Re: Thread On Catholic And Other Religions

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Relic

Active member
Apr 29, 2020
211
78
28
#81
my boss is catholic, I am not although I consider him as a fellow christian even though we may not see eye to eye on some theological matters.

My thoughts are if he reads the Bible and has a relationship with God then that is what counts over and above what religion he was brought up in. The same for my mormon neighbours.

for some people they have never known anything else. some religions are only running because people have a family obligation to go. The invitation to know Jesus is always there.

I know several ex-catholics that would sneak out of the catholic church attend somehwhere different that was NOT catholic cos they know that if they told their families or questioned its teachings they would be punished. quite severely, but the same thing can happen in other denominations.
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
256
63
#82
my boss is catholic, I am not although I consider him as a fellow christian even though we may not see eye to eye on some theological matters.

My thoughts are if he reads the Bible and has a relationship with God then that is what counts over and above what religion he was brought up in. The same for my mormon neighbours.

for some people they have never known anything else. some religions are only running because people have a family obligation to go. The invitation to know Jesus is always there.

I know several ex-catholics that would sneak out of the catholic church attend somehwhere different that was NOT catholic cos they know that if they told their families or questioned its teachings they would be punished. quite severely, but the same thing can happen in other denominations.
I have known a lot of catholics. If one reads the Bible over the missal, It’ll be a first. Praying the rosary (10/1 in favour of Mary) is also the norm. The pope has just decided to take ‘lead us not into temptation’ out of The Lotd’s prayer (Jesus’ words) need I go on?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,675
758
113
#84
my boss is catholic, I am not although I consider him as a fellow christian even though we may not see eye to eye on some theological matters.

My thoughts are if he reads the Bible and has a relationship with God then that is what counts over and above what religion he was brought up in. The same for my mormon neighbours.

for some people they have never known anything else. some religions are only running because people have a family obligation to go. The invitation to know Jesus is always there.

I know several ex-catholics that would sneak out of the catholic church attend somehwhere different that was NOT catholic cos they know that if they told their families or questioned its teachings they would be punished. quite severely, but the same thing can happen in other denominations.
Your boss must believe this, read It brother this catholic doctrine say No salvation apart from catholic church
I think you believe Christian mean believe No salvation apart from Jesus.

Is that ok to replace Jesus with RCC?



816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
 

Relic

Active member
Apr 29, 2020
211
78
28
#86
I agree with you on the catholic part, I am not committed to any religion
but it is strange how my original has long ago gone to catholic/protestant views
happens here it seems, I guess people get threatened that catholics are going
to overtake the world.
thanks for your post a breath of reason.
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
256
63
#87
Your boss must believe this, read It brother this catholic doctrine say No salvation apart from catholic church
I think you believe Christian mean believe No salvation apart from Jesus.

Is that ok to replace Jesus with RCC?



816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
Is that from the catacism Jackson?
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
256
63
#88
I agree with you on the catholic part, I am not committed to any religion
but it is strange how my original has long ago gone to catholic/protestant views
happens here it seems, I guess people get threatened that catholics are going
to overtake the world.
thanks for your post a breath of reason.
Catholic’s wont take over the world. they’re content give G_d 45 minute of their time at mass once a week (40 mins if it’s a ‘good’ priest), light a candle & put a couple of quid in the collection. Then get back to ‘normal’ 🥴 🍺
 
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Bede

Guest
#89
Water has no saving power and that is utter foolishness.

Nicodemus did not grasp the new spiritual birth... he understood physical birth that is why he raised the the question.

Open your mind, be brave and look beyond your indoctrination.
I have given you much scripture.

You have given me your opinions.

It appears you place your opinions above scripture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
30,884
8,965
113
#90
... I guess people get threatened that catholics are going to overtake the world.
Over the past century, the number of Catholics around the world has more than tripled, according to a study by the Pew Research Center. As of 2010, there are nearly 1.1 billion Catholics, up from an estimated 291 million in 1910.

Catholics comprise 50 percent of all Christians worldwide and 16 percent of the world’s total population.
source

Historically, the papacy held great sway over many monarchies.
 
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Bede

Guest
#91
That Mary herself was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was therefore free from original sin.
Wrong.
You're using weasel words again. The idea that Mary was conceived without a human father has absolutely no basis in Scripture.
Since you present no contradiction I must assume there is none, especually since you do not properly understand the doctrine.

Therefore my claim stands.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,086
7,585
113
#92
Wrong.


Since you present no contradiction I must assume there is none, especually since you do not properly understand the doctrine.

Therefore my claim stands.
Here's a simple point of logic: where there is no evidence period of an idea, one need not present evidence contradictory to that idea.

Your claim is empty, and since you made no attempt to provide the "right" understanding of "immaculate conception", you have no claim on which to stand.
 
B

Bede

Guest
#93
Your boss must believe this, read It brother this catholic doctrine say No salvation apart from catholic church
I think you believe Christian mean believe No salvation apart from Jesus.

Is that ok to replace Jesus with RCC?



816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
I've already answered that - see post #54
 
B

Bede

Guest
#94
Here's a simple point of logic: where there is no evidence period of an idea, one need not present evidence contradictory to that idea.

Your claim is empty, and since you made no attempt to provide the "right" understanding of "immaculate conception", you have no claim on which to stand.
Here is the correct understanding of the Immaculate Conception
"The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin," (CCC # 491)

My claim stands because you have not disproved it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
30,884
8,965
113
#95
Wrong.

Since you present no contradiction I must assume there is none, especually since you do not properly understand the doctrine.

Therefore my claim stands.
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Can you provide any Scripture to show Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin?

When this dogma was proclaimed ex cathedra, Archbishop of Paris warned
that it is not stated in the New Testament and could not be deduced from it.


We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.

Given that this dogma was pronounced ex cathedra, it is mandatory for Catholics to believe it.

There is no set list of ex cathedra teachings, but that’s because there are only two, and both are about Mary: her Immaculate Conception (declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854 and grandfathered in after the First Vatican Council’s declaration of papal infallibility in 1870) and her bodily Assumption into heaven (declared by Pope Pius XII in 1950). source
 
B

Bede

Guest
#96
This thread is littered with erroneous comments/claims about the Catholic Church.
Very sad!

Unfortunately i don't have time to respond to them all.
 
B

Bede

Guest
#97
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Can you provide any Scripture to show Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin?

When this dogma was proclaimed ex cathedra, Archbishop of Paris warned
that it is not stated in the New Testament and could not be deduced from it.


We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.

Given that this dogma was pronounced ex cathedra, it is mandatory for Catholics to believe it.

There is no set list of ex cathedra teachings, but that’s because there are only two, and both are about Mary: her Immaculate Conception (declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854 and grandfathered in after the First Vatican Council’s declaration of papal infallibility in 1870) and her bodily Assumption into heaven (declared by Pope Pius XII in 1950). source
The argument that I am following is the one about my claim:
No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts scripture (properly interpreted).
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
256
63
#98
Here is the correct understanding of the Immaculate Conception
"The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin," (CCC # 491)

My claim stands because you have not disproved it.
Luke 1:46
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
Mary needed a Saviour
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,086
7,585
113
#99
Here is the correct understanding of the Immaculate Conception
"The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin," (CCC # 491)

My claim stands because you have not disproved it.
Since there is ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS in Scripture of such a fantasy, it is unbiblical. It doesn't need to "contradict" Scripture for it to qualify as hogwash. Even the phrase, "original sin" doesn't appear in Scripture, again allowing the Catholics to weasel out of the allegation.

However, the immaculate conception does contradict Scripture: Romans 3:23.
 
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Bede

Guest
Sure.. does not "save" but is necessary to be saved.....:rolleyes:
Scripture says we are saved in baptism (with water) - Mk 16:16 & 1Pet 3:21
Do you have any scripture that says we are not saved in baptism (with water)?