Rapture= false teaching

[freeman4]

It is sad that it wouldn't really matter what was posted on the subject of the Rapture, there are those who would see it different, even when the scripture would be specific. Everyone has their own ideas or they don't want to see it some other way because of fear. Some say they don't want to fly away in the clouds. Some say they don't want to stay here on this Earth. The truth is people don't really get down and study to really see what is correct, so they just wave it off and say, what the heck, what ever comes, will come.


God is not a concealing God, He is a revealing God. And does reveal to those to whom will really study this subject or any other subject, the truth of the matter. Not just the way they want it to be.And because there are many different ways that people look at this you know they are ALL right. Most individuals don't want to study and they take at face value what others say. That is sad. As time gets closer for the Great Tribulation and no one is Raptured off to somewhere, will be a wake up call.

freeman:

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Some say they don't want to fly away in the clouds.

We will all meet Christ in the air however, the marriage supper of the lamb isn't a going away party but rather a homecoming celebration!

 

[miktre]

It is sad that it wouldn't really matter what was posted on the subject of the Rapture, there are those who would see it different, even when the scripture would be specific. Everyone has their own ideas or they don't want to see it some other way because of fear. Some say they don't want to fly away in the clouds. Some say they don't want to stay here on this Earth. The truth is people don't really get down and study to really see what is correct, so they just wave it off and say, what the heck, what ever comes, will come.


God is not a concealing God, He is a revealing God. And does reveal to those to whom will really study this subject or any other subject, the truth of the matter. Not just the way they want it to be.And because there are many different ways that people look at this you know they are ALL right. Most individuals don't want to study and they take at face value what others say. That is sad. As time gets closer for the Great Tribulation and no one is Raptured off to somewhere, will be a wake up call.

freeman:

Show us the scripture where it says you will be raptured away and won't be here throughout the tribulation. Once again will the 'I'm right, your wrong' crowd please bring some scripture with you to back your views. They usually don't because they don't exist. Now I will re-post my last study so you can read and bring a response.

 

[miktre]

If you are familiar with scripture you will that scripture reads that God will not do anything that he won't first reveal to His prophets (which I believe is found in Amos). While I certainly don't profess to be a prophet (and I'm pretty sure that the other post tribbers here feel the same), I do know that we can look to the Old Testament (the time of the prophets) to look for Parallels / foreshadows of New Testament events with Jesus Christ being the central figure who fullfills those peophecies.

As for the "book of revelation", how many of you realize that the book's official title is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (as given to us by the John, the beloved apostle). If we understand both scripture and prophecy we know that "The OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed" which means we can find numerous prarallels concerning things that had already come to pass in the NT as well as things that have been promised but have yet to occur.

Through out the OT you will find numerous occurances that point directly at Jesus and the Crucifixion (ei. the First coming of Christ). If you are familiar with scripture then you would also know that that the number of OT prophecies given which speak about Christs swecond coming far outnumber those that revealed His first coming, so it only makes sense that God would reveal to His prophets beforehand the events which will involve His second coming. God has and it is called the Exodus. UIn exodus not only will you find many parallels as to the plagues and judgements of God, you will also find where Moses ascended up the mountain where God Himseld descend onto the Mountain and they met in what could be easily viewd as a foreshadow of the rapture. In fact, Moses' face glowed for days and possibly weeks on end after the confrontaion, a foreshadow itself of the ressurected body).

Guys, the OT is filled with foreshadows, parallels and prophecies concerning events which are tyo come. We just have to be able to rightly divide the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance in doing so. The last thing we need to do is to begin to pull scripture out of context then try to reassemble those scriptures to mean something that they originally did not. I call this "cut and paste christianity" and it is very VERY dangerous. Just ask the survivors of the Jonestown masacre!

When Moses acceded up the mountain don't you think He just climbed it? I don't think his feet left the ground or he wouldn't of haft to take his sandals off. Also I already documented in reost #749 that heaven is coming to us not us flying up to heaven.

