Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

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Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Fair enough. I certainly have learned a lot about how others think... and seen very little of mind-changing.
Usually, people who form their doctrine to the extent where they are willing to type out what they believe in, they have formed it after many years of reflection.

Thus, it is understandable that discussiing with strangers over the Internet won't change their minds.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Paul was famous for his miracles. By name and reputation and specific acts duly recorded. Peter also. So please tell me the names of the miracle workers of the last.......hhmmm.....say 20 years as well as as the details of the incidences. Benn Hinn is excluded of course.

Anybody?
 

DJ3

Member
Jun 22, 2019
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Paul was famous for his miracles. By name and reputation and specific acts duly recorded. Peter also. So please tell me the names of the miracle workers of the last.......hhmmm.....say 20 years as well as as the details of the incidences. Benn Hinn is excluded of course.

Anybody?
Okay.
Well I knew this guy whos best friend attended a church service and they had a preacher who healed a man in New Guinea. This preacher fixed this man's leg that was longer than the other and POW! it was shorten to the length of the other leg. I think he said the guy's name was Joe or Jimbo or something like that. The preacher not the New Guinea guy.

You can look it up on Google am sure.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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Here's a few more videos demonstrating some of the problems with the charismatic movement.

First one is Kenneth Copeland's alleged destruction of the Corona virus. Second one is a great show by John Sampson and Steven Bancarz concerning the many problems with the charismatic movement. John used to work for Copeland, and Steven was brought up as a Pentecostal. He got involved in New Age teaching as a young adult, but was then converted by God to Christianity. He has visited charismatic churches since becoming a believer, and recognizes some of the same evil spirits that are involved in charismatic teachings.

Particularly, he plays a few clips by Bob Jones, who is the father of the charismatic movement. Bob Jones was a major figure in the life of Kenneth Copeland, as well as other charismatics. Listen to his words yourself and determine if he is a sound believer. I think not.

With regards to charismatics, they have repeatedly shown bad judgement in terms of doctrine. Besides their own doctrinal issues, charismatics have called men like William Branham "God's general". William Branham was a oneness Pentecostal who claimed to be a prophet. Well, he missed the boat with that claim, because he was one of the endorsers of Jim Jones' ministry.

The fact that significant charismatics laud William Branham is telling, because, in essence, they are approving the teachings of a heretic who denies the Trinity, and who claimed all kinds of weird experiences.

Jim Jones is the cult leader who lead about 900 people to their deaths.

You guys might as well forget about convincing me that charismatics are worthy of serious consideration. I have seen way too much to fall for that. And, the video with John Sampson and Steven Bancarz will give you some of the reasons why the movement is discredited by all sound Christians.

Like Steven says, 50 percent of the church thinks that recent charismatic teaches are Satanic, 25 percent think it's of the flesh, and the other 25 percent believes it.

By the way, Steven believes that the miraculous sign gifts are still in existence today, but he does not support the charismatic movement as a whole.

One notable remark was that this skyscraper of charismatic teaching is built on a dime-size piece of real estate.


 

UnitedWithChrist

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There’s a doctrine going around called Cessationism which teaches dat spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing have ceased since pentecost. This is completely bogous and asinine and unbiblical, even I speak in tongues sometimes and after I was born again I started seeing visions which were prophetic and actually came true aswell.


just like the bible says in Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


the only thing dat has ceased is peoples faith in Gods power as the bible says in 2 timothy 3:5 they have a form of godlyness but they deny the power off.

Lets go 2 the scriptures where there were many miracles done with the power of the holy spirit and where the holy spirit was poured out onto people after pentecost.

Also just 2 mention a prophecy from david in pslams Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Acts 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:



Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

Acts 9:40 peter raised a woman from the dead.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

So u see hear folks, many works and miracles and out poring of the holy spirit after Pentecost in acts.

Don’t be fooled by these silly erroneous doctrines which go totally against the bible which are purposely made by the enemy 2 deceive you and turn u away from the truth and 2 destroy ur faith.

Take authority against the demons God has given it 2 his children and don’t be fearful, don’t be weary, Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


By the way, the original poster is distorting what cessationists believe..she is claiming all of the gifts of the Spirit are denied since Pentecost by cessationists. They don't believe that. They only believe that the spiritual gifts such as tongues, prophesying, interpretation of tongues, and healings by an individuals are no longer in existence.

This is largely because they were associated with validating the apostles' message. Since there are no apostles now, there is no need for validation.

Of course, the charismatic often claims that there are apostles and prophets. In fact, there's a group for each that alleged prophets and apostles can join for about $500 (annually, I think) in order to get recognized as one. There's a husband/wife discount if anyone really wants to follow upon it :D

I'm really tired of seeing people strutting around claiming to be apostles and prophets. These mutual-attestation groups are nothing but a joke anyways.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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Okay.
Well I knew this guy whos best friend attended a church service and they had a preacher who healed a man in New Guinea. This preacher fixed this man's leg that was longer than the other and POW! it was shorten to the length of the other leg. I think he said the guy's name was Joe or Jimbo or something like that. The preacher not the New Guinea guy.

