Rapture= false teaching

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#82
Anyone that denies that Jesus Christ is God and denies that God came in the flesh to dwell among us, is according to the Apostle John the following...

1John 1:6-11 'And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds'.

Anyone that agrees with them or gives them God's speed is a partaker of their evil deeds. Look at the scriptures for yourself and come to your own determination. I am not condemning them, their own words do that. This is not a disagreement or personal sin, this is a complete outward and verbal denial that Jesus Christ who was crucified and shed His blood, was God in the flesh. It is between you and God how you treat them, but I'll take the scriptures over sentimentality everytime. If you want to spend more time trying to convince them, it is your business, but the word of God is very clear on that. Selah!
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#83
Anyone that denies that Jesus Christ is God and denies that God came in the flesh to dwell among us, is according to the Apostle John the following...

1John 1:6-11 'And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds'.

Anyone that agrees with them or gives them God's speed is a partaker of their evil deeds. Look at the scriptures for yourself and come to your own determination. I am not condemning them, their own words do that. This is not a disagreement or personal sin, this is a complete outward and verbal denial that Jesus Christ who was crucified and shed His blood, was God in the flesh. It is between you and God how you treat them, but I'll take the scriptures over sentimentality everytime. If you want to spend more time trying to convince them, it is your business, but the word of God is very clear on that. Selah!
I think you posted this in the wrong thread???????:confused:
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#84
This post is dead on :cool:
I hope you don't have a problem with following the scriptures all the way through? I followed your check points and have a few more follow-up questions here , if you don't mind.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#85
Rapture has absolutely no precedent in Christian history. It is an invention of a defrocked Anglican in the early 1800s. Completely a fabrication. It is heresy.
Don't make such a blanket statement made from your own ignorance. Not only is it unintelligent but it is unwise, without thought or reason and has no root in the scripture.
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#86
Don't make such a blanket statement made from your own ignorance. Not only is it unintelligent but it is unwise, without thought or reason and has no root in the scripture.
It sounds like yo are referring to the pretrib rapture, for it indeed has no root in scripture.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#87
Proverbs 1:22-33 (King James Version)

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Something every believer has to consider soberly in their own relationship and counsel with God.
 
M

miktre

Guest
#88
Introduction to the subject:

There is a 130 year old false doctrine that has grown by leaps and bounds in the the last 30 or so years within the various 'Protestant type' denominations of Christianity. And that is known as "The Rapture Of The Church." I refer to the churches that take part in it as 'Protestant type' because it is impossible to narrow it down to any one specific denominational belief. Unlike, say, the false doctrine of Purgatory, which is immediately identified as a Catholic dogma. Various forms and modifications of Rapture theories are followed by the Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Evangelical, Charismatic, Catholic Apostolic Churches (Irvingite sect), and others independent and hard to categorize. It is said that approximately 50% of Christian Churches teach some form of a Rapture Doctrine.
This false doctrine though veilled in it's tennants, we simply refer to as the 'Rapture Doctrine' or the 'Rapture Theory'. It incorporates many catch phrases such as the: "Rapture of the Saints", "Rapture of the Church", "Catching away of the Saints", "Taking up", "Gathering together in the clouds",....
These are all terms used by the Rapturist (one who believes in a Rapture theory) describing their belief that prior to the prophesied Second Advent of Jesus Christ, a certain group of Christian people will be pulled off the earth to meet the Lord in the sky. Then, depending on which of the many variations of the Rapture theory you go by, those left on the earth will suffer at the hands of an antichrist and his by then corrupted world for a period of 3½ or 7 years (or some say a shorter time). Then, they say, will come the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. This does violence to the Biblical end-time chronology (as well as Scripture) in a most irresponsible way.
The Second Advent of our Messiah Jesus Christ is in fact Biblically sound Doctrine, it will happen! However, the Rapture theory fabricates a pre-Second Advent advent, which is not in the Bible. In essence, what they have done is that they have made three advents out of the true two Advents of Jesus Christ as found in among other places, {Zech 9:9+10}. It is a falsehood created by man and added to God's Word. In this Bible study we will thoroughly debunk the Rapture lie and explain not only it's dubious origins, but also it's cause and effect, and the extreme danger that such a false doctrine poses for God's children.
It will be observed by the reader that the false Rapture doctrines so closely mimic the true plan of God for these end times that it is difficult for those not fully versed in the Scriptures to determine were the truth stops and the crafty lie starts, if the only Bible teaching that someone has received came from a Rapture teacher, does it not stand to reason that their every knowledge of Scripture will turn upon a 'Rapture of the Church' type interpretation? They probably mean well, but their discernment has been compromised by satan's lies slipped in among the truth; Oh how satan loves to blur the lines between the truth and a lie!: "Who changed the truth of God into a lie..." {Rom 1:25}.
The Rapture 'doctors' (those who create, fabricate, and perpetuate the many different Rapture theories) have searched the Bible over and have found a finite number of Scriptures that they were able to pull violently out of context, twist and mould, reshape and join unnaturally one to the other until they have formed a new product, a new doctrine, seemingly supported by Biblical Scripture, but in reality nothing more than satan's 'house of cards,' built on a foundation of sand, a perversion of God's true end-time plan. We shall also discover not only the satanic origin of such doctrines, but also the immediate spiritual danger to the Christian who is haphazardly seduced by the lie. It is our intention, with the Scriptures, to take down satan's 'house of cards' and and reveal the beautiful truth of God's Word that is standing right behind it, with and by the grace of God.
Satan(as the antichrist) has a plan to deceive every different 'group' of peoples, all different faiths and belief systems and each specific religion on the planet. Would you really think that satan would do it any other way?
In this present Bible study we shall only concern ourselves with satan's plan to deceive the 'Protestant type branches' of Christianity into worshiping him (satan) as the false messiah (antichrist). For as we shall discover through this study, the false Rapture theory is a plant from satan, it is a deception and a lie.
In port Glasgow, Scotland, in the Spring of the year A.D. 1830, a bedridden woman had a revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in where she was shown what has become to be known as "The Rapture Of The Church." Prior to this day, the concept of an 'at any moment, fly away doctrine' (Rapture) was unknown. Within the first few paragraphs of her monumental Scripture-riddled statement. Ms. Macdonald makes an ominous statement about her vision, in that at first, at the time of the vision, it felt as though there was "Great darkness" and "Error" about it. This is something they will not teach you from the false pulpits of the beguiled Rapture Churches. Christian beware!
Below, we have quoted from the first few paragraphs of her infamous 'Rapture of the Church' revelation, taken from Ms. Margaret Macdonald's own handwritten account of her 1830 pre-trib revelation, as included in Robert Norton's Memoirs of James & George Macdonald, of port-Glasgow (1840), pp. 171-176. And also found in The restoration of Apostles and prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), pp. 15-18. And also found in The incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A:
"I felt thisneeded to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light."
-- Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)


Ms. MacDonald then goes on to outline a series of 'visions' now known as the Rapture Doctrine. The spirit world is very real, but there is the Holy Spirit of God and there are satan's evil spirits, demons and the like. This is why the Bible strictly prohibits the conjuring up of spirits and communicating with the dead (Necromancy). Margaret Macdonald might well have been visited by a spirit on her sick bed that day, an evil spirit!
I Jn 4:1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (KJV)
Just as the young girl below who though she was visiting with the Mother Mary. Observe below as satan fulfils the Scripture: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" {2 Cor 11:14}:
"He was ugly, horribly ugly. You cannot imagine how ugly, he almost killed me with his gaze, I almost fainted. Then Satan went away and Our Lady came and said to me: "...renew the use of holy water, wear blessed objects and holy objects and put them in your homes.""
-- Mirjana Dragicevic, describing a Mother Mary Apparition


in Medjugorje Yugoslavia, on April 14, 1982.
For whatever reason, it just seems as though evil spirits have an affinity for women and children, evident by the majority of false 'Mother Mary' sightings being by women and children. You should find it no small coincidence that both the Rapture Doctrine and Mother Mary worship were channeled through demons in the same year, A.D. 1830; the Rapture doctrine in the Spring of 1830, and Marian worship on July 18, 1830.
Review of the first Marian Apparition: July 18,1830
Paris: The Miraculous Medal (1830): 1980 marked the 150th anniversary of the first modern appearances of the Blessed Virgin Mary. On July 18th, 1830, to Saint Catherine Laboure, then a young novice of the Sisters of Charity of Saint Vincent De Paul in Paris.
The year 1830 was indeed spiritually significant, however evil, in ways we probably will not ever fully comprehend. For along with the Rapture doctrine that shall take down the Rapturists, and the the Marian worship that is destroying the Catholic faithful, 1830 also witnessed the first publishing of the demonically channeled Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith and the founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cult, which among other things, teaches that Jesus Christ and Lucifer were brothers, and that we can all aspire to become gods (eerily reminiscent of New-Age theology).