 

[miktre]

Repost for Freeman4

​

I wanted to add a little more commentary about the testimony that we will be giving and inserted scripture from Paul. We document that Christ and Paul never gave a different account about our gathering together unto Him. We establish that not only is there not a rapture, but God is set against the the false rapture teaching. Also I fixed some typos

Lets look at the entirety of Luke 21 and see the entire picture Christ gives us.

1And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Establishes that Christ is in the temple at this time. The meaning of the rich men and the poor widow has to do with the corruption that has befallen the Temple 'Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves' Who is the chief of thieves? That would be satan. Not only is he corrupting with the rich men and their money he will try to steal the poor woman's living soul.

5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
So we know why and now we are going to find out when the temple shall be destroyed.

8.And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
'for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ' Who shall be coming in the endtimes? Satan and the fallen angels shall come, the same ones He spoke of in Mt 24:24 the same ones He said that will have supernatural abilities. Then He says 'the time draweth near' but it is not time yet. No rapture yet.

Here we find Pauls writing aligns perfectly with Christ's. It documents that satan is sitting in the temple of God and is being worshipped as if he was God. It goes on to state that and we SHALL NOT be gathered together unto Christ until the man of sin(satan) the phoney christ be revealed.
2 THES ch2 1-6
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul tells us right here that you now know what is going to happen, why would anyone believe differently?

9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Fear not friend. God will provide, for these things must happen but still no end yet. Still no mention of a rapture.

10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
You still have nothing to fear.

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Wait a second, now follow closely, the Lord goes back here and tells you what will happen before the events of the last three verses. You shall be delivered up for his names sake because you refuse to worship the false christ. Still no rapture yet to be mentioned.

13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
If God can't use you what good are you? He wants to use you to testify! In verse 12 it's says we shall be delivered up before synagogues, into prisons, and before kings and rulers. Now who is the great beast at the head of all this? It is satan in the endtimes, that's when you shall be given and deliver this testimony by the Holy Spirit.

14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Don't even plan what you are gonna say, the Holy Spirit shall fill you and give you the words to say in that day. Still no rapture yet.

16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Even your own family might be deceived because they believe that this is Christ when its really satan. 'and some of you shall they cause to be put to death' death is another name of satan[hebrews 2:14] It doesn't say you are dead but you are brought before satan and have been given a death sentence.

17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
The whole world is under the spell of satan, but you refuse to bow to the fake.

18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
You see? You belong to God. You shall live forever, no death.

19In your patience possess ye your souls.
Endure to the end friend!

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The stage has been set! but still no rapture. You better be getting on your way out of there now.
HE IS TELLING US WHEN WE WILL MAKE OUR ESCAPE!

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Just like Lot. The Lord did not fly him away He gave him a way out.
HE IS TELLING US WHERE AND HOW TO MAKE OUR ESCAPE!

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Vengeance is the Lords. It has begun.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Do you really think God is going to punish people for being parents? God forbid. He's warning those that have already partaken in the spiritual wedding with the false christ. Those that are not spiritually virgins. His bride shall be a virgin, not with child!

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The labor pains of the earth begin and Gods bride shall rejoice and those that took pleasure in unrighteousness woe unto you. Your fake marriage is over.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He's coming with a great multitude of angels; a cloud

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Blessed be the Messiah, our Redeemer forever and ever Amen

29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Ok, Ok don't get excited now we have a parable so now we are going back and looking at more events before our Lords coming. This is not after the events of verse 28. The parable of the fig tree can be lengthy so a complete study is better suited for another time.

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Study the word so you know whats going to happen and search the scriptures.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
But not you friend, for you let yourself receive the love of the truth.

36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
He told us how to escape, not by flying away like a bunch of ducks in the winter but rather you shall STAND! The Lord told us what to look for and when to flee and said fear not. He shall protect us. STAND! and receive the love of Christ! Forever and ever Amen

Lets look at the rest of 2 Thes ch2 and see what else Paul tells us.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The snare is already being prepared with the false rapture doctrine. Did you think God would not know of this?

