this time. The meaning of the rich men and the poor widow has to do with the corruption that has befallen the Temple 'Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves' Who is the chief of thieves? That would be satan. Not only is he corrupting with the rich men and their money he will try to steal the poor woman's living soul.
5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
So we know why and now we are going to find out when the temple shall be destroyed.
8.And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
'for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ' Who shall be coming in the endtimes? Satan and the fallen angels shall come, the same ones He spoke of in Mt 24:24 the same ones He said that will have supernatural abilities. Then He says 'the time draweth near' but it is not time yet. No rapture yet.
Here we find Pauls writing aligns perfectly with Christ's. It documents that satan is sitting in the temple of God and is being worshipped as if he was God. It goes on to state that and we SHALL NOT be gathered together unto Christ until the man of sin(satan) the phoney christ be revealed.
2 THES ch2 1-6
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul tells us right here that you now know what is going to happen, why would anyone believe differently?
9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Fear not friend. God will provide, for these things must happen but still no end yet. Still no mention of a rapture.
10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
You still have nothing to fear.
12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Wait a second, now follow closely, the Lord goes back here and tells you what will happen before the events of the last three verses. You shall be delivered up for his names sake because you refuse to worship the false christ. Still no rapture yet to be mentioned.
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
If God can't use you what good are you? He wants to use you to testify! In verse 12 it's says we shall be delivered up before synagogues, into prisons, and before kings and rulers. Now who is the great beast at the head of all this? It is satan in the endtimes, that's when you shall be given and deliver this testimony by the Holy Spirit.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Don't even plan what you are gonna say, the Holy Spirit shall fill you and give you the words to say in that day. Still no rapture yet.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Even your own family might be deceived because they believe that this is Christ when its really satan. 'and some of you shall they cause to be put to death' death is another name of satan[hebrews 2:14] It doesn't say you are dead but you are brought before satan and have been given a death sentence.
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
The whole world is under the spell of satan, but you refuse to bow to the fake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
You see? You belong to God. You shall live forever, no death.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.
Endure to the end friend!
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The stage has been set! but still no rapture. You better be getting on your way out of there now.
HE IS TELLING US WHEN WE WILL MAKE OUR ESCAPE!
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Just like Lot. The Lord did not fly him away He gave him a way out.
HE IS TELLING US WHERE AND HOW TO MAKE OUR ESCAPE!
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Vengeance is the Lords. It has begun.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Do you really think God is going to punish people for being parents? God forbid. He's warning those that have already partaken in the spiritual wedding with the false christ. Those that are not spiritually virgins. His bride shall be a virgin, not with child!
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The labor pains of the earth begin and Gods bride shall rejoice and those that took pleasure in unrighteousness woe unto you. Your fake marriage is over.
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He's coming with a great multitude of angels; a cloud
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Blessed be the Messiah, our Redeemer forever and ever Amen
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Ok, Ok don't get excited now we have a parable so now we are going back and looking at more events before our Lords coming. This is not after the events of verse 28. The parable of the fig tree can be lengthy so a complete study is better suited for another time.
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Study the word so you know whats going to happen and search the scriptures.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
But not you friend, for you let yourself receive the love of the truth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
He told us how to escape, not by flying away like a bunch of ducks in the winter but rather you shall STAND! The Lord told us what to look for and when to flee and said fear not. He shall protect us. STAND! and receive the love of Christ! Forever and ever Amen
Lets look at the rest of 2 Thes ch2 and see what else Paul tells us.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The snare is already being prepared with the false rapture doctrine. Did you think God would not know of this?
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9{Even him}, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The texts omit 'Even him'. Paul warns us again Christ is coming after satan to destroy him and the temple. Then he goes on to document as Christ repeatedly did, that satan shall have supernatural abilities to fool people during his false reign.
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is the strong delusion God will send? He is going to cast satan down and let him deceive the whole world and those that have not accepted what He wrote to us. You have all this evidence and you insist on believing the false rapture doctrine and for this you shall be unprepared and partake in the false wedding.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Praise God! for this is His plan.
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For those with ears that hear.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Did He say fly? No! He said STAND fast! Hold the traditions of men? No! Hold the traditions of His word and epistle that the word taught you!
