RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?
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I do have a question is the lastTrumpet the call on The day of Atonement or is it the last trumpet on The feast of Trumpets.
The Day of Atonement are the Day of Judgment, the Day of Redemption, the Day of the Lord and the Day of Reckoning.
The Day of Atonement is when Moses came down from the mountain for the 2nd time with the 10 commandments.The day of Atonement is when the Temple is cleaned.
The feast of trumpets comes as a theif in the night because you have to see the moon for it to start. It is a memorial with the blowing of horns. It looks back to the time when God's people heard the Trumpet and then heard God speak to them.A distinguishing feature of the celebration is the last blast of the trumpet it is a long blast, signalling victory or good news. It is this last blast the last trump? You have the feast of trumpets then it goes right into the day of Atonement this is a 10 day space of time.
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life rev 2:10
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has becomethe kingdom of our Lordand of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth (Revelation11:15-18
Our God comes and will not be silent; a fire devours before him, and around him a tempest rages. He summons the heavens above, and the earth, that he may judge his people: "Gather to me my consecrated ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice." And the heavens proclaim his righteousness, for God himself is judge (Psalm 50:3-6).
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:30-31).
In the old testament God coming on the clouds always means judgment.
"For whoever is not afflicted on this same day shall be cut off from his people. And whoever does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people" (Lev 23:29-30).[SIZE=-2]55[/SIZE]
The separation that occurred on the Day of Atonment between believers and unbelievers. Like the wheat and the weeds in matt 13
The Day of Atonement are the Day of Judgment, the Day of Redemption, the Day of the Lord and the Day of Reckoning.
The Day of Atonement is when Moses came down from the mountain for the 2nd time with the 10 commandments.The day of Atonement is when the Temple is cleaned.
The feast of trumpets comes as a theif in the night because you have to see the moon for it to start. It is a memorial with the blowing of horns. It looks back to the time when God's people heard the Trumpet and then heard God speak to them.A distinguishing feature of the celebration is the last blast of the trumpet it is a long blast, signalling victory or good news. It is this last blast the last trump? You have the feast of trumpets then it goes right into the day of Atonement this is a 10 day space of time.
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life rev 2:10
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has becomethe kingdom of our Lordand of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth (Revelation11:15-18
Our God comes and will not be silent; a fire devours before him, and around him a tempest rages. He summons the heavens above, and the earth, that he may judge his people: "Gather to me my consecrated ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice." And the heavens proclaim his righteousness, for God himself is judge (Psalm 50:3-6).
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:30-31).
In the old testament God coming on the clouds always means judgment.
"For whoever is not afflicted on this same day shall be cut off from his people. And whoever does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people" (Lev 23:29-30).[SIZE=-2]55[/SIZE]
The separation that occurred on the Day of Atonment between believers and unbelievers. Like the wheat and the weeds in matt 13
True Avinu,there is no pre-trib resurrection,and you pointed it out good to show that the people who were beheaded by the beast are part of the first resurrection,which shows the saints are not resurrected before the tribulation,and the saints will be in the tribulation,which the Bible says the beast makes war against the saints.
This also shows they are not left behind saints who will go up in a second resurrection,for they are part of the first resurrection.
Add to that,in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2,it says that the saints will not be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin appears claiming to be God,which is half way through the 7 years covenant of the prince to come,or the antichrist.
When the world takes the mark of the beast they cannot repent of their sins to be saved,and God will take His children home.
The weird thing is that you can point out by scripture,that is clear,that there is no pre-trib resurrection of the saints,and some people will ignore it and still believe there is a pre-trib resurrection.
This also shows they are not left behind saints who will go up in a second resurrection,for they are part of the first resurrection.
Add to that,in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2,it says that the saints will not be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin appears claiming to be God,which is half way through the 7 years covenant of the prince to come,or the antichrist.
When the world takes the mark of the beast they cannot repent of their sins to be saved,and God will take His children home.
The weird thing is that you can point out by scripture,that is clear,that there is no pre-trib resurrection of the saints,and some people will ignore it and still believe there is a pre-trib resurrection.
Of course it's not wrong. The resurrection of the just will occur at the end of the trib, as Christ is setting up the millennial kingdom. That's when all OT believers and those killed for their faith during the trib will be resurrected. The resurrection of the unjust, also called the great white throne judgment, is when everyone else not raised at the rapture or the resurrection of the just will be raised and judged.
What if you were told of a rapture of the church? Would your Faith weaken? "Jesus left me behind", "Why was i not worthy".
Anti- Christ could try to lead you away if you thought the rapture happened before Tribulation.
Read the scripture yourself, there is too much infiltration of Christianity, false teachings.
Do not fear tribulation, it is a step closer to our Lord.
Remember these times must pass, and let no one lead you away from your faith, for the fear of your life here on earth.
Anti- Christ could try to lead you away if you thought the rapture happened before Tribulation.