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9{Even him}, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The texts omit 'Even him'. Paul warns us again Christ is coming after satan to destroy him and the temple. Then he goes on to document as Christ repeatedly did, that satan shall have supernatural abilities to fool people during his false reign.

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is the strong delusion God will send? He is going to cast satan down and let him deceive the whole world and those that have not accepted what He wrote to us. You have all this evidence and you insist on believing the false rapture doctrine and for this you shall be unprepared and partake in the false wedding.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Praise God! for this is His plan.

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For those with ears that hear.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Did He say fly? No! He said STAND fast! Hold the traditions of men? No! Hold the traditions of His word and epistle that the word taught you!

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Blessed is the name of the Lord Forever and ever Amen

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Peace unto you in Jesus Christ

37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

When Moses acceded up the mountain don't you think He just climbed it? I don't think his feet left the ground or he wouldn't of haft to take his sandals off. Also I already documented in reost #749 that heaven is coming to us not us flying up to heaven.

yes moses climbed the mountain however, the act was clearly symbolic of something much deeper, in the same manner as the "serpent on a pole" reflecting Christ bearing our sins on the cross.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Repost for Freeman4​

I wanted to add a little more commentary about the testimony that we will be giving and inserted scripture from Paul. We document that Christ and Paul never gave a different account about our gathering together unto Him. We establish that not only is there not a rapture, but God is set against the the false rapture teaching. Also I fixed some typos

Lets look at the entirety of Luke 21 and see the entire picture Christ gives us.

1And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Establishes that Christ is in the temple at this time. The meaning of the rich men and the poor widow has to do with the corruption that has befallen the Temple 'Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves' Who is the chief of thieves? That would be satan. Not only is he corrupting with the rich men and their money he will try to steal the poor woman's living soul.

5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
So we know why and now we are going to find out when the temple shall be destroyed.

8.And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
'for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ' Who shall be coming in the endtimes? Satan and the fallen angels shall come, the same ones He spoke of in Mt 24:24 the same ones He said that will have supernatural abilities. Then He says 'the time draweth near' but it is not time yet. No rapture yet.

Here we find Pauls writing aligns perfectly with Christ's. It documents that satan is sitting in the temple of God and is being worshipped as if he was God. It goes on to state that and we SHALL NOT be gathered together unto Christ until the man of sin(satan) the phoney christ be revealed.
2 THES ch2 1-6
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul tells us right here that you now know what is going to happen, why would anyone believe differently?

9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Fear not friend. God will provide, for these things must happen but still no end yet. Still no mention of a rapture.

10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
You still have nothing to fear.

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Wait a second, now follow closely, the Lord goes back here and tells you what will happen before the events of the last three verses. You shall be delivered up for his names sake because you refuse to worship the false christ. Still no rapture yet to be mentioned.

13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
If God can't use you what good are you? He wants to use you to testify! In verse 12 it's says we shall be delivered up before synagogues, into prisons, and before kings and rulers. Now who is the great beast at the head of all this? It is satan in the endtimes, that's when you shall be given and deliver this testimony by the Holy Spirit.

14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Don't even plan what you are gonna say, the Holy Spirit shall fill you and give you the words to say in that day. Still no rapture yet.

16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Even your own family might be deceived because they believe that this is Christ when its really satan. 'and some of you shall they cause to be put to death' death is another name of satan[hebrews 2:14] It doesn't say you are dead but you are brought before satan and have been given a death sentence.

17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
The whole world is under the spell of satan, but you refuse to bow to the fake.

18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
You see? You belong to God. You shall live forever, no death.

19In your patience possess ye your souls.
Endure to the end friend!

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The stage has been set! but still no rapture. You better be getting on your way out of there now.
HE IS TELLING US WHEN WE WILL MAKE OUR ESCAPE!

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Just like Lot. The Lord did not fly him away He gave him a way out.
HE IS TELLING US WHERE AND HOW TO MAKE OUR ESCAPE!