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Blessed is the name of the Lord Forever and ever Amen
17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Peace unto you in Jesus Christ
37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
Lets look at the entirety of Luke 21 and see the entire picture Christ gives us.
1And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Establishes that Christ is in the temple at this time. The meaning of the rich men and the poor widow has to do with the corruption that has befallen the Temple 'Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves' Who is the chief of thieves? That would be satan. Not only is he corrupting with the rich men and their money he will try to steal the poor woman's living soul.
5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
So we know why and now we are going to find out when the temple shall be destroyed.
8.And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
'for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ' Who shall be coming in the endtimes? Satan and the fallen angels shall come, the same ones He spoke of in Mt 24:24 the same ones He said that will have supernatural abilities. Then He says 'the time draweth near' but it is not time yet. No rapture yet.
Here we find Pauls writing aligns perfectly with Christ's. It documents that satan is sitting in the temple of God and is being worshipped as if he was God. It goes on to state that and we SHALL NOT be gathered together unto Christ until the man of sin(satan) the phoney christ be revealed.
2 THES ch2 1-6
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul tells us right here that you now know what is going to happen, why would anyone believe differently?
9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Fear not friend. God will provide, for these things must happen but still no end yet. Still no mention of a rapture.
10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
You still have nothing to fear.
12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Wait a second, now follow closely, the Lord goes back here and tells you what will happen before the events of the last three verses. You shall be delivered up for his names sake because you refuse to worship the false christ. Still no rapture yet to be mentioned.
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
If God can't use you what good are you? He wants to use you to testify! In verse 12 it's says we shall be delivered up before synagogues, into prisons, and before kings and rulers. Now who is the great beast at the head of all this? It is satan in the endtimes, that's when you shall be given and deliver this testimony by the Holy Spirit.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Don't even plan what you are gonna say, the Holy Spirit shall fill you and give you the words to say in that day. Still no rapture yet.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Even your own family might be deceived because they believe that this is Christ when its really satan. 'and some of you shall they cause to be put to death' death is another name of satan[hebrews 2:14] It doesn't say you are dead but you are brought before satan and have been given a death sentence.
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
The whole world is under the spell of satan, but you refuse to bow to the fake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
You see? You belong to God. You shall live forever, no death.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.
Endure to the end friend!
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The stage has been set! but still no rapture. You better be getting on your way out of there now.
HE IS TELLING US WHEN WE WILL MAKE OUR ESCAPE!
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Just like Lot. The Lord did not fly him away He gave him a way out.
HE IS TELLING US WHERE AND HOW TO MAKE OUR ESCAPE!
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Vengeance is the Lords. It has begun.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Do you really think God is going to punish people for being parents? God forbid. He's warning those that have already partaken in the spiritual wedding with the false christ. Those that are not spiritually virgins. His bride shall be a virgin, not with child!
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The labor pains of the earth begin and Gods bride shall rejoice and those that took pleasure in unrighteousness woe unto you. Your fake marriage is over.
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He's coming with a great multitude of angels; a cloud
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Blessed be the Messiah, our Redeemer forever and ever Amen
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Ok, Ok don't get excited now we have a parable so now we are going back and looking at more events before our Lords coming. This is not after the events of verse 28. The parable of the fig tree can be lengthy so a complete study is better suited for another time.
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Study the word so you know whats going to happen and search the scriptures.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
But not you friend, for you let yourself receive the love of the truth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
He told us how to escape, not by flying away like a bunch of ducks in the winter but rather you shall STAND! The Lord told us what to look for and when to flee and said fear not. He shall protect us. STAND! and receive the love of Christ! Forever and ever Amen
Lets look at the rest of 2 Thes ch2 and see what else Paul tells us.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The snare is already being prepared with the false rapture doctrine. Did you think God would not know of this?
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9{Even him}, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The texts omit 'Even him'. Paul warns us again Christ is coming after satan to destroy him and the temple. Then he goes on to document as Christ repeatedly did, that satan shall have supernatural abilities to fool people during his false reign.