But back to the Rapture theory, why did satan choose women to unleash two of his greatest deceptions (the Rapture theory & the worship of the deceased person Mother Mary) on the Christian Churches ? We can't know for sure other than that is their custom. In {1st Cor 11:10} the Bible warns women to have power (a covering to protect) on their heads to protect them from the angels. Women don't need protection from God's Angels, but from satan's Fallen Angels they do. I apologize for the digression, but it seemed like a good place to mention the danger females can be in during the end times. For the Lord God has said: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" {Hosea 4:6}!
Like I said, the Fallen Angels and evil spirits are perverted, and look at their influence in the world now, what with the incredible push for Church sanctioned homosexuality; And they will have it, and very soon at that! But the Bible warns us that the Fallen Angels are coming back in the final days: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" {Rev 12:9} (Locust Army). If this is something that you never have been taught nor have studied before then you ought to get started, for we are living in the final generation. But let's get back to the subject of satan disguising himself and deceiving the peoples:
2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformedinto an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (KJV)
Definition from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:
Transform: Greek word #3345 metaschematizo (met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo); from #3326 and a derivative of #4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively, to apply (by accommodation)
After Macdonald's vision was made known in town, two preachers heard of it, repackaged it as their own and sold it to the world. Hence, the ungodly Rapture 'Doctrine' is born in the Spring of A.D. 1830. There is some indication that the Roman Catholic Jesuit priesthood had some hand in this but as of now I cannot satisfactorily document this.
It seems that God's people just love to 'latch-on' to some new thing, some new revelation, some new doctrine. But in their desire to be 'special' or 'more inspired' than the next Christian they set them selves up to be deceived by satan. Satan works best within the vanities of man:
1 Tim 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (KJV)

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)
 
M

miktre

Guest
#89
Now as we have stated before, there are many variations of the Rapture theory. There is a Pre-millennial, an a-millennial, and a post-millennial Rapture theory. And then within the pre-millennial theory you have four further divisions: pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, and the two-stage Rapture. The very fact that they all can't even agree on when their Rapture will happen should raise a warning beacon to all intelligent Christians; As it is written: "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." {1 Cor 14:33}.

In this study we shall only cover briefly the differences in all the variations of the Rapture theory. It is not necessary to our study for us to distinguish every little thing different between all the Rapture theories because they are all wrong. Let me explain.

The Rapture theories all unanimously state that Christ shall remove certainChristians from the earth, and then at a later time He will come back and have His Second Advent and remove everyone else. They have fabricated a two-stage Second Advent! But as we shall learn in this study, when Jesus Christ does return at His Second Advent, all people living on the planet shall be changed into their spiritual body at the very same time, 'saint' and 'sinner' alike: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" {1st Cor 15:52} and the millennium period (the thousand years of Revelation 20:3-7 & Ezek chapter 38 onward) shall commence. After that comes Judgment day {Rev 20:12-13} and the casting into the Lake of Fire (Hell) of the evil ones {Rev 20:14-15}, and the eternal Heaven age for the overcomers {Rev 21:1-4}.
1 Cor 15:51-52(the Second Advent of Jesus Christ)51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)

You can see from the above Scripture that there is no secret Rapture of selected Christians, hence the use of the word "all" in verse 51. Those that sleep (dead) are raised first because it already had happened to them (raised to their spiritual body at the moment of their death, but they are yet to be judged) and we ALL who are alive at His coming are changed to our spiritual body at the return of Jesus Christ at His prophesied Second Advent.
You will also notice from verse 52 above that this event happens at the LAST TRUMP. There are only Seven Trumps {Rev 8:7-11:19}; the antichrist comes at the SIXTH Trump, and the true Jesus Christ returns at the SEVENTH Trump - the last Trump. We shall cover this verse more in depth later in this study, and we shall show that the Rapturist will be worshipping the great deceiver antichrist at the Sixth trump and sadly will be quite surprised when the True Christ returns at the Seventh Trump - to say the least! "Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not." {Luke 12:40}.
1Thes 5:1-4
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (KJV)

It says that that day won't overtake us as a thief in the night (unexpectedly), it does NOT say that that day will not overtake us at all! Why would God warn us, whom "are not in darkness" and whom "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" to be careful of Christ's return if we "brethren" are to already have been Raptured out before it happened? And if we are gone prior to the Second Advent then how could it be possible "that that day should overtake you as a thief"??? This Scripture is not written to un-saved sinners or to satan worshippers, or to Muslims, or to Hindus..., it is written to God's servants, brethren of Apostle Paul in Christianity. Why would God warn us if we weren't going to be here for the event?!? He would not!
The answer is because nobody is being Raptured out of anywhere! But many will be deceived into worshipping the false christ (antichrist - satan) because they haven't been taught that satan comes first claiming to the true Jesus Christ prior to the Second Advent. When satan comes here as the false messiah the Rapturist will have been conditioned to run up to him with open arms, for now, they will think, safety and salvation are here, it is their day for rewards and peace - or is it? The Scripture says: "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape" (verse 3 above). That is why God warned us.
They (those deceived) will even unknowingly deliver up their unbeliever relatives and people that will deny this false christ antichrist to satan for conversion, albeit they do so in ignorance; for they will think that they are interceding for them to the true Jesus: "And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death" {Luke 21:16}. This is the Great Tribulation spoken of, and that is where their false Rapture doctrines shall lead them. But the Rapturists aren't the only ones that the antichrist will deceive, it is written that he (satan - antichrist) "deceiveth the whole world" {Rev 12:9}.
There is a certain pitiful irony in the fact that they call their Rapture doctrine the "Rapture of the 'Saints'." I could point out that it is more than a little presumptuous to go around calling oneself a Saint.... Especially when the Rapture Saints will be worshipping satan (antichrist) when our True Messiah Jesus Christ returns to the earth at His prophesied Second Advent, although they will be doing so unawares.
These Rapturists are not evil satan worshipping people, they are good Christians who truly do love the Lord Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father, but they will do it in ignorance because they have allowed satan and his false ministers to deceive them with false non-Biblical teachings and the lies of men instead of the truth of God's Word. Even many ministers that teach Rapture doctrines simply teach what they have been taught and ignorantly pass on the lie like the plague - satan's plague.
We shall not even mention all the false religions of the planet, but will specifically concern ourselves with Christians in this study. The first Christians deceived by satan are the clergy, which has already been long since accomplished, the Seminaries have been compromised and teach much false doctrine. Then those ill taught clergy are used to deceive the rest of the world. It is their shame that the Scripture speaks of, as they realize that they have led their entire flock into the bed of satan: "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb" {Rev 6:16}. They really didn't mean to, sad isn't it? Have you ever wondered just who it is that runs and finances the Seminary Colleges that produce our Clergy.
But think about it, most Christians could not care less about studying God's Word, they find it easier to go to services once a week and swallow every word from the mystery man at the pulpit without checking it out for themselves in God's Word, the Bible. Satan can reach the whole world by deceiving and/or corrupting a small number of souls who are the teachers/preachers within all the world's religions including Christianity. Can you think of a more effective plan? And as it is written, satan DOES have a plan. God warns us of that plan in the Bible that we don't read, but rather we instead listen to satan's deceived false teachers/preachers - Duh!
Jer 5:30-3130 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? (KJV)

Hosea 6:9
9 And as troops of robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way by consent: for they commit lewdness. (KJV)