You can look it up on Google am sure.
Internet claims are a dime a dozen.

I could claim to be a Mensa genius and some folks would likely believe me :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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This video basically summarizes my thoughts on a significant portion of charismatic organizations....it is demonic, and reflects the work of a counterfeit spirit.

2 Cor 11:3 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough

2 Cor 11: 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Those who are excessively interested in spiritual manifestations and doing things like leaving their bodies are most assuredly being seduced by these false teachers.

I also respect Costi Hinn, a nephew of Benny Hinn, who is also involved in exposing individuals like Kenneth Copeland and Bill Johnson.

By the way, Steven Bancarz is apparently associated with the charismatic movement in some way so he isn't totally dismissive of them (which is my tendency). He was a New Age teacher before being saved. John Sampson, the other person, was associated with Kenneth Copeland at one point.

Why am I dismissive of charismatics? Their understanding adds nothing to me. I enjoy studying the Bible and relishing in doctrines like union and identity in Christ, and seeing the shadows and types of the OT. I already know I'm joined with Christ, and I don't need to go looking for emotional experiences to validate my faith. I don't need the sense of power or emotional stimulus that apparently charismatic beliefs give some people.

 

UnitedWithChrist

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It seems to me like continuationists need to clean up their house, before they expect us to take them seriously.

A good video on false prophets, in the context of Corona virus.

Justin Peters looks at their false claims.

 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Within the same verse of Scripture being used to claim the Gift of Tongues has ceased, it also lists that knowledge will stop. With access to the internet, I might not be learning more, but I am finding information I had never had access to and at times was unaware of. I would therefore make the claim, if we are still able to learn and gang knowledge, then the Gift of Tongues is still very well in effect.

The gift of tongues (prophesying declaring the gospel our new tongue) has not ceased. Even now the gospel is going out. It has been defined according to its foundation in the Old testament. Destroy that foundation it destroys the doctrine.

Then as a sign given by God of those who would rather follow the oral traditions of men as "wonderments self edifying" they in their arrogance make a noise without meaning and fall backward to show they are under the judgement of God .Yet for all that they still to this day make a noise fall backward mocking sola scriptura.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Copeland shenanigans set to music:


Great side show .Hurry hurry. Step right up hear the sound not knowing where it comes and wonder where it goes? wonder upon wonder Filler up with spirit power. . "kula patosssy ify gigy wampee doodle . . see the power it has to push men backward.
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
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For me to say I love believe in Yeshua/Jesus.. at first its so what? That does not mean I am born from above/born again. Reading just page 32 you know what comes to mind? Two things. Right from the start "they will know you are mine by your love one for another" and Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths but only what is helpful Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, ""Don't say anything that would hurt [another person]. Instead, speak only what is good so that you can give help wherever it is needed.

"Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sins was buried rose the 3rd day is the only way to the Father"<---for some of you.. this means nothing. You want people to fit into your picture of what a REAL Christian is.

Old song.. "if all we had do to each day was walk up and go out to play...take the hand of al the world.. every boy and ever girl. Think how very proud we'd be if love was all there was to see"

Did you know they that say believe Jesus is lord.. born from above.. are more family then flesh and blood? Yet.. if someone talked made a video about our sister, brother, mom dad.. or spouse. Yeah. See the least of these. Where some just stop is a truth yet...its the least of these my brethren.

This talk always goes to my heart and hurts.. I cry.. well I know how much He paid for me to have life with Him. And standing next to all these talked about here. I am exactly the same. I lust, I lie, I have cheated, thought awful evil things, didn't give to God so many times in my life. Never shared Jesus again so many times. Didn't always gave money to those on the streets nor cared enough to walk the streets day and night. Not going to every hospital or every elderly home. Not going to prison. Not staying in prayer for hours and days, Hey.. add me to your list. I believe the gifts are for today. I have been prayed for.. then next thing I new I was on my back.. no clue how I fell backwards. I must be one of them also.

I say all this .. please forgive me.. not here to offend. Even one of Gods top angels.. could not say anthing to Satan but.. the lord rebuke you. "Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you"

That was the archangel Michael. that dared not bring against him a reviling accusation. Satan deserves it no? So the people we talk about.. hurt bash talk negitivly.. you know just how is still with them.. sticking up for them helping them? The same one that treats you the same.

I say this for you not them. They don't see this read this.. thats the point no? Well if we cared we would call email ask here ..hey these I believe are off or in error and man we need to take authority over the enemy and NOT let him hurt our family in JESUS name. For if just two of us agree in JESUS anme the Father will answer. I can't be the only that.. thinks this. This how i would talk about you.. I would stick up for you. ANY and all. Jesus does this for me..so.. no way am I going to let the enemy get away with hurting my family.