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is the strong delusion God will send? He is going to cast satan down and let him deceive the whole world and those that have not accepted what He wrote to us. You have all this evidence and you insist on believing the false rapture doctrine and for this you shall be unprepared and partake in the false wedding.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Praise God! for this is His plan.
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For those with ears that hear.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Did He say fly? No! He said STAND fast! Hold the traditions of men? No! Hold the traditions of His word and epistle that the word taught you!
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Blessed is the name of the Lord Forever and ever Amen
17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Peace unto you in Jesus Christ
37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
I don't have time to do a full response to everything that was said after my initial post. I said in my first post that it would likely be my only because I assumed this would happen.
I do find it ironic that those who claim we twist scriptures to support the rapture are now twisting my words and the scriptures I referenced to make them say things neither I nor those scriptures ever said. Anyone who read my post will should be able to see that quite clearly.
One person tried to say that anything Jesus didn't say in the gospels isn't worth bothering with... EVERYTHING in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, are the words of Jesus. If the rest weren't worth bothering with, why did God inspire anyone to write it in the first place? Why did God preserve those words against such vehement persecution? It would have been far easier to just preserve the four gospels. The notion is so absurd that I don’t know why I'm even responding to it.
And then another saying that escape meant the same as endure. Imagine two Jews in Germany before the war. One leaves right before Hitler takes power, while the other gets stuck in the middle of the war and had to hide out to survive. Both survive. Which one would you say escaped all and which would you say endured all? To claim that Jesus saying escape meant the same as enduring it all and coming out alive is most certainly ignoring the plain text of scripture.
This will be my last post in this thread unless God leads me otherwise. Anyone who reads what I have already posted and the responses thereto will be able to easily see the plain sense of scripture and the lengths some have gone to twist both the verses and my words.
As I said in those previous posts; my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ admonished me to pray always that I might be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL of the tribulation and events leading up to it, and he promised that those who were worthy would be kept from that hour of trial. That is my prayer, my hope and my expectation.
May the Lord grant all of us the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him as we seek understanding from his word. To him be all the glory!
I do find it ironic that those who claim we twist scriptures to support the rapture are now twisting my words and the scriptures I referenced to make them say things neither I nor those scriptures ever said. Anyone who read my post will should be able to see that quite clearly.
One person tried to say that anything Jesus didn't say in the gospels isn't worth bothering with... EVERYTHING in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, are the words of Jesus. If the rest weren't worth bothering with, why did God inspire anyone to write it in the first place? Why did God preserve those words against such vehement persecution? It would have been far easier to just preserve the four gospels. The notion is so absurd that I don’t know why I'm even responding to it.
And then another saying that escape meant the same as endure. Imagine two Jews in Germany before the war. One leaves right before Hitler takes power, while the other gets stuck in the middle of the war and had to hide out to survive. Both survive. Which one would you say escaped all and which would you say endured all? To claim that Jesus saying escape meant the same as enduring it all and coming out alive is most certainly ignoring the plain text of scripture.
This will be my last post in this thread unless God leads me otherwise. Anyone who reads what I have already posted and the responses thereto will be able to easily see the plain sense of scripture and the lengths some have gone to twist both the verses and my words.
As I said in those previous posts; my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ admonished me to pray always that I might be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL of the tribulation and events leading up to it, and he promised that those who were worthy would be kept from that hour of trial. That is my prayer, my hope and my expectation.
May the Lord grant all of us the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him as we seek understanding from his word. To him be all the glory!
M
Its too bad you don't have the time to put forth your point of view Soldier. Maybe it's for the best since we are looking to document views with the word and so far with all the writing you've done you only provided two scriptures pertaining to the false rapture and they weren't even written together in the same book or chapter. We aren't interested in parables of two jews in Germany or any other parables and writings of man. We want to hear parables and writings of Christ.
Maybe it's best you bow out and hold on to your two scriptures. Perhaps if you did the story about Lot instead of two jews I would of listened.
Maybe it's best you bow out and hold on to your two scriptures. Perhaps if you did the story about Lot instead of two jews I would of listened.
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M
It was long because it was filled with alot of verses to understand the entire picture Christ was trying show us. The Bible is long and has many verses, now I can see why you are having problems. You and the other one verse charlies want to pull out a verse by itself here, pluck one there. Pretty soon you got 3 or 4 verse scattered from all over the place and try to make a doctrine out of it. Once again to the 'I'm right, you're wrong' crowd please bring scripture back your views.