Don't get me wrong here, there are many good men and women of God who teach truth at any consequence, but then you also have those who teach whatever they are told to teach (by God knows who) for three meals a day, a room, and a pension. The Bible calls them 'hirelings" who forsake the flock {Jn 10:11-16}. Forsake God's children and He will forsake you!
Satan is no dummy, he revolted in the first earth age wherein he caused one third of the souls (God's children) to join him in revolt against God: "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven..." {Rev 12:4}. Satanfailed to overthrow God (of course!), and God abruptly ended that age {2nd pet 3:5-8} & {Jer 4:23-27}. But satan has fine-tuned his plan for this age, compare the"seven crowns" {Rev 12:3} to the "ten crowns" {Rev 13:1}. If you do not understand this, put it on a shelf in the back of your mind and let's continue on in this study.
Thank God that the He whom judges us: "knowest the hearts" {IKing 8:39}, and: "trieth the hearts" {Prov 17:3}, and: "pondereth the hearts" {Prov 21:2}, and: "knowest the hearts of all men" {Acts 1:24}, and:"searcheth the hearts" {Rom 8:27}. In other words, God not only looks at our actions, both good and bad, but He also takes into account why we did what we did. We are not to judge the souls of others, God judges, but we are to discern where there is false teaching going on so that we may escape the deception.
God is all knowing, and there is a certain innocence in ignorance; there are many sins that we each have committed in our lives that, if we knew then what we know now, we would not have done them. Forgiveness is freely given by the grace of God to ALL whom ask it in Jesus Christ's name. And there is only ONE The Unforgivable Sin.
If you have sinned, and we all do, then repent to God for that sin, in the name of Jesus Christ. It is just that simple, but it is certainly not free, for Jesus Christ paid an awesome price for our forgiveness! And yes, false teaching is a sin.
I suppose that perhaps it is tempting, even seducing to them maybe, to believe that they will be pulled off of this earth as such holy saints (Raptured) before the troublous times, before they must stand up for the Gospel, before they must put more into their faith than mere lip-service, tithes, and hymns, before they must stand for the true Christ against the antichrist, so that others, by their teaching and witnessing, might have access to the truth in the critical last days of this age during the final assault of that vile one satan upon the children of God, our brethren.
But where would we ourselves be today if John the Baptist was Raptured out before he suffered to preach Baptism and pave the way for the Messiah Jesus Christ, even baptizing Him? What if Apostle Paul wanted to be 'gathered in the sky' before he was to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles? And St. John, imagine if he insisted on partaking in a "catching away of the Saints" before he was arrested and imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos? Who would have written the book of Revelation - an unsaved sinner? A heathen? - I should think not! You get the idea; who will do God's work on the earth in the end times if all the believers are floating around on clouds?
There will be no Rapture, God's servants shall serve Him on this earth during the time of the antichrist. As for me, even if there was a Rapture, I wouldn't go, I would stand and fight for my Lord, God willing and with His grace of course. The Disciples all left Christ when He was betrayed and arrested in the Garden of Geth-sem'-a-ne. Will God's servants once again desert? I pray not, for Christ never deserted us, and God shall never leave nor forsake us.
God has always used man to help mankind, and when He did He strengthened them. God didn't need little David to slay Goliath. God didn't need Moses to lead His children out of captivity, but He used him, God didn't need Debra to defeat Sisera, but He used her. It's just the way God does things, he wants us to help each other, He wants us to care. But God is in control of all things, he always has been, he always will be. To Him we say: "Thy will be done" {Mat 6:10}!
 
M

miktre

Guest
#90
:God has always used man to help mankind, and when He did He strengthened them. God didn't need little David to slay Goliath, but to His glory He used him. God didn't need Moses to lead His children out of captivity, but He used him, God didn't need Debra to defeat Sisera, but He used her. It's just the way God does things, he wants us to help each other, He wants us to care. But God is in control of all things, he always has been, he always will be. To Him we say: "Thy will be done" {Mat 6:10}!
The Rapture according to them:
Rapture Positions Compared
This chart provides a simple comparison of the four general positions that are taken in reference to the timing of the Rapture in relation to Daniel's 70th Week - the seven-year period at the bottom.
Both the Pre-trib and Pre-wrath positions have question marks that indicate that there is no fixed time for when they say the Rapture will occur. Mid-trib places the Rapture at the halfway mark, or three-and-a-half years from the beginning of the 70th Week. Post-trib fixes the Rapture at the completion of the seven-year period.
Pre-Tribulational Rapturism:





This is by far, the most common viewpoint in America today among those who believe in any one of the many Rapture theories. It's roots can be traced back to 1830, although it did not really become prevalent in America until the early 1900's. Pre-trib teaches this:
  • The final 7-year period of the world is called the Tribulation.
  • The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation.
  • The entire 7-year period is considered the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.
  • Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, then the Church is Raptured prior to the 7-year period.
  • The Rapture is considered to be an "any moment" event.
This is wrong, wrong, wrong! The Tribulation is one event, it is the Great Tribulation:" For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." {Matt 24:21}. The 'Church' is protected by the Grace of God during the Tribulation: "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." {Heb 13:5} - It is not 'flown out' in some Rapture. They are confusing the wrath of God with the Tribulation of antichrist, God's wrath is not directed at the 'Church.' (The "Church" is the body of faithful believers, God's Elect). God's wrath occurs in the final minutes before the Millennium, and is His way of 'cleaning house,' so to speak.
Mid-Tribulation Rapturism:
This view is even more recent than pre-trib, becoming popular in 1941.





This view believes:
  • The final 7 year period of the world is called the Tribulation.
  • The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation.
  • The last 3.5 years are considered the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.
  • Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, then the Church is Raptured at the mid-way point.
This is wrong, wrong, wrong! The "Day of the Lord" is not the Tribulation, it is the end of it. The "Day of the Lord" is the thousand year period spoken of in {Rev 20:2-5} and referred to as the "Millennium," which begins at the Second Advent: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." {2 Pet 3:8}. And this Rapture version is also in error, as in the first version, in that the Tribulation is only one event! This view also confuses the wrath of God with the Tribulation of antichrist.
Pre-Wrath Rapturism:





This view believes:
  • The Day of the Lord is called the Wrath of God. The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period. Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, the Rapture of the Church occurs immediately prior to the Day of the Lord.
  • The Pre-Wrath position is not a new position of the Rapture teaching Churches. The only thing that is new is the name. They view that the Church would see Antichrist and be removed prior to God's judgment.
This is also wrong, wrong, wrong, but they are getting closer to the truth. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) but the then err in saying that they will be removed just prior to the antichrist's (satan's) arrival. By them saying above that: "The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period," what they in essence are saying is that the "Day of the Lord" is half a day, or a third.... That just doesn't work! And again, this Rapture version is also in error, as in the first two versions, in that the Tribulation is only one event! This view also once again confuses the wrath of God with the Tribulation of antichrist.
Post-Tribulation Rapturism:





Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:
  • The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.
This is also in error, but they are the closest to the truth out of all Rapture theories. But they fall off right at the end. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) and that they will be here for the time of the false messiah antichrist. Then they make a nonsensical statement, they say that they will be Raptured up into the clouds at the end of the Tribulation and then turn right around and come back with Jesus at His Second Advent - this makes no sense at all!
This version errs in that they feel that only a portion of the people on the planet (the 'Church') will be removed before the wrath of God, which in fact commences the "Day of the Lord." But there is no selective removal before God's wrath is executed on the ungodly. The 'Church' witnesses the destruction of the ungodly but is itself protected from it. Observe this Scripture showing that some are destroyed while others yet REMAIN and witness that destruction of the ungodly: "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." {Rev 11:13}.
The fundamental error in all the above 'Rapture' scenarios is that they all, in one fashion or another, believe that at some point in time only a portion of the people will be removed. First of all, they misunderstand the Bible when it says that "all will be changed" to read "will be Raptured' The change is a change of body, it is us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. and this happens to ALL people on the earth at Christ's coming AT THE SAME TIME! It is the consummation of the age, which is the beginning of the Millennium.
Read the below Scripture carefully and put out of your mind all that false 'Rapture' stuff. The below Scripture speaks of us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. Those who are asleep (dead) have already changed into their spiritual body at the moment of their individual deaths. Their flesh corpse is the only thing in the grave. But those who shall still be living when Christ returns must also go into their spiritual bodies, but the are changed without actually dying a flesh death, they just discard these flesh 'Tabernacles' and the spiritual man emerges. For the in the Millennium we are no longer in our flesh bodies, but rather, we are in our spiritual bodies.
1 Cor 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (KJV)
For the purposes of this study we shall concern ourselves mainly with what is called the 'Pre-Tribulation Rapture,' as that is by far the most common version of the Rapture theory today. It is the pre-tribulation Rapture that they speak of on the television religious programs. It is the pre-tribulation Rapture that the false 'forehead slapping' healing ministries speak of (those who prey upon the sick and crippled) who smack you on the forehead and claim to heal you in God's name - naturally you are to contribute a considerable sum of money to them, but you are not healed. God does not run circus side-show acts and He doesn't beg for mammon (money). God does heal people even to this day. There are documented cases of God intervening and healing a faithful servant. But there isn't a fee, and it isn't gaudy, it is done in private, and it most certainly isn't accomplished by a false teacher/preacher! How many times when Jesus Himself healed someone that He told them not to tell anyone?!?
It is the pre-tribulation Rapture that the corrupt prosperity ministries speak of (those that con greedy people into giving them their 'seed offering,' or who tell the people to 'plant seeds of faith' i.e., $$$ into their ministries and God will supposedly 'supernaturally' pay those peoples bills and drop wealth and riches by the basket-full upon them from Heaven). These are greedy dead soul ministers ripping-off a greedy ignorant congregation whom deserve no better! Shame on them for imagining our Lord as a get-rich quick scheme or a magic lantern for lazy people to rub on for three free wishes. At what point will people realize that we are to serve God, not be served by Him? For our God does provide for us, but only for those who do the Lord's will.
Matt 6:31-33
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (KJV)
On a television 'prosperity ministry' program recently, they actually televised a service of theirs wherein the entire auditorium of their faithful, stood-up, reach down to the ground and pulled an imaginary object to their hearts yelling in cadence "Money, coming to me." How can these people possibly have allowed themselves to have been seduced into imagining that this is how God would have His church services to be held? These people were all well-dressed and well groomed, they obviously had enough. But in their greed they were not worshipping God in this ministry service, they were there to fatten their pocket books. Their slickster Pastor was the only one getting rich, for they were all encouraged at the end of the service to write a check 'for God' to have something to bless (filled out to, and cashable by that ministry of course). They've been caught up in their own greed and laziness and ripped off; Good for them! This is a popular television ministry who will not be named by us. The above are also 'Rapture' teaching churches.
And there are many poor deceived souls who believe that they are doing a good work for God by financially supporting these and other types of false ministries and false preachers/teachers, but in reality they are helping to spread satan's lies, confidence games, and false doctrines to other unwary Christians. Then they wonder why God isn't blessing them! God will not bless you if you are aiding and abetting the work of satan, in fact the Bible tells us that we become just as guilty as the liars from those false pulpits if we help sustain their schemes:
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.(KJV)
Financially supporting a teacher of false doctrine is certainly even more that bidding him "God speed" (which is simply a form of blessing them in their deeds). Enough about that.
A picture of this Rapture, according to them, as it is taking place; And then an illustration of how the antichrist shall deceive them (the Rapturists):
Lets take a real close sobering look at the events of the supposed Rapture. Lets take a look into the future till that imaginary day, lets envision this "rapturing" as it is taking place according to them:
Graves fly open and corpses reanimate, cars driving down the highway suddenly crash as their drivers float through the sheet metal of the roof of the car up onto a cloud where they hover as the crowd forms. The Heathen peoples of the world are amazed as Christians in the middle of conversation immediately begin to levitate and sift through the roof of the building as they float to their reward.
All the while, Jesus Christ; The Living Son of Almighty God is directing, from a safe distance up in the atmosphere, this retreat of His Christian warriors from the power and evil of the impending antichrist. Then for the next seven years, God, Jesus Christ, and all the Mighty Angels sit on their hands while satan rules on God's earth and torments God's creation, even allowing blasphemous persecutions and murders of those remaining Christians who, while they draw the wrath of antichrist for resisting him, but were yet for some unknown reason were deemed unworthy to be 'Raptured away' and are instead relegated to suffer some kind of hell on earth, void of God's assistance; All the while being forsaken by God - in direct contradiction of what God states in His Word, the Bible: "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." {Heb 13:5}. See also: {1st Sam 12:22}, {Psalm 37:28}, {Isa 41:17}.... Who are you going to believe, Almighty God, your Heavenly Father, or some false pie-in-the-sky non-Biblical doctrine?
OK back to reality, How on God's earth could the twentieth century Christian actually have let himself be fed this trash? Why do they think God gives them the Gospel Armor if they will be gone when the antichrist gets here?!? Answer - because they won't be gone, there will be no Rapture, we will all be here when the false christ (antichrist) comes. Our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit will strengthen God's Elect, whom are men and women that withstand satan's deception until the true Messiah Jesus Christ' arrival at His prophesied Second Advent.
 
M

miktre

Guest
#91

Heb 13:5
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (KJV)
And again the Bible says:
Luke 10:19 (Jesus speaking)
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (KJV)
But what is in store for those people who have been deceived by the false Rapture doctrines when the antichrist comes? If you happen to be someone who believes that Jesus Christ is going to come to earth and Rapture you away before the Tribulation of antichrist, then read your spiritual epitaph below, for you shall be, and are now being deceived:
There is a major Biblical event that occurs prior to Jesus Christ's return at His Second Advent. It is not any rapturing however. It is the tribulation of the antichrist, which is satan's imitation of the Messiah of God, that every religion on the planet is yearning for. The antichrist (satan) will come to this earth as an impostor to the Messiah of God. The antichrist is not coming as some hideous Demon breathing fire and murdering Christians, he could deceive no one like that. The antichrist is coming pretending to be Jesus Christ the Messiah, therefore he will mimic many of the things that we expect Jesus to do at the Second Advent, so he certainly will not be running around loping off the heads of Christians, but he will add a twist to prophecy.
The Bible states that when the true Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent we will ALL be changed into our spiritual bodies: "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." {1st Cor 15:51-52}. There will be no more flesh bodies from that point on out to the eternity.
But when the antichrist comes prior to the Second Advent there will be no change of bodies. This is the fail-safe way to know that this one is the false christ, for you will still be in your flesh body when he (antichrist) comes. This important fact is lost on the Rapturist however, because the Rapturist has been been beguiled with satan's false teaching that the above Scripture {1st Cor 15:51-52} is not speaking of the Second Advent, and that it is not a change that all people go through at THE SAME TIME, but rather that it is speaking of a 'Rapture' of some selected people. It was necessary for satan to remove the most ****ing evidence that he is not Christ, but that instead he is the antichrist.
Satan accomplished that by fabricating an entire facade about some supposed pre-Second Advent prior to the true Second Advent of the Son of God Jesus Christ. satan spawned the Rapture theory, in effect creating three Advents out of the two Advents written of in Scripture. And once that was accomplished with perhaps half of all Christians, he has paved the way for the following events:
When satan comes to earth as the antichrist, he will tell the Rapturists that he wishes to help the un-saved become saved before he fulfills the Rapture. He will purport to be doing this out of his great love for humanity, after all, he will say, he is the Messiah, and Messiah's save. The Rapturist will dare not question this one whom they believe is Jesus Christ, the Son of Almighty God; they will even glee in the great compassion and patience of this one, thus they will have completely bought into the deception of satan "and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate" {Dan 11:31}. See also {Dan 12:11, Mt 24:15, Mk 13:14}, they now have been 'marked' by the Beast, though they know it not yet.
It gets worse. It is written that the whole world shall wonder after the Beast {Rev 17:8}, and those who resist him shall be delivered up to councils for conversion {Mt 10:17, Mk 13:9}. How does satan identify those who are resisting him? You got it, those who resist and reject satan as the false christ {Rom 11:4} will be betrayed to satan by the deceived 'Christian Brothers,' and their own concerned family members {Lk 21:16} who believe they are really helping them (the doubters) to be given a second chance by Jesus to make it 'in' before the Rapture (but this is really the false jesus). That is also the reason why the tribulation of antichrist shall not be a murdering spree. Satan will be imitating what the people on earth think that the Messiah of God would be doing; and that most certainly isn't killing Christians, that would deceive no one.
Don't you believe that God shall protect you during the tribulation? Satan is trying to scare you into clinging to the hope that Jesus will remove you from the earth prior to the tribulation. But the Christian has nothing to fear from the tribulation:
Luke 21:16-19 ('death' is simply one of satan's names {Hebrews 2:14})16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls. (KJV)

Matt 10:29-31
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
(KJV)