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Vengeance is the Lords. It has begun.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Do you really think God is going to punish people for being parents? God forbid. He's warning those that have already partaken in the spiritual wedding with the false christ. Those that are not spiritually virgins. His bride shall be a virgin, not with child!

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The labor pains of the earth begin and Gods bride shall rejoice and those that took pleasure in unrighteousness woe unto you. Your fake marriage is over.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He's coming with a great multitude of angels; a cloud

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Blessed be the Messiah, our Redeemer forever and ever Amen

29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Ok, Ok don't get excited now we have a parable so now we are going back and looking at more events before our Lords coming. This is not after the events of verse 28. The parable of the fig tree can be lengthy so a complete study is better suited for another time.

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Study the word so you know whats going to happen and search the scriptures.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
But not you friend, for you let yourself receive the love of the truth.

36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
He told us how to escape, not by flying away like a bunch of ducks in the winter but rather you shall STAND! The Lord told us what to look for and when to flee and said fear not. He shall protect us. STAND! and receive the love of Christ! Forever and ever Amen

Lets look at the rest of 2 Thes ch2 and see what else Paul tells us.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The snare is already being prepared with the false rapture doctrine. Did you think God would not know of this?

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9{Even him}, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The texts omit 'Even him'. Paul warns us again Christ is coming after satan to destroy him and the temple. Then he goes on to document as Christ repeatedly did, that satan shall have supernatural abilities to fool people during his false reign.

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is the strong delusion God will send? He is going to cast satan down and let him deceive the whole world and those that have not accepted what He wrote to us. You have all this evidence and you insist on believing the false rapture doctrine and for this you shall be unprepared and partake in the false wedding.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Praise God! for this is His plan.

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For those with ears that hear.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Did He say fly? No! He said STAND fast! Hold the traditions of men? No! Hold the traditions of His word and epistle that the word taught you!

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Blessed is the name of the Lord Forever and ever Amen

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Peace unto you in Jesus Christ

37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

Mike, I'm afraid I must disagree with you. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be a rapture however, the purpose of the rapture is not to remove the saints from the earth for a period of seven years during the great tribulation.

I do agree that the saints will be on earth for the vast majority of tribulation. However, scripture plainly indicates that we will meet Christ in the air. It is at that moment that well be transformed in a twinkling of an eye into our ressurected bodies as God pours out his wrath upon the world (the seven bowls).

 

[miktre]

Mike, I'm afraid I must disagree with you. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be a rapture however, the purpose of the rapture is not to remove the saints from the earth for a period of seven years during the great tribulation.

I do agree that the saints will be on earth for the vast majority of tribulation. However, scripture plainly indicates that we will meet Christ in the air. It is at that moment that well be transformed in a twinkling of an eye into our ressurected bodies as God pours out his wrath upon the world (the seven bowls).

It's fine that you disagree but try to bring some scriptural verses with you as to why. Too much I'm right, your wrong going on. The Bible said we will be transfigured in the twinkling of an eye. So now you haft to ask yourself how is God's wrath going to hurt you in a spiritual body?

 

[miktre]

ChristsArmorBearer here is the material I posted earlier concerning the post-trib rapture. If you want to respond then please bring scripture.


Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:

• The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.

This is also in error, but they are the closest to the truth out of all Rapture theories. But they fall off right at the end. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) and that they will be here for the time of the false messiah antichrist. Then they make a nonsensical statement, they say that they will be Raptured up into the clouds at the end of the Tribulation and then turn right around and come back with Jesus at His Second Advent - this makes no sense at all!
This version errs in that they feel that only a portion of the people on the planet (the 'Church') will be removed before the wrath of God, which in fact commences the "Day of the Lord." But there is no selective removal before God's wrath is executed on the ungodly. The 'Church' witnesses the destruction of the ungodly but is itself protected from it. Observe this Scripture showing that some are destroyed while others yet REMAIN and witness that destruction of the ungodly: "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." {Rev 11:13}.