M
I don't know who said endure meant escape but there's one thing about your little parable that makes in completely invalid. The whole world shall be in the great tribulation. Now God's wrath will be poured out on those who follow the first beautiful angel to come along(satan). Those that partake in the unholy wedding will be punished. Since you already conceded in saying that a partial rapture existed yet others will remain then how do you suppose that they endure till the end and escape form being killed by God's wrath? The answer is very simple, they endure the great tribulation and escape from God's wrath. I think in your mind you confuse going through the great tribulation with God's wrath. The word says at the END of the great tribulation is when God pours out his wrath on the unrighteous and his virgin bride shall be gathered together unto him.
N
Wow... so much to say regarding something written very little of in Scripture. If the importance was so great, would not there be more written in Scripture about it and much more clearly spoken of? Should not our focus be how we live and walk in this earth and how we are here to serve others and share the Gospel message rather than focusing on flying away?
In Christ,
David John (NewJerusalem)
In Christ,
David John (NewJerusalem)
M
You must not be aware of how much scripture there is concerning it. I don't think Paul could of possibly made it much clearer in 2Thes ch2. Christ spoke of many things in parables so that not all would understand, my friend. The great tribulation fast approaches, you might live to see it my friend, and it shall effect peoples salvation. Did Paul and Christ waste their breath and speak empty words when they were warning us? Heaven forbid.
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N
was Paul mistaken to believe it was to happen in his day and his hearers day? Scripture obviously records that Paul expected this to happen in his lifetime or at the very least in his contemporaries lifetime. If he was mistaken in this, how can we believe anything he preached to be true? Maybe there is much more here than meets the eye. Perhaps something is being missed. I suggest we all take a deeper look and search to see if such things are so.
I also believe "tribulation" is coming, however THE (great) Tribulation as recorded in Matthew 24 took place just when Jesus said it would, or was Jesus also mistaken?
Search to see if such things are so.
I also believe "tribulation" is coming, however THE (great) Tribulation as recorded in Matthew 24 took place just when Jesus said it would, or was Jesus also mistaken?
Search to see if such things are so.
M
Let me straighten this out because 'escape' is not just talking about God's wrath. Lets bring the verse back that you thought was referring to rature and we'll add the prior verse to get a better understanding:
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
See how easy it is when you start putting verses together instead of isolating them so you can understand them in context? Christ is talking about escaping the snare. Whose snare? Satan's snare of course. What was he talking in the prior 34 verses, the great tribulation. Was he talking about escaping from when the Son of man returns in verses 27 and 28? No he's talking about the trap satan has set! If you are gone before the tribulation begins then how are you going to escape that trap satan has set for us? It's amazing what happens when you start putting the verses together.
Praise God
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
See how easy it is when you start putting verses together instead of isolating them so you can understand them in context? Christ is talking about escaping the snare. Whose snare? Satan's snare of course. What was he talking in the prior 34 verses, the great tribulation. Was he talking about escaping from when the Son of man returns in verses 27 and 28? No he's talking about the trap satan has set! If you are gone before the tribulation begins then how are you going to escape that trap satan has set for us? It's amazing what happens when you start putting the verses together.
Praise God
I realize what happens to many of you. Some of you are pastors and preachers in churches and there is no way the congregation will stick around if you try to teach this truth for they are as stubborn as you. Others refuse to believe that their church leaders have been mislead for so long and all their family and loved ones are not aware of this truth. It's very sad that this lie is clung onto tooth and nail when there is virtually no scripture to back it. Believe me when I tell you I have an openness of mind concerning our gathering to Christ. This is not just some argument to win, if the scriptures told of a rapture I would praise God and say lets go. Those scriptures simply don't exist. They don't exist. There is none. To those that are teachers of the word I beg that you re-examine the word without any preconceptions. You are responsible for educating your church with sound doctrine. The tribulation is fast approaching and I would hate to see you lead your congregation straight into satans arms.