Read the scripture yourself, there is too much infiltration of Christianity, false teachings.
Do not fear tribulation, it is a step closer to our Lord.
Remember these times must pass, and let no one lead you away from your faith, for the fear of your life here on earth.
Correct
yes, there is:
1 Cor 15:
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The church will be gathered together before the trib. Dead Christians will be raised, those still living will be changed.
yes, there is:
1 Cor 15:
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The church will be gathered together before the trib. Dead Christians will be raised, those still living will be changed.
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 52, IN IT, IT SAYS AT THE 'LAST' TRUMP. THE GREEK WORD FOR LAST IS 'ESCHATOS' WHICH MEANS, (FARTHEST, FINAL, LAST, UTTERMOST.) SO HERE THIS VERSE SAYS AT THE FINAL TRUMP, THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE.
Shroom, you can't have 2 last trumpets, and you can't have 2 resurrections of the saints, the Bible doesn't say that, nor does it even hint it. I'm sorry my friend, but pre-trib is a false doctrine that trapped so many to believe in, I was one of them for a long time. It just doesn't exist. It's these kind of false teachings that will cause so many to fall away, as 2 Thess. 2:3 says, because when the 7 yr. covenant is made and all the believers (church) is still here, they are going to lose faith and fall away. Please don't be caught in that. Shalom
Many people mistakenly think the "last trump" in 1 Cor 15 is the 7th trumpet in Revelation. It isn't.
1 Thes 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Here it's just called the trump of God. When Christ returns for the church, there will indeed be trumpets sounding. People will KNOW something is happening. At the last trump, the dead in Christ will rise and those living will be changed.
1 Thes 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Here it's just called the trump of God. When Christ returns for the church, there will indeed be trumpets sounding. People will KNOW something is happening. At the last trump, the dead in Christ will rise and those living will be changed.
Shroom, I just gave you the greek definition for that "last trump" in that verse, why are you ignoring that? It is the 7th trumpet in Rev. Show me proof please that it isn't. Just because 1Thess. 4:16 doens't say last trumpet, doesn't mean it's not. Matt. 24:29-31 doesn't say last trumpet either, it says trumpet, but we know full well it's talking about the end of the tribulation. I'm sorry my friend that arguement won't stand. Shalom
Shroom, I know you don't want to let go of pre-trib. I'm not going to try and convince you, all I challenge you to do, is ask YHVH to show you the truth, because if we really are serving YHVH His way and not ours, then we will be willing to receive that truth, no matter how much it changes something we have believed. Agreed? Shalom
G
Apparently the trumps in Jewish feasts always come in sets of three, when Jesus spoke about the last trump nobody questioned Him as to what the last trump means....because they where all very familiar with the trumps so they knew exactly what the last trump meant....I don't really want to argue the fact because it's been argued plenty times before, I just thank God that He has in His plans made provision for our rescue before the tribulation....I thank God that during the trib (hopefully) I will be feasting with Christ at the Marriage feast in Heaven before returning with Him as a warrior to defeat The Anti-Christ.
B
I believe, like shroom2, to a pre-trib rapture.
It is my belief that God will remove His children from the earth before the Tribulation. The Christians spoken of during the tribulation will be those who came to believe in Christ after the rapture.
1 Thess. 4:13-18
1 Thess. 5:9
Rev. 3:10
...
This is just my belief. I know that scriptures can be interpreted in many ways regarding this subject. I won't argue.
It is my belief that God will remove His children from the earth before the Tribulation. The Christians spoken of during the tribulation will be those who came to believe in Christ after the rapture.
1 Thess. 4:13-18
1 Thess. 5:9
Rev. 3:10
...
This is just my belief. I know that scriptures can be interpreted in many ways regarding this subject. I won't argue.
I believe, like shroom2, to a pre-trib rapture.
It is my belief that God will remove His children from the earth before the Tribulation. The Christians spoken of during the tribulation will be those who came to believe in Christ after the rapture.
1 Thess. 4:13-18
1 Thess. 5:9
Rev. 3:10
...
This is just my belief. I know that scriptures can be interpreted in many ways regarding this subject. I won't argue.
It is my belief that God will remove His children from the earth before the Tribulation. The Christians spoken of during the tribulation will be those who came to believe in Christ after the rapture.
1 Thess. 4:13-18
1 Thess. 5:9
Rev. 3:10
...
This is just my belief. I know that scriptures can be interpreted in many ways regarding this subject. I won't argue.
M
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
There are no qualifiers are exceptions. The verses says it is the last trump so it can’t come before the seventh trump of Rev. or it wouldn’t be the last.
And where in Scripture does it say “He has in His plans made provision for our rescue before the tribulation”?
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
John suffered tribulation and we will too if we follow Christ.
Which of the billions of antichrist is this battle against. Scripture tells us there are many not just one. Do you believe antichrist is an end time world leader? If so which of he 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists state that is what antichrist is?
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.