17 Then#1 we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them#2 in the clouds#3, to meet the Lord in the air#4:

Explanation of above: #1Then: = When?? - At the seventh trump! {Rev 11:15} - at the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. #2 with them: = Who?? - Those who are already in their spirit bodies - Those who died in the flesh from the beginning of time, who went instantly went back to the Father at the time of their individual deaths. So far so good, now the interpretation of the next two words ('clouds' and 'air') are the 'foundation' [built on sand] of their Rapture doctrines. A whole doctrine built up around two words taken out of context! #3 clouds: = The Rapturist believes this 'clouds' to be like 'rain clouds.' Language lexicons are of little help with this word as it ultimately has two different meanings:

clouds: Greek word #3507 nephele (nef-el'-ay); from #3509; properly, cloudiness, i.e. (concretely) a cloud.
Cloud: #3509 nephos- a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng; a).used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapor obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapor with some form or shape; b). a cloud in the sky
​

Above we see that the word can mean either a 'cloud in the sky' or a dense multitude or throng (of people). As I said, the Lexicons are not specific enough here for us to 'hang our hat on,' so to speak. However, there is another resource available to us to secure the proper meaning of the word 'cloud' as it is used here, and that is Scripture itself. We shall let the Bible translate itself. The word "Cloud" #3509 'nephos' whence comes our word 'clouds' is used in only one place in the entire Bible, this will remove any ambiguity with the word usage.
Apostle Paul wrote our Scripture here in 1st Thessalonians, he also wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the book of Hebrews that Paul used the word "cloud #3509." Paul was a Hebrew from the Tribe of Benjamin, but he also spoke Greek and was a naturalized Roman citizen. However, the Greek he spoke was colloquial Greek (or 'street Greek'). This word 'clouds', as it is used here by Paul is a figure of speech, meaning a large group, used also by Paul in {Heb12:1},supplied below for your comparison:

Heb 12:1(Paul's use of the word 'cloud' as a figure of speech)
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)
​

Like I said, Paul was using a colloquialism (figure of speech). Paul no more meant that those would meet Jesus in a 'rain cloud' than he meant that the people above would stage a foot-race on a 'rain-cloud.' The use of the word 'cloud' or 'clouds' in these two Scriptures means a crowd, a great multitude, a vast collection, or dense for multitude of people, as in a "cloud of locusts," or, a "cloud of mosquitoes."
Also, when Jesus Christ returns at his second Advent he will be accompanied by an innumerable host of Angels {Rev 19:11-16}. Below, that innumerable host of Angels is referred to as 'clouds.' Jesus isn't coming on or in water clouds, He is coming with clouds of Angels, so many that they will cloud the sky and can not be counted for their multitude:

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)
​

Ok, now our last word in this Scripture: #4 air: = I don't even have to tell you how the Rapturist interprets this word. But the word doesn't mean 'air' like in the sky (for you even have 'air' in your basement). But rather it is the spirit of life air, the pneuma, as in a pneumatic tire (whence we get the word pneumatic). It is the animation of the body, the life, the spirit. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament this word finds it's equivalent in 'neshamah,' which is what God blew into Adam's nostrils and he became a living being. The word means "the breath of life." Below we shall provide definitions in both Greek and Hebrew of this "breath of life" or "spirit":

Air: Greek word #109 aer (ah-ayr'); from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient)
​

This is what God did into Adams nostrils, and through Christ we shall have the "breath of eternal life." The Hebrew counterpart for this word is:

breath of (life): Hebrew word #5397 neshamah (nesh-aw-maw'); from 5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: KJV-- blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit. Neshamah - The breath, the spirit; a) the breath (of God) b) the breath (of man) c) every breathing thing d) the spirit (of man).
​

Observe below:Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)

 

[watchmen]

Originally Posted by freeman4

Some say they don't want to fly away in the clouds.

We will all meet Christ in the air however, the marriage supper of the lamb isn't a going away party but rather a homecoming celebration!

Amen Armor, that is a great way to put it.