I pray you find that truth that He has given us and you have the strength to make that difference in the endtimes that those deceived are not lost but receive the love of the truth in Jesus Christ's precious name, Amen
I pray you find that truth that He has given us and you have the strength to make that difference in the endtimes that those deceived are not lost but receive the love of the truth in Jesus Christ's precious name, Amen
M
You will have to show me where he makes it obvious it will happen in their lifetime. He simply emphasizes the nearness of that coming. Paul knew his letters would be handed down to future generations of Thessalonians. Christ taught in Luke 21 to those who asked Him when will that day come and He told them even though they wouldn't be alive to see it. Are you saying Christ didn't know?
There is only on Tribulation. The Great Tribulation.
The subject of Matthew 24:
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
You really think the second advent of Christ has happened and the world and the world has ended?
First you question whether Paul was mistaken and above that you go on to question whether Jesus was mistaken.
Something is not right.
There is only on Tribulation. The Great Tribulation.
The subject of Matthew 24:
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
You really think the second advent of Christ has happened and the world and the world has ended?
First you question whether Paul was mistaken and above that you go on to question whether Jesus was mistaken.
Something is not right.
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C
If you are familiar with scripture you will that scripture reads that God will not do anything that he won't first reveal to His prophets (which I believe is found in Amos). While I certainly don't profess to be a prophet (and I'm pretty sure that the other post tribbers here feel the same), I do know that we can look to the Old Testament (the time of the prophets) to look for Parallels / foreshadows of New Testament events with Jesus Christ being the central figure who fullfills those peophecies.
As for the "book of revelation", how many of you realize that the book's official title is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (as given to us by the John, the beloved apostle). If we understand both scripture and prophecy we know that "The OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed" which means we can find numerous prarallels concerning things that had already come to pass in the NT as well as things that have been promised but have yet to occur.
Through out the OT you will find numerous occurances that point directly at Jesus and the Crucifixion (ei. the First coming of Christ). If you are familiar with scripture then you would also know that that the number of OT prophecies given which speak about Christs swecond coming far outnumber those that revealed His first coming, so it only makes sense that God would reveal to His prophets beforehand the events which will involve His second coming. God has and it is called the Exodus. UIn exodus not only will you find many parallels as to the plagues and judgements of God, you will also find where Moses ascended up the mountain where God Himseld descend onto the Mountain and they met in what could be easily viewd as a foreshadow of the rapture. In fact, Moses' face glowed for days and possibly weeks on end after the confrontaion, a foreshadow itself of the ressurected body).
Guys, the OT is filled with foreshadows, parallels and prophecies concerning events which are tyo come. We just have to be able to rightly divide the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance in doing so. The last thing we need to do is to begin to pull scripture out of context then try to reassemble those scriptures to mean something that they originally did not. I call this "cut and paste christianity" and it is very VERY dangerous. Just ask the survivors of the Jonestown masacre!
As for the "book of revelation", how many of you realize that the book's official title is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (as given to us by the John, the beloved apostle). If we understand both scripture and prophecy we know that "The OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed" which means we can find numerous prarallels concerning things that had already come to pass in the NT as well as things that have been promised but have yet to occur.
Through out the OT you will find numerous occurances that point directly at Jesus and the Crucifixion (ei. the First coming of Christ). If you are familiar with scripture then you would also know that that the number of OT prophecies given which speak about Christs swecond coming far outnumber those that revealed His first coming, so it only makes sense that God would reveal to His prophets beforehand the events which will involve His second coming. God has and it is called the Exodus. UIn exodus not only will you find many parallels as to the plagues and judgements of God, you will also find where Moses ascended up the mountain where God Himseld descend onto the Mountain and they met in what could be easily viewd as a foreshadow of the rapture. In fact, Moses' face glowed for days and possibly weeks on end after the confrontaion, a foreshadow itself of the ressurected body).
Guys, the OT is filled with foreshadows, parallels and prophecies concerning events which are tyo come. We just have to be able to rightly divide the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance in doing so. The last thing we need to do is to begin to pull scripture out of context then try to reassemble those scriptures to mean something that they originally did not. I call this "cut and paste christianity" and it is very VERY dangerous. Just ask the survivors of the Jonestown masacre!
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