Acts 18:9-11
9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.
11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. (KJV)
Rev 9:3-4 (the Great Tribulation)
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. (KJV)
It is those who are tricked into following the antichrist who's shame is written of in the Scriptures: "Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us." {Luke 23:30}. See also {Hosea 10:8, Rev 6:16}, and it is them that the TRUE Jesus Christ shall be speaking to at the TRUE Second Advent when He says: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." {Matt 7:21-23}.
Do you still like and adding third Advents to, and reading false Raptures into the Word of God?!? Christian beware! And do not worry, God will protect you during the Tribulation, He promised us that He would.
Unfortunately, most Christians will be woefully unprepared for satan's most diabolical plan yet - as the fake messiah, the impostor who is prophesied to come first before the true Messiah Jesus Christ.
There shall be no 'Rapture'. The word Rapture does not even appear in any Bible version (to date). The Rapture is a lie strait from satan's camp to disarm the Christian and cause him/her to willingly lay down their Gospel Armor. Let's examine Ephesians 6:10-18 where we are told about the Gospel Armor:
Eph 6:10-18
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
The devil is satan. Satan's end-time role is that of the antichrist. Paul is giving us God's warning that we will face the antichrist (devil, satan) in these end-times. God supplies armor for His Election in the final days, we are to put it on, the WHOLE armor of God, all of it. Why would God's Elect need armor if He was going to extract them (Rapture) before the battle with the adversary begins?
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Once again, we see that those with the Gospel armor of God will be on the earth on that "evil day" when satan as the antichrist comes to earth. Those with the armor (God's Election) are told to "stand." Stand against what if they were to be Raptured out before the Great Tribulation of the antichrist on earth claiming to be the Messiah?
Matt 24:21-25
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before. (KJV)
God's Elect shall be on the earth during the Great Tribulation! What did Jesus mean when He said: "Behold, I have told you before"? He was telling us about the false messiah, the spurious messiah, the antichrist whom is satan that shall come to this earth claiming to be the true Messiah. it is written that this antichrist (beast) shall be endowed with supernatural powers to deceive.
Rev 13:12-15
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (KJV)
Now if all the Christians are Raptured out prior to this, then who is it that are willing to lay down their lives rather than worship this false one? Many on the earth who are waiting for a 'Rapture of the Saints' will believe that the antichrist really is the True Jesus Christ. Could this antichrist fake some kind of 'rapturing' in several stages to deceive the Rapture believing Christians into helping him identify those who are resisting him? Perhaps, it just isn't written, other than that satan (antichrist) will have powers above the ability of men. That is the danger in the Rapture theories, they don't warn the people that there are two saviors coming, first the false savior antichrist, then after him, the True Savior Jesus Christ comes at His Second Advent.
Eph 6:10-18 (Continued)14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints (KJV)
Why would a Christian allow some slickster from some false pulpit blind them with non-Biblical promises or misrepresentations of Scripture that causes them to suppose that God would ready His Elect for battle, spiritual battle, and then retreat them before the battle begins? Answer: He wouldn't, our Lord God is not one to act idly in vain! God prepares one for battle to DO battle (spiritual battle). Don't let satan and his false Rapture doctrines disarm you. Remember, the Lord said "standagainst the wiles of the devil."{Eph 6:11}.He did not say to wait idly expecting to be pulled out (Raptured) before the battle even begins!
From theStrong's Exhaustive Concordance:Wiles:Greek word #3180 methodeia (meth-od-i'-ah); [method] travelling over, i.e. travesty (trickery): lie in wait. Cunning arts, deceit, craft, trickery."Now the serpent was more subtil..." {Gen 3:1}.
The above is but one Scripture of many that states that God's Elect shall stand against the deceptions of the antichrist. What about you, will you stand with the Gospel Armor on and in place? Or will Jesus return at His true Second Advent to find you serving the false messiah satan? We shall cover more of these Scriptural warnings and instructions as this study progresses.
Now the way that the Rapture teacher will try to invalidate all of the warnings of God is to say something like that God was only talking about the evil that is in the world now, and not about the evil of the Great Tribulation. This is deceiving and will cause good Christians to be effectively spiritually disarmed when the antichrist does come, as well as woefully ignorant about what they are supposed to do. But come on, are you to believe that God wouldn't mention standing against the greatest evil feat of satan (the Tribulation)?!? And are you to believe that Jesus Christ was only making small talk when He said:
Matt 24:21-25
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Can you really read the above verse and yet still believe that God's Elect will not be on earth during the Great tribulation?!? Come-on Rapturist, snap out of it! By the way, above in verse 22, we see that the tribulation has been shortened by the grace of God.They, the Rapture teachers, have built a doctrine (Rapture) not on the foundation that is Christ, but rather on a foundation of lies and false teaching. their foundation will fall when the satan's flood of lies are unleashed (the Great Tribulation):
Matt 7:27 (Jesus speaking)
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (KJV)
 
M

miktre

Guest
#92
They (the Rapture teachers) would know that except they teach that you don't have to understand the book of Revelation because "You will be gone, Raptured away before it comes to pass." Can't you see that you are being disarmed spiritually and set-up to fall and worship at the feet of satan as the impostor?

Now once again, I must be emphatic in saying that most people (preachers/teachers) who teach the Rapture theory are not evil satan worshipping men. They themselves have been deceived and now they deceive others without even knowing it. So be kind on your preacher/teacher and show him the errors in the Rapture theory, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, just as you do, who may also have been deceived, deserve the assumption that you have been spreading satan's lies unaware. God has a reason for everything. Perhaps a person who comes out of the Rapture cult can have better success helping others out of it. God knows. And remember, false teaching is a sin like any other in the respect that you can take it to the cross and be forgiven by the precious blood of our Savior Jesus Christ, repenting and then go on with your life forgiven of that sin. As Jesus told the adulterous woman:
John 8:10-11
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (KJV)
Please believe me, we get no joy in telling a good Christian (some of whom lead such decent God serving Jesus Christ loving lives that few could aspire to) that they have been tricked and deceived by satan and his false doctrines. But if I (and then you) do not teach the truth and expose the lie, then I (and those others who know) will be held accountable on Judgment Day. God's Word, His truth, is not be hidden away, it is to be shared so that it multiplies. That is the meaning behind the parable in {Lk 19:12-27} (The good servant and the wicked servant).
Let me ask you to think about this. The Rapturist states that the Church isn't mentioned after Revelation chapter four (not true, it's in Rev 22:16, six verses from the end of the Bible), so therefore the church must be gone by that time - Raptured out of here. Then why did God give us the last 18 chapters of the Bible? I mean, if all the saved Christians are going to be frolicking in their reward on a cloud, then why write the rest of the book? The heathen don't read it, they don't believe it and they don't care. Do you think that satan is going to allow the setting up of Bible study classes during the Tribulation? And if he did, who would teach them if all the saved Christians are floating around in clouds?
While we are at it, I guess we might as well throw out the book of Daniel and great portions of the other prophetical books, God must have made a mistake to include them in Scripture, after all, His 'saints' will all be Raptured blissfully away before the end-time warnings contained in them come to pass - right? Right? Wrong! God does nothing in vain, it is man who acts in vain:
2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)
1 Tim 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (KJV)
In the above two Scriptures, what "doctrines of devils" are being spoken of here that are to come to pass in the "latter times"? Surely this isn't speaking of the religion of Islam (started in A.D. 600), nor Buddhism (600 B.C.), nor pagan religions (3800-3900 B.C.). No, those can not be that which "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." But in the Spring of 1830, a sick woman was visited by a demon, and she channeled the Rapture doctrine to the world. Could this be a "seducing spirit" that causes them to "after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears", and "turn away their ears from the truth", and "be turned unto fables"? Or maybe just a part of it. You judge. But the word "Rapture" does not appear in any Bible version (to date), and the concept is foreign to responsible Scripture exegesis.
Jer 5:30-31
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? (KJV)
The 'first' and 'second,' 'taken' and 'left': Where to, and by whom?:
There is a great repetitive and common theme all throughout Biblical end-time prophecy regarding 'two's;' Two events, one an imitation of the other and one before the other:

The first





Verses
The second




The taken by satan (spiritually)VersesThose left till the Second Advent The spurious messiahVersesThe true Messiah The disobedientVersesThe faithful Those in danger of the JudgmentVersesThose saved The false savior, satanVersesThe true Savior, Jesus Christ
Satan's corruption of God's planVersesThe plan of God In that nightVersesIn that Day
It is prophesied in many places in the Bible that satan (as the antichrist) shall come to this earth first before the Second Advent of Jesus Christ pretending to be Him, pretending to be the true Messiah. Many will be deceived by satan. For satan's plan so closely mimics the return of the true Messiah Jesus Christ that the unstudied in the Word will not be able to tell the difference. Now satan indeed has a different plan to deceive all peoples, but in this study we are concerning ourselves with satan's plan to deceive the 'Protestant type' branches of Christianity (not necessarily the Protestant Church per se), but those that broke from Catholicism during the reformation in the 16th century and then went on to adopt a 'Rapture' doctrine as Gospel in the 19th century. (Satan has already accomplished planting so much idolatry into the Catholic Church that they rival even the Pagan Babylonians).
Basically, the Rapturist (those believing in a Rapture of the Church) are conditioned to believe that Jesus Christ is going to appear in the sky and draw the Church (Christians) off the planet into the clouds with Him before satan unleashes his brand of Hell on earth referred to as the Great Tribulation. Then those of us left on the earth will have to submit to satan or die. Then at the end of a predetermined time, Jesus will return with those same 'saints' (the Raptured Christians) and satan will be defeated.
Sounds good right? But there is a problem, it is not written, it is not Biblical. But satan's plan is soooo close to the truth that it will be believable to most. Satan knows Scripture, he even quoted it to Christ in the wilderness, although he misquoted {Psalm 91:12} in {Matthew 4:6} by adding the words "At any time." Unfortunately, you will only finds satan's added words in The Bible : Authorized King James Version, for all subsequent (except maybe the NKJV) 'newer' Bible versions have omitted the corrupted words of satan, thus robbing us of an insight into how satan operates to deceive. This is not the place to get involved in the subject, but all 'newer' Bible versions coming after the trusted King James Bible are made from the same corrupted manuscripts out of Alexandria Egypt (Codex Sinaiticus {Aleph} and Codex Vaticanus {B}); It should prove interesting that the words that satan added to Psalm 91 were "At any time," for that is a catch phrase amongst Rapturists. Many call their Rapture doctrine, the "any moment doctrine" meaning, to them, that the Rapture can happen at any time and that one must always be prepared for the coming, i.e., be a good person so you get Raptured out with the others. Is that just a coincidence? I don't know, but God does leave His people warnings.
But anyway, let's see what Jesus says about those who are 'taken' first. They are not actually physically taken anywhere, but they are spiritually taken into the worship the antichrist. Let's see where they are taken and by whom. Below are Jesus Christ's own words foretelling the end-times events prior to the Second Advent. Let's take an expository view of the below Scripture. In all fairness I must state that this Scripture is in fact one of the Scriptures that the Rapture teachers have pulled violently out of context and refashioned into a Rapture doctrine. And to those who have been taught the Scripture in that way (Rapture) I ask you to clear your mind of that interpretation and try the below one on for size:
Luke 17:22-37(Jesus speaking of the end times)22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe#1, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man#2.
Explanation of above: #1 Noe = is Greek for Noah in Hebrew, this is talking about Noah's flood. #2 the days of the Son of man = The days preceding and up to the Second Advent. You will notice the the word days is in the plural, this means that it is speaking of the days prior to the Second Advent, and not just the specific day of the Second Advent. The Second Advent is referred to as the "Day of the Lord" in the Bible.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage#1, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all#2.
Explanation of above: #1 they married wives, they were given in marriage = This speaking of the Fallen Angels taking flesh women to wife in Genesis 6, the offspring of this abominable union between angelic beings and flesh women were called the Giants {Gen 6:4} and it was the sole purpose of Noah's flood to kill these evil hybrids. #2 and destroyed them all = destroyed all the Giants and those cavorting with them, not all the people, for instance, we know that Noah and his family survived. (There were later influxes of these Giants written of in Scripture, one of them was Goliath whom David slew).
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all#1.
Explanation of above: #2 and destroyed them all = Destroyed all those who had offended God with the activities at Sodom and and Gomorrah. But Lot and his family were not destroyed, God preserved them but He didn't Rapture them into the clouds, they stayed right here on earth and God protected them. I stress that point because the Rapture doctors will say that this was some kind of 'Rapture.' But Lot and Noah stayed right here on earth and continued to do the Lord's work. God can and will protect His own during the Great Tribulation of the end-times, have faith. But the Rapturist seeks an imaginary escape hatch that does not exist, so they read it (Rapture) into the Scriptures where it is not.
 
M

miktre

Guest
#93
30 Even thus shall it be#1 in the day#2 when the Son of man is revealed.
Explanation of above: #1 Even thus shall it be = The Tribulation of the end-times will be just as the calamity that faced Noah and Lot. God destroyed that which offended Him but preserved those in whom He was pleased. There was no Rapture then nor will there be one in our time. Noah floated to safety and Lot walked out of Sodom, no one flew anywhere. And after the destructing, Noah and Lot continued on the earth, they didn't come back from some Rapture cloud! The teaching here is that God is able to protect those whom He will, even though He destroys all those around them. In other words don't fear the wrath of God if it isn't directed at you. Look at the event in Egypt, God killed the firstborn of all the Egyptians, but the Death Angel passed over the houses of the Israelites - there was no Rapture there either! #2 in the day = Don't read over this! The term used here is "in the day" and it is referring to the Lord's Day, the Second Advent, but below in verse 34 you find "in that night", which is referring to satan's night, the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation of the end-time.
Whenever you see times given in days in New Testament prophecy it is referring to God's actions, good, in the day, in the light; as in the Two Witnesses of God prophesying for 1260 DAYS {Rev 11:3}. But when the times are given in nights, months, moons, darkness; it is satan's work, as in the treading down of the Holy City 42 MONTHS by satan's people {Rev 11:2}. Both 1260 days and 42 months equal three and one-half years; God is showing us the difference between good and the evil by using day and night in prophecy.
31 In that day#1, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back#2.
Explanation of above: #1 In that day = The Lord's Day, the Second Advent. I haven't seen any Raptures here yet, have you! #2 let him likewise not return back = God is telling them to do something, He is saying don't 'turn back,' thus it necessarily is possible that they could make the wrong choice and 'turn back' (to the evil of worshipping antichrist in the end times). If they had been Raptured out prior to this Second Advent then why would God tell them to keep steady in their ways. If Jesus had Raptured them into a cloud surely they could not jump back down to earth. The teaching here is to stay faithful to God in the end-times and do not be deceived or lured, do not go into worshipping the antichrist.
32 Remember Lot's wife#1.
Explanation of above: #1 Remember Lot's wife = Don't do like Lot's wife did. She made it almost till the end, then she 'looked back' (longingly) and was destroyed with the rest of them. But Lot continued on in the Lord's word and was saved from destruction. The teaching here is, don't make it almost till the end (the Great Tribulation) and then fail just before reaching safety (the Second Advent). In other words, don't lead a good God reverencing Jesus Christ loving Christian life only to miss the mark in the end-times by being tricked into following satan (the false christ, the imposter). Those waiting for a Rapture are trained to follow the first super-natural entity claiming to be the Messiah come to save them. But as we shall document in this study, the first super-natural entity claiming to be the Messiah will be satan, the antichrist; Herein lies the danger to the Rapturist (and many others as well)!
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it#1; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it#2.
Explanation of above: #1 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it = Those looking to be saved by unbiblical means shall perish. This goes not only for false religions like Muslim, Buddhism, but also Christians who follow false doctrines. Those waiting to be Raptured out to live shall die with those others worshipping the false messiah. #2 whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it = This is referring to the martyrs {Rev 20:4}. But fear not, God promises us that He will protect us in the end-times. "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." {Luke 21:18}. You must have faith in God that he will protect you during the great tribulation; no faith = no protection. besides the Prophets and Apostles of old, we know that the Two Witnesses will be killed {Rev Ch.11}, but we also know that Christians are alive on the earth at the time of the Second Advent. In {1Thes 4:15} it speaks of those saved who are alive at the return of Christ:
1Thes 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [means: precede] them which are asleep. (KJV)
God will protect His faithful, and besides that, satan is coming as the antichrist pretending to be Jesus Christ. Satan could not murder Christians and still pull off his deception, for the true Jesus Christ would not kill Christians. Have faith and courage.
34 I tell you, in that night#1 there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken#2, and the other shall be left#3.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Explanation of above: *NOTE:As I hope you know, this has nothing to do with homosexuality, back then all people slept in one room and the women are grinding grain (working). #1 in that night = Satan's time, the Great Tribulation. The Holy Spirit has directed our attention to the fact that what is being spoken of has to with satan by saying "in that night." The night precedes the day, the night gives way to the day, the darkness is removed by the light, satan (antichrist) precedes Jesus (true Christ), Jesus removes satan into the Pit. We know that women do not grind grain in the night and we know that the men do not work in the field in the dark. Okay, now is where we get to the meat of the Scripture. In the verses prior to this we learned that we are to remain steadfast and faithful to God. Now we are told what becomes of those who did not remain faithful. We will see three series of people (unless you study from a corrupted NIV version Bible which omits the entire 36th verse of this Luke In each of these three series, one is 'taken' and one remains. The Rapture doctors will tell you that those taken were Raptured. but in reality, those taken are taken in deception, they have fallen off and worshipped the imposter savior, the antichrist. #2 one shall be taken = Taken by deception, taken in to worship the wrong messiah, the false messiah, the antichrist. #3 the other shall be left = Left working in the field (the world), left to continue serving God faithfully all the way up to the return of the true Messiah Jesus Christ at His Second Advent - no Rapture! Let's see what happens to those who follow antichrist (albiet most do so in ignorance at first until it is too late).
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body#1is, thither will the eagles#2 be gathered together. (KJV)
Explanation of above: #1Body= Greek word #4983 soma =a dead body or a Corpse(see Mt 27:59). #2 Eagles: #105 aetos = Vultures(see Mt 24:28 {carcass}). From theThayer's Greek Lexicon: Greek word #105 aetos = an eagle (KJV): Since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this probably refers to a vulture which resembled an eagle.
***The actual word "Vultures" is used here in the NIV, NASB, NAU, and the Living Bible translations.
Below are a few other Scriptures that the word "[soma]," translated as "bodies" in our above verse, is utilized. Notice in {Rev 18:13} it is translated "slaves." (All Scripture from King James Version Bible):
Rev 18:13
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves *[soma], and souls of men. (KJV)

