Re: Thread On Catholic And Other Religions
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B
John 3:5 is very clear. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".
Jesus is not drawing an analogy.
Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.
It's the same message in Ti 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,
It can be.
No sister, I am not being lied to. There is no false dogma.
Jesus is not drawing an analogy.
Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.
It's the same message in Ti 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,
It can be.
No sister, I am not being lied to. There is no false dogma.
E
Well you just want to deny what is plainly obvious...
How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.
The physical birth juxtaposed to the spiritual birth.
Best to read a passage in context.
How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.
The physical birth juxtaposed to the spiritual birth.
Best to read a passage in context.
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Jesus is teaching a sequential reality not an analogy although I like the water physical birth connection.
Water Baptism precedes the gift of the Holy Spirit.
John's Baptism is united to Jesus's when he Baptized Jesus.
Not that God boxed in by any Sacrament.
The Apostles marveled at seeing the gift of the Holy Spirit on people who had not been Baptized with water first. Their immediate response was like 'who could deny them Water Baptism now'. They must have been wanting to be Baptized with water. Thats proof it is the Holy Spirit.
Matt 3:16
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
Act2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Water Baptism precedes the gift of the Holy Spirit.
John's Baptism is united to Jesus's when he Baptized Jesus.
Not that God boxed in by any Sacrament.
The Apostles marveled at seeing the gift of the Holy Spirit on people who had not been Baptized with water first. Their immediate response was like 'who could deny them Water Baptism now'. They must have been wanting to be Baptized with water. Thats proof it is the Holy Spirit.
Matt 3:16
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
Act2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
B
You need to read the passage in context to understand it.
You are just snipping bits out.
John 3:3-10
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
- or born again; it involves a rebirth, a second birth
4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
- Nicodemus is thinking of physical birth
5. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
- Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.
6. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
- the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)
7. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’
8. The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9. Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
- Nicodemus hasn’t understood
10. Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?”
- Nicodemus is a scholar – he should have understood the words of Ez 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.
You see water and spirit.
Moreover Nicodemus should have understood that on previous occasions when God makes a new start he does so with water and Spirit:
1. At creation – Gen 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
2. With the flood (Gen 7/8) God used water to cleanse the earth, then as the water subsided Noah sent out a dove “And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. “ (Gen 8:11). The dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (cf Mt 3;16)
3. When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to make them his people under the Siniai covenant he took them through the waters of the red sea and protected them by a pillar of cloud and fire (the Holy Spirit) – see also 1Cor 10:2
4. Jesus, the new Adam, is baptised in water and after that the Holy Spirit descends on him (Mt 3:13-16)
You see, each time water and spirit.
Immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus and his disciples go baptising with water. A co-incidence? I think not.
So where does that leave
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5)
Clearly baptism with water.
You are just snipping bits out.
John 3:3-10
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
- or born again; it involves a rebirth, a second birth
4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
- Nicodemus is thinking of physical birth
5. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
- Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.
6. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
- the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)
7. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’
8. The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9. Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
- Nicodemus hasn’t understood
10. Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?”
- Nicodemus is a scholar – he should have understood the words of Ez 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.
You see water and spirit.
Moreover Nicodemus should have understood that on previous occasions when God makes a new start he does so with water and Spirit:
1. At creation – Gen 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
2. With the flood (Gen 7/8) God used water to cleanse the earth, then as the water subsided Noah sent out a dove “And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. “ (Gen 8:11). The dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (cf Mt 3;16)
3. When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to make them his people under the Siniai covenant he took them through the waters of the red sea and protected them by a pillar of cloud and fire (the Holy Spirit) – see also 1Cor 10:2
4. Jesus, the new Adam, is baptised in water and after that the Holy Spirit descends on him (Mt 3:13-16)
You see, each time water and spirit.
Immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus and his disciples go baptising with water. A co-incidence? I think not.
So where does that leave
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5)
Clearly baptism with water.
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correct but that doesn't mean that water is not the means by which we are saved. It doesn't save but it's necessary to be saved.
Mark 16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be
Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
They had been Baptized in water. They were prepared to hear the Word and believe. Then Paul could confirm them in the Faith and receive the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be
Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
They had been Baptized in water. They were prepared to hear the Word and believe. Then Paul could confirm them in the Faith and receive the Holy Spirit.
Many people are confused about what the immaculate conception is, thinking it refers to Jesus' conception and not Mary's 
And of course, there is zero evidence from Scripture that Mary was born free of the stain of "original sin."
Of course this belief dovetails with her bodily ascension, again nowhere found in Scripture.
And of course, there is zero evidence from Scripture that Mary was born free of the stain of "original sin."
Of course this belief dovetails with her bodily ascension, again nowhere found in Scripture.
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R
People cannot pray to false gods/saints.
People cannot say Jesus is michael...He is not, Jesus is G_d.
LDS have added to The Bible,
Catholic’s don’t read The Bible
Christianity IS Christ-there is salvation in no other name.
People are allowing themselves to be deceived,
Jesus said do not be deceived.....or. ???
People cannot say Jesus is michael...He is not, Jesus is G_d.
LDS have added to The Bible,
Catholic’s don’t read The Bible
Christianity IS Christ-there is salvation in no other name.
People are allowing themselves to be deceived,
Jesus said do not be deceived.....or. ???
my boss is catholic, I am not although I consider him as a fellow christian even though we may not see eye to eye on some theological matters.
My thoughts are if he reads the Bible and has a relationship with God then that is what counts over and above what religion he was brought up in. The same for my mormon neighbours.
for some people they have never known anything else. some religions are only running because people have a family obligation to go. The invitation to know Jesus is always there.
I know several ex-catholics that would sneak out of the catholic church attend somehwhere different that was NOT catholic cos they know that if they told their families or questioned its teachings they would be punished. quite severely, but the same thing can happen in other denominations.
My thoughts are if he reads the Bible and has a relationship with God then that is what counts over and above what religion he was brought up in. The same for my mormon neighbours.
for some people they have never known anything else. some religions are only running because people have a family obligation to go. The invitation to know Jesus is always there.
I know several ex-catholics that would sneak out of the catholic church attend somehwhere different that was NOT catholic cos they know that if they told their families or questioned its teachings they would be punished. quite severely, but the same thing can happen in other denominations.
No love not Christian is not according to me.
It is according to the bible
1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
To love catholic brother and sister we must tell them that vatican Lie to them. So they No and run to jesus
If your love one don't know he is in danger, and you know, out of love you have to tell him.
Say people put poison in his food, you know It but he didn't, out of love you have to tell him not to eat
My brother, this story is happen to you. Catholic give you poisoned food, poisoned teaching that lead you to hell.
People that love you try to tapell the truth, brother, Lucifer behind catholic.
People that hate you say, keep going brother, Eat that food, look tasty
And you Eat It because you think he love you and you end up in hell.
It is according to the bible
1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
To love catholic brother and sister we must tell them that vatican Lie to them. So they No and run to jesus
If your love one don't know he is in danger, and you know, out of love you have to tell him.
Say people put poison in his food, you know It but he didn't, out of love you have to tell him not to eat
My brother, this story is happen to you. Catholic give you poisoned food, poisoned teaching that lead you to hell.
People that love you try to tapell the truth, brother, Lucifer behind catholic.
People that hate you say, keep going brother, Eat that food, look tasty
And you Eat It because you think he love you and you end up in hell.
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