Retire the Ten Commandments?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
#41
[2] What, specifically, is the “handwriting of ordinances”, that Paul is speaking of, for he is again referring to the Old Testament usage from which he is quoting, and does he utilize the same language anywhere else in the NT, if so where?

What do we see of this "hand" "writ[ing]" of "ordinances"?​
By the “hand of Moses”: Leviticus 8:36, 10:11, 26:46; Numbers 4:37,45,49, 9:23, 10:13, 15:23, 16:40, 27:23, 36:13; Joshua 14:2, 20:2, 21:2,8, 22:9; Judges 3:4; 1 Kings 8:53,56; 2 Chronicles 33:8, 35:6; Nehemiah 9:14.​
Leviticus 8:36, 10:11, 26:46; Numbers 4:37,45,49, 9:23, 10:13, 15:23, 16:40, 27:23, 36:13; Joshua 14:2, 20:2, 21:2,8, 22:9; Judges 3:4; 1 Kings 8:53,56, and:​
2 Chronicles 33:8 KJB Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.​
2 Chronicles 35:6 KJB So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.​
Do you see that the "book of the Law" "of Moses", written by "Moses", given them by God to obey "all", placed outside [in the side] of the ark as a "witness against" ...
[Deuteronomy 31:26 "Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.";​
Colossians 2:14 "handwriting of ordinances";​
Ephesians 2:15 "the law of commandments contained in ordinances";​
Hebrews 9:1 "... also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.";​
Hebrews 9:10 "... meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances ...";​
Ezekiel 43:18 "... These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon."​
Luke 1:6 "... walking in all the commandments and ordinances ...";​
Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.";​
2 Chronicles 33:8 "... to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."]​
… them for their promises [Exodus 19 and Exodus 24], is not the same things as the Ten Commandments written by God Himself, placed in the ark itself?
exaleiyaV to kaq hmwn ceirografon toiV dogmasin o hn upenantion hmin kai auto hrken ek tou mesou proshlwsaV auto tw staurw​
The words "cheirografon toiV dogmasin" never mean "certificate of debt" in scripture [and that is not a literal equivalency, and even more than a 'dynamic', but truly someone's own private [incorrect] paraphrase]
cheirografon – G5498 N-ASN​
toiV – G3588 T-DPN​
dogmasin – G1378 N-DPN​
The word "cheirografon" literally means "cheiro" [hand] & "grafon" [writing]:
See "cheiro" [translated as “hand” 89 times or “hands” 90 times, per KJC] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G5495&t=KJB
See "grafon" [translated as “written” 121 times, or “write” 50 times, or “wrote” 21 times, or “describeth” 1 time or “writing” 1 time, per KJC] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1125&t=KJB
The word "toiV" can have several uses in scripture [KJB], and in this instance means "of" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3588&t=KJB
The word "dogmasin" literally means "dogma" [see Websters 1828 for helpful def., but always remember to define scripture by scripture] which comes to be:​
[1] "decrees" [Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4, 17:7] and,​
[2] "ordinances" [Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1378&t=KJB
The related word in the very same passage of Colossians 2, is "dogmatizesthe":​
Colossians 2:20 KJB Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,​
Yet we know that the Ten Commandments are not of this earth/world, not carnal, but of Heaven, spiritual:
Exodus 20:22 KJB And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
Romans 7:14 KJB For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.​
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,923
18,508
113
#42
The entire OT hinges on loving God and your Neighbor.....when you love someone, you do right by that person and no laws are required.......exactly why Jesus/Paul condensed the 10 down to 2 and then 1......

Romans 3......the laws purpose-->>deem all guilty before God, why? Because NO ONE CAN KEEP OR KEEPS THE LAW except JESUS.........

END OF STORY!
 
#43
[3] What is the definition of sin [1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23, etc] that Paul utilizes in the very context?

Colossians 2:11 KJB In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:​
Colossians 2:12 KJB Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​
Colossians 2:13 KJB And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses:​
See the like parallel, in Ephesians 2:
Ephesians 2:1 KJB And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;​
Ephesians 2:2 KJB Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:​
Ephesians 2:3 KJB Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​
Thus the similar phrases and relation to them all as found in:
[1] Colossians 2:14, “ordinances”,​
[2] Ephesians 2:15, “in ordinances”​
[3] Hebrews 9:1,10, “carnal ordinances”​
Also similar language is used in:
[1] Colossians 2:17, ”of things to come”​
[2] Ephesians 2:7, “ages to come”​
[3] Hebrews 9:11, “good things to come”.​
In quoting Colossians 2:14, as many do to justify their transgression of the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11):
Colossians 2:14 KJB Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;​
The context reveals, not the blotting out of sins, but of the blotting out of the "handwriting of ordinances".
[sub Q.] Where is the word sin used here in regards to the "blotting out" in vs 14?
It is not found at all in vs 14 and the "blotting out" does not reference the sins of vs 13, but is specifically identified in vs 14, the "handwriting of ordinances".​
The word "sins" is found in vs 11,13, but it speaks only of sins forgiven [covered], which may be demonstrated upon request is not the same thing as sins "blotted out", for it is obvious even at the first, that sins which are blotted out, need not be covered, and that which is covered, must yet be dealt with totally to be blotted out. According to Psalms 77:13 KJB, the sanctuary is a complete system of salvation/redemption, not merely a single act, but a process with multiple parts needing to be accomplished/finished, like as unto a building, laying a foundation, then building with stones, and finally the last portion. More on this in a later portion.​
Furthermore in vs 20, we see the word "ordinances" again used in connection with "worldly" human things, "the rudiments of the world" and "subject to ordinances", which are listed in vs 21-23, – 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.​
What are these handwritten ordinances and where may they be found in scripture? As already noted before, these are the very "ordinances" that may be found in Ephesians 2:15 and in Hebrews 9 and in the OT itself:
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; Ephesians 2:15​
Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Hebrews 9:1​
[Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:10​
These are the carnal ordinances, even the law of commandments in ordinances, even the handwritten ordinances [by Moses] imposed upon Israel back in the books of Moses. It is not anyone ones sins here, for these "ordinances" were for the "worldly sanctuary" to do its service, and for sacrifices, etc, see also Ezekiel 43:18
And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These [are] the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon. Ezekiel 43:18​
Luke 1:6 makes mention again of these, as other passages:
Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."​
Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it."​
2 Chronicles 33:8 "... take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."​
These refer to things, even as found in Numbers 9:3 KJB​
Numbers 9:3 KJB In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.​
In fact, when looking at the context of Colossians 2, in the handwritten [by Moses] “ordinances” thereof, we read nothing of the Ten Commandments, but only of things pertaining to the earthly sanctuary and its services, in carnal things, that came afterwards under the Levitical priesthood.​
See also for further detail:​
and more, but what was against the "us"?​
Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.​
And why was it a witness against the "thee"?​
Because of their promise they had made, which turned out to be faulty promises. They broke their side of the covenant made in Exodus 19 and 24, the words Moses are written upon parchment [scroll, lambskin, etc] and sprinkled with blood.​
Their agreement, the promises "to do all...we will do" [Exodus 19 & 24; “fault with them”; Hebrews 8:8 KJB], their covenant, which they brake, was nailed to the cross. In so nullifying that "old", the 'New' [really the Everlasting] was ratified by the blood of Jesus the true sacrifice.​
There was a "curse" upon the disobedient who had broken their promises. Christ became that "curse":​
Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:​
Look all day long at Exodus 20:1-17, and one will never find any such curses in God's perfect Ten Promises (Ephesians 6:2) of Love.
Having caused the (physical