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body *[soma], but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body *[soma]in hell. (KJV)

Mark 15:43
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body *[soma]of Jesus. (KJV)
So what's my point? My point is that those 'taken' first are taken to the place of corpses, dead bodies and vultures! yet the Rapture teachers will tell you: "Glory! Hallelujah!, I want to be the first taken, Rapture me away." -- the fools!!! (sorry). This death is speaking of a spiritual death, those who deaden their souls by following the wrong messiah. They have allowed themselves to be deceived by satan's Rapture doctrine and they will be found with child {Mat 24:19} when the true Husband Jesus Christ returns for the wedding {Rev 19:7}.
Look at it this way, if the Husband (Christ) returns from a long journey (2000 years) and finds his wife (the Church) pregnant, then His wife has betrayed Him by going after another husband (antichrist) who was not here first love, and there has been some abominable activity (apostasy) going on in which she became impregnated and defiled by. (naturally, once again, this is speaking spiritually).
 
M

miktre

Guest
#94
Matt 24:17-19 (Jesus speaking)
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (KJV)
Explanation of above verse 19: This is a verse in which the translation is somewhat confusing; Jesus is speaking here symbolically not literally. We will not bother to tell you how the various commentators interpret this verse, but rather, we will explain it.
This is not speaking of a pregnant woman, you will notice that no gender is implied, and it is speaking in a plural sense. This is referring to those who have been spiritually impregnated in their mind with the mark of the beast, those who have been spiritually impregnated and are therefore "spiritually with child" when the True Bridegroom Christ returns. That is to say, those who are worshiping antichrist when the true Christ returns.
And them that "give suck" are not nursing mothers, but rather those that are nursing the great apostasy, by doing the work of satan, in that they teach that antichrist is the True Christ - thus helping satan to deceive the world, albeit, that most will be doing it in ignorance. You could liken it to your going on a long journey and when you return to your wife she is nursing a baby that she had by another. (it will be an approximately 2000 year journey for Christ, and when He returns, His Bride (the Church) will be with another savior - the false savior, the antichrist).
When Jesus begins the verse with "And woe unto them...", it is a warning of the highest magnitude! It is the singling out of some for a terrible punishment, it is at the same time a condemnation. On the other hand, the love between a mother and her suckling baby is the purest form of love known on this earth. Don't let anyone tell you that Jesus has a special punishment in store for them!
Rev 19:6-9
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. (KJV)
It is written that satan, the great deceiver, is prophesied to pull off his most grandiose deception of all time against the peoples of the whole world during the end of the end-time generation - our present generation.
Rev 13:8 (speaking about the antichrist)
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are notwritten in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (KJV)
This greatest of all satan's deceptions is called the Great Tribulation. In the Scripture below we see those who remained true to the Lord God TROUGH the Great Tribulation. They did not bow a knee to the antichrist, for that is what the first Tribulation is, the Tribulation of antichrist (satan) on earth acting as a Messiah, the false messiah. The Second Tribulation is Christ's destruction of satan and his misguided followers (once again we see a 'first' and a 'second' in prophecy, one is satan's, the other is Jesus Christ's).
You will notice below in verse 14: "These are they which came out of great tribulation" that these are those whom have withstood the Tribulation and came out till the end loyal to the true Lord and they are rewarded. The Great Tribulation is the tribulation of deception perpetrated by antichrist (satan). They (the over-comers) are given white robes (a reward for a job well done).
The average Rapturist gets all 'giddy' when they see words like: "taken" and "came out of," but this isn't talking about some Rapture, it is about overcoming, being faithful, standing fast for the true Lord. They themselves withstand the Tribulation and come out uncompromised and clean spiritually (hence the white robes), it is action on their part, not Jesus flying anyone away. Read the Scripture carefully:
Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. (KJV)
Explanation of above: #1 These are they which came out of great tribulation = It reads: "Out of," not "out before." Out of the 'the other end' Great Tribulation, not out before it happens. No Rapture here, sorry folks. You cannot come "out" of something unless you were "in" it! It is saying those who come out unscathed, those who come out undeceived, those who resist the temptation and trickery of satan during the tribulation and come out of it having remained true to the Lord till the end; It is those that shall receive the rewards of a good and faithful servant!
Rev 18:3-4(coming out of Babylon, i.e.: confusion, the Great Tribulation)
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (KJV)
In verse 4 above we see God telling His people to come out of Babylon, i.e.: confusion, the Great Tribulation of the false end time religion (satan's one-world system where-in he sets himself up as Lord {2nd Thes 2:3-4}). God is telling us to take action, He is telling us to make the right choice, He is not talking about some escape pod Rapture theory, He tells us to come out, He doesn't Rapture anyone. The action is on our part not His, for we see that if we do not do it we are punished: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." If this were speaking about some kind of Rapture, then God would do the action and we could not fail and thus would not be liable to the punishment of "her plagues". Right?
We must so painfully scrutinize the specifics on Scriptures like the above because of the fact that the Rapturist has been conditioned (deceived) to believe that words like "Come out of her, my people" mean "I'm gonna Rapture you away". It is sad that satan's deception parallels so close to the truth, but yet so far, so as to be very seductive indeed to those who have not been warned by their preachers/teachers. You must come out of the tribulation by your action of not worshipping the false christ, the antichrist. The action is on your part. God likes for His people to have some salt, some character, He likes us to be strong not weak, but fear not, for God will help you.
Heb 13:5-6
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. (KJV)
We as Christians are to wait upon our Lord. Jesus is coming here at his Second Advent, we aren't going anywhere! Even the Millennial Temple {Rev 20:5-8} and Heaven itself {Rev 21:1-2} are going to right here on planet earth, not in some Rapture cloud or off in outer space somewhere. Jesus Christ returns the same way He left, at the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem {Acts 1:9-12}. And we are instructed to wait for Him, not fall off to follow some impostor in the last hour, lusting for some imaginary escape! Wait!
Dan 12:11-12
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [1290*]
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [1335*](KJV)
*(= 45 DAYS, 45 being the number of 'Preservation' in the Bible. See: Gen 18:28, Josh 14:10)
Luke 12:36-38
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. (KJV)

James 1:12
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.(KJV)

Luke 12:40-43
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not#1.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us,or even to all#2?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant#3, whom his lord when he cometh#4shall find so doing#5.(KJV)
Explanation of above: #1the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not = Let's not read over this too quickly, for there is much wisdom within it. At what point in time will people most least expect Christ to return? Answer: When they think He is already here! i.e., when antichrist is here claiming to be the true Christ, it is then that "the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not." #2even to all = Peter is asking if this message is for all the world, will all the world be caught off guard?. #3Blessed is that servant = Jesus answers Peter in a parable. He tells Peter whom will receive the rewards on that day of His return. #4whom his lord when he cometh = Christ is that Lord who comes at His Second Advent to a world worshipping the imposter (un-faithful and un-wise steward). Jesus is leading up to just whom is the "faithful and wise steward."#5shall find so doing = Those He shall find doing what??? Worshiping the false messiah? Not!!! But rather those still working in the field, those still waiting and teaching the true Gospel until Christ returns at His prophesied Second Advent! Not those who's lamps have dimmed and who have gone to another for the oil (Parable of the 10 virgins {Matt 25:1-13}), not those who fell of in the last hour and worshipped the false christ antichrist (albeit they do so in ignorance, thus defines the grace of the spirit of slumber).
Sadly, the rapture believing Christian, while they are good God worshiping, Jesus Christ loving Christians will have been deceived into worshiping the wrong messiah, the antimessiah, the antichrist, that is to say satan in disguise. If that seems too remarkable to you, it shouldn't, you have been warned of this, for is it not written:
2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformedinto an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (KJV)
Definition from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:
Transform: Greek word #3345 metaschematizo (met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo); from #3326 and a derivative of #4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively, to apply (by accommodation)
 
S

shinethelightforever

Guest
#95
You are right that no man knows the day or hour of the Lord 2nd coming but we do know it is after the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
This passage starts out by telling us that Christ return is after the tribulation, and ends by saying we do not know the day or hour. We cannot accept one truth and deny the other. We are to accept the whole council of God's word. We know two things.
#1 We do not know the day or hour
#2 It is not until after the Tribulation.
Again Jesus has commanded us to watch for his coming. If Jesus comes to the earth and follow by the rapture after the tribulation, then there is no need to be looking for him right now am I right? But Jesus has commanded his followers before his death to be watchful, but the tribulation period did not happen at the time. So it is still commandment right now as we speak.
 