 

[kevin33]

1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
jesus also said are own sins will blind us after reading this maybe you should really look at yourself and ask god because i see the antichrist is coming first look at what president is preaching about religion a one world order do some research in books online watch the news also really search you heart and i think the vail will be lifted i feel sorry and pain forwhoever goes with this man

 

[kevin33]

i feel the same way but i think us true believers will see him for what he is jesus or the antichrist so really there are other things that are more important like god said argueing about a subject starts from sin

 

[oopsies]

Show us the scripture where it says you will be raptured away and won't be here throughout the tribulation. Once again will the 'I'm right, your wrong' crowd please bring some scripture with you to back your views. They usually don't because they don't exist. Now I will re-post my last study so you can read and bring a response.

Actually, they have in the early pages of the thread. Then the post-trib "I'm right, you're wrong" crowd came along. So if you want verses, click on page one and start reading.

 

[miktre]

Actually, they have in the early pages of the thread. Then the post-trib "I'm right, you're wrong" crowd came along. So if you want verses, click on page one and start reading.

You think I haven't clicked on page one? I started this thread, dear. Maybe I shall list every scripture that the rapurist have given as their supposed proof. There shouldn't be very many. I think I will do that. Also as you notice I myself provide plenty of scripture to document what the word tells us. It's far from simply 'I'm right, you're wrong'.

 

[watchmen]

Actually, they have in the early pages of the thread. Then the post-trib "I'm right, you're wrong" crowd came along. So if you want verses, click on page one and start reading.

There is absolutely NO, and I mean NO verses that teach the pretrib rapture. The only verses given have been Luke 21:36, and Revelation 3:10 neither of which say anything about the church being removed from the earth before the tribulation.

 

[kevin33]

listen to the words of his song its starts in was written in creed why doesnt he just say bible plus why did he change his name from peter santoro its all about how he lied as changed his name when he was younger to get into usa hes not here legally plus he cut down jesus in his speeches and preaching a one world religion this scares me deeply and if you watch that video in here that one world order predicts christ will appear in kenya his home town plus look at what the fda food administrative health borad approved a microchip for health records and its in oboma health report everyone needs it for the new health plan the swine flu wasnt that bad some towns were used to test the military action for gathering people just in case of marshall law they were practicing not to many people had the swine flu the media hyped it up and look at how many got sick with the shot not saying it didnt exsist god bless the souls that were lost cause of this tradgic flu but im scared i just came about this to and ive watched and study many things around him and he fullfills the antichrist predictions now whats going to happen at this meeting in copenhagen more money givin to him with false promises cause that all hes ever done is promise and try to act like hes a part of your life by saying feels our pain hes doesnt even know us the list goes on and on check out also ACORN the community he taught and worked for there in court for vote fraud hmm election rigged but people seem so blinded by his hope hes talks about hope alot and hasnt done anything really at all just empty promises and then he wins the noble peace prize for what the wars still on plus check out the suicide rate for our soldiers its at a all time high he using our own hate and revenge feelings about 9/11 to support a war were no matter what innocent people will die its sad but all i can say to oboma is HOPE wont feed you hope wont clothe you hope wont giveyou a job jesus is the only way and he is truth not hope

 

[oopsies]

You think I haven't clicked on page one? I started this thread, dear. Maybe I shall list every scripture that the rapurist have given as their supposed proof. There shouldn't be very many. I think I will do that. Also as you notice I myself provide plenty of scripture to document what the word tells us. It's far from simply 'I'm right, you're wrong'.

Then you haven't read them all. Don't forget to click the links too. I'm not going to hold your hand by re-posting things, dear.

There is absolutely NO, and I mean NO verses that teach the pretrib rapture. The only verses given have been Luke 21:36, and Revelation 3:10 neither of which say anything about the church being removed from the earth before the tribulation.

Hi. Who are you? Bye.

 

[watchmen]

There is no doubt in my mind that there will be a rapture however, the purpose of the rapture is not to remove the saints from the earth for a period of seven years during the great tribulation.

I do agree that the saints will be on earth for the vast majority of tribulation. However, scripture plainly indicates that we will meet Christ in the air. It is at that moment that well be transformed in a twinkling of an eye into our ressurected bodies as God pours out his wrath upon the world (the seven bowls).

Yes Armor there will be a rapture at the coming of Christ when Christ pours out His wrath on the woprld, as He is descending from Heaven to earth after the tribulation.

 

[watchmen]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.


The scriptural evidence of a post trib rapture that I have presented so far is overwhelming. Yet believe it or not there is more.

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, bretheren. by the coming of the Lord and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, and the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
In verse 1 Paul is speaking of two events. the coming of the Lord or '' The second coming'' and the gathering together unto him or '' the resurrection of the just and or rapture''. In verse 3 we see that Paul says these two event happen on a singular day ''That day''. Also in verse 3 Paul writes that that day could not happen until after the falling away takes place and the anti christ is revealed. Some pretrib preachers go as far as to say the falling away is the rapture, teaching that the rapture must come before the second coming. However the greek word for falling away is ''apostasia'', which literally means a turning from the truth. So the church itself will turn from the truth and then the anti christ will be revealed and then the rapture can take place, not before. This passage excludes the pretrib view because we know that the anti christ will not be revealed before the tribulation starts. Further more it proves the post trib view because it declares that the second coming and the rapture take place on the same day. These two events are not seven years apart, not three and a half years apart, not one year, one month or one day apart. They occur on the same exact day.

1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
When does Christ appear? At his post trib second coming. When shall we be like him? When we receive our heavenly bodies, which is at the resurrection of the just and or the rapture. So this verse actually says that we will be resurrected and or raptured to receive our heavenly immortal bodies at the post trib second coming.

Matthew 24:12-13
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Both of these passages say he that endures unto the end, shall be saved. Some teach that this means you must keep your faith until your death to get to heaven. Actually if you will notice, both of these passage are in chapters that are specifically explaining the events of the tribulation. In Matthew it says that iniquity will abound. In Mark it says we will be hated by all men for Christ's name sake. What these verse are telling us is that only those that do not turn from Christ during the tribulation will be saved. Those of us that endure until the very in shall be saved.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
It is only those that keep God's holy word until the very end that will reign with Christ during the Millennium.


1st Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stabblish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Notice when the end is, when Jesus returns. Also notice that it says Jesus will return with all His saints. This is impossible with a pretrib view. If Jesus raptures the righteous before the tribulation then return at the end of it with the raptured saints. The tribulational converts and ''Jewish saints'' would not be with Him. Therefore He would not be returning with all His saints. Although if He catches us up the righteous as he is returning with the dead in Christ as it say He will in 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18, to meet Him in the air, then come to earth with Him. He would be returning with all His saints.


Conclusion
I have given plenty of biblical proof, that not only is the post trib view obvious, but that all other views are biblically impossible. Either you believe in the pretrib rapture or you believe God's word, you can not do both. God's word tells us that the second coming is after the tribulation, that the resurrection of the just, as well as the rapture of the living saints, are both at the second coming. It tells us that the first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation and that the rapture comes after the resurrection. Further more the Bible tells us that the rapture is at the last trump and on the last day. We are also told for our need to endure until the very end.

So for you to continue to hold onto the pretrib view, you must insist that immediately after the tribulation actually means right before it starts. You also have to say that the first resurrection is not really the first resurrection, that the last trump isn't really the last trump, and that the same day means seven years apart. Sound funny when put that way, but believe or not there are those that teach just that, when confronted with the truth.

Call me crazy but I believe the Bible means what it says. When it says immediately after the tribulation, I believe it. When it says first resurrection, I believe it is talking about the first resurrection. When it says the last trump, I believe there will be no more trumpets sounded after that one. When the Bible says the rapture is on the same day as the second coming and that Jesus does not return until after the tribulation, I have no choice but to take God's word for it.

 

[giantone]

http://www.godfire.net/Rapture.html

Where the rapture theory realy came from.