If I have offended in anyway .. forgive me.. I will detete this.. I already did many times. I am awful with words.. so hard to just.. talk like most of you do. Hard to get into words my thoughts.. just seems to always come out wrong..

I was shown so much mercy and grace..
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Here is my personal encounter with a miracle, I'll relate what I learned from the beings that I spoke to about it.

I was having my first child and I sat up, altho my body still was lying down. Two vague forms were in the room and I could perceive what they were saying.

They said the baby I was having was shining but the body of the child would cause rears so it should not live. They wondered why humans cry. Please don't ask me what they meant, I am just reporting what happened.

I said the baby meant everything to us, I would teach the child about God and joy, please let the baby live. Their reply was that they could not do anything but follow---oh dear. Our communication was on a different level than speech. I know what they meant. They knew how the world was created to be and they must follow that, and as it was the baby should not live.

They seemed to think it wasn't right that I should enter their world.

Here is my point--they said they would ask permission to bypass how it should be. I think that is how miracles happen. Our world operates by set policies, but God will change it for us if we ask.

And, if you are curious, the baby lived for 21 years. She had extremely severe asthma we had a hard time living happily with and she died of an aneurysm.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Here is my personal encounter with a miracle, I'll relate what I learned from the beings that I spoke to about it.

I was having my first child and I sat up, altho my body still was lying down. Two vague forms were in the room and I could perceive what they were saying.

They said the baby I was having was shining but the body of the child would cause rears so it should not live. They wondered why humans cry. Please don't ask me what they meant, I am just reporting what happened.

I said the baby meant everything to us, I would teach the child about God and joy, please let the baby live. Their reply was that they could not do anything but follow---oh dear. Our communication was on a different level than speech. I know what they meant. They knew how the world was created to be and they must follow that, and as it was the baby should not live.

They seemed to think it wasn't right that I should enter their world.

Here is my point--they said they would ask permission to bypass how it should be. I think that is how miracles happen. Our world operates by set policies, but God will change it for us if we ask.

And, if you are curious, the baby lived for 21 years. She had extremely severe asthma we had a hard time living happily with and she died of an aneurysm.
Could be birth anticipation pains?

Jesus in Mathew 4 had what some refer to as out of the body. Lying spirits bringing in lying vision to one fleshly mind. and therefore produce a wonderment or state of doubt. But the Son of man the apostle Jesus was given words from the father as Lord to rebuke Satan again and again three times the words as it is written .And the vision or out of the body illusion disappeared . . The Son of man had no authority to rebuke. No power is attributed to the corrupted flesh of Jesus which is signified as sinful. God cannot sin.

Experience (no faith needed) is not the validator of the unseen spiritual things we do wrestles against. Colossians 2:18 reflects on that subject of Mathew 4 . We must be careful how we hear. Then we can find faith .
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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The Pentecostal understanding of this verse is far from correct. It does not say all knowledge. It is speaking to the knowledge given to the apostles to declare Christ from the OT scriptures. They did not have the complete NT when this passage was written. Paul is speaking to the completion of the NT scriptures. verse 12 shows those who will read it that we know ourselves in part. Men have always considered themselves righteous. The completed NT shows us how God sees us. The law was to show men they were unable to meet the standard of righteousness expected of God. Now the NT shows us the only Christ met the standard set by God.

Put away the childish things and grow in grace. Man up and trust Gods word to accomplish all that God has determined is should do. What we have here is a simple matter of unbelief. Refusal to believe Gods word and to trust wholly in Him.

Really this is but a childish plea for childish reasons. Most Pentecostals do not believe that God can and will save souls apart from miracles and wonders. Could it be that their personal faith is lacking?

When we appear weakest we are strongest in the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
What a butcher job of the bible.

cunning explaining away is not some eraser of verses
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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You're adding to Scripture to support your understanding. Nowhere in that passage (ch. 12-14) is "knowledge" described as such.


Verse 12 says nothing whatsoever about "reading". You're adding to Scripture again.


You are calling the quotation of and reference to Scripture "childish". That's foolish.
He also just made up that the gifts were only for the twelve.

Many recieved the baptism in the Holy Ghost in acts.
Heck maybe every believer since paul addresses entire congregations on protocol
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Paul was famous for his miracles. By name and reputation and specific acts duly recorded. Peter also. So please tell me the names of the miracle workers of the last.......hhmmm.....say 20 years as well as as the details of the incidences. Benn Hinn is excluded of course.

Anybody?
Myself
Jesus
The Holy Spirit
Wigglesworth
Sumerall
The hunters
Norvell hayes
David Hogan

Need more?
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Jesus said "these signs SHALL follow them that believe..."

Amen
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!