S

shinethelightforever

Guest
#96
Your not crazy, just deceived, and in most cases willfully so.

Well I dont believe im devcieved.I have studied the pre trib for almost 6 years. How you know you are not decieved?
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#97
Well I dont believe im devcieved.I have studied the pre trib for almost 6 years. How you know you are not decieved?
Your not deceived and don't even listen to what he has to say. There are others here that love the truth and have the witness in them of the truth. Those that live otherwise, may God open their eyes to see.
 
Feb 27, 2007
3,179
19
0
#98
Matt 24:17-19 (Jesus speaking)
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (KJV)
Explanation of above verse 19: This is a verse in which the translation is somewhat confusing; Jesus is speaking here symbolically not literally. We will not bother to tell you how the various commentators interpret this verse, but rather, we will explain it.
This is not speaking of a pregnant woman, you will notice that no gender is implied, and it is speaking in a plural sense. This is referring to those who have been spiritually impregnated in their mind with the mark of the beast, those who have been spiritually impregnated and are therefore "spiritually with child" when the True Bridegroom Christ returns. That is to say, those who are worshiping antichrist when the true Christ returns.
And them that "give suck" are not nursing mothers, but rather those that are nursing the great apostasy, by doing the work of satan, in that they teach that antichrist is the True Christ - thus helping satan to deceive the world, albeit, that most will be doing it in ignorance. You could liken it to your going on a long journey and when you return to your wife she is nursing a baby that she had by another. (it will be an approximately 2000 year journey for Christ, and when He returns, His Bride (the Church) will be with another savior - the false savior, the antichrist).
When Jesus begins the verse with "And woe unto them...", it is a warning of the highest magnitude! It is the singling out of some for a terrible punishment, it is at the same time a condemnation. On the other hand, the love between a mother and her suckling baby is the purest form of love known on this earth. Don't let anyone tell you that Jesus has a special punishment in store for them! Quote


Well my dear... you pretty much lost me as soon as I read this. Please dont add to the words of the Bible... this is in err... It is what it is... as written... woe to pregnant & nursing mothers. For it to be anything else God would have had it written as such. I have no clue where you would have got this far out idea... It is what it is. Unfortunately I was unable to read the rest of your post (which may have been very good)after seeing this gross err in translation. I did however love your choice of font color. Review where you obtained this misinformation about this and truly reflect on Gods word as written. God Bless you as you seek.
 
B

blessed419

Guest
#99
My fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ, it is imperative to remember that the Gospel of Christ, for all, is the following:

1. The Blood of Christ covered all Sins and allows a fresh start with a clean slate. All we have to do is believe and accept that truth. God set it up that way. The death of Jesus, the Christ, fulfilled all old testament Law and made it null and void.

We are now under a new covenant of "Saved by the Blood of the Resurected Jesus and by the Grace of "Abba Father" the living God.

When we get into arguments about whether the rapture is before or after the tribulation we open ourselves to attack from "Luciferian entities" representing 'Pride', 'Arrogance', and others.

Only GOD knows when the Tribulation will start and end. ONLY God knows when his son Jesus will return. It is not for you to know or worry about and least of all argue about.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
No where is it said to 'Believe in the pre-Trib or the Post-Trib and you be saved'!

Your Jobs are to be prepared for our Lords return, to share the Gospel of Salvation with others, and to follow the Lords instructions in Mark 16:15-18, believe and preach v19 and act on verse 20. You find these same instructions in other gospels as well.

STOP such petty, meaningless, arguments NOW! Get back to the Word and prayer and Sharing the same with all whom you meet and whom you know.

Let your light shine, lead by example: Love the Lord your God with all your heart - Love your "neighbor" as yourself. How will you feel at the white throne judgement ( for christians only) to see that a "neighbor" did not make it and that you had a chance to testify and share Jesus with that Soul but did not, (for whatever reason)

Remember:
REMOVE ALL LOGS from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from someone else. ( my paraphrase) Remember what is important. Do not be prideful.

Now Go forth and "Sin no more"




THANKS YOU SOOOO MUCH for saying it. I was curious about this forum but after reading much of it just sounds like petty banter back and forth amongst brethren. It's sad, what's started off as a good innocent and interesting question has turned into an argument with a FRUITLESS outcome. I wish the people of God would stop falling into this sort of thing and focus on what REALLY matters.
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
This view believes:

  • The Day of the Lord is called the Wrath of God. The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period. Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, the Rapture of the Church occurs immediately prior to the Day of the Lord.
  • The Pre-Wrath position is not a new position of the Rapture teaching Churches. The only thing that is new is the name. They view that the Church would see Antichrist and be removed prior to God's judgment.
This is also wrong, wrong, wrong, but they are getting closer to the truth. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) but the then err in saying that they will be removed just prior to the antichrist's (satan's) arrival. By them saying above that: "The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period," what they in essence are saying is that the "Day of the Lord" is half a day, or a third.... That just doesn't work! And again, this Rapture version is also in error, as in the first two versions, in that the Tribulation is only one event! This view also once again confuses the wrath of God with the Tribulation of antichrist.
Post-Tribulation Rapturism:





Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:
  • The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.
This is also in error, but they are the closest to the truth out of all Rapture theories. But they fall off right at the end. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) and that they will be here for the time of the false messiah antichrist. Then they make a nonsensical statement, they say that they will be Raptured up into the clouds at the end of the Tribulation and then turn right around and come back with Jesus at His Second Advent - this makes no sense at all!
This version errs in that they feel that only a portion of the people on the planet (the 'Church') will be removed before the wrath of God, which in fact commences the "Day of the Lord." But there is no selective removal before God's wrath is executed on the ungodly. The 'Church' witnesses the destruction of the ungodly but is itself protected from it. Observe this Scripture showing that some are destroyed while others yet REMAIN and witness that destruction of the ungodly: "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." {Rev 11:13}.
The fundamental error in all the above 'Rapture' scenarios is that they all, in one fashion or another, believe that at some point in time only a portion of the people will be removed. First of all, they misunderstand the Bible when it says that "all will be changed" to read "will be Raptured' The change is a change of body, it is us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. and this happens to ALL people on the earth at Christ's coming AT THE SAME TIME! It is the consummation of the age, which is the beginning of the Millennium.
Read the below Scripture carefully and put out of your mind all that false 'Rapture' stuff. The below Scripture speaks of us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. Those who are asleep (dead) have already changed into their spiritual body at the moment of their individual deaths. Their flesh corpse is the only thing in the grave. But those who shall still be living when Christ returns must also go into their spiritual bodies, but the are changed without actually dying a flesh death, they just discard these flesh 'Tabernacles' and the spiritual man emerges. For the in the Millennium we are no longer in our flesh bodies, but rather, we are in our spiritual bodies.
The post trib rapture is correct, although your interpretation of is is lacking. I as a post trib believer do not believe in a 7 year tribulation, but in the 42 month reign of the anti christ mentioned in Revelation 13. Further more I do not think that the day of the Lord is the Tribulation period, but a singular day the day of the Lord's return.

Now you claim it is nonsense to believe that we are caught up in the clouds yet that is exactly what scripture teaches, 1st Thess 4:15-17 to receive our heavenly bodies 1st Cor 15:51-53, and this occurrs right before God destroysd the wicked with fire Luke 17:26-30 and 2nd Thess 1:7-9.


There is absolutely no doubt that scripture asupports the post trib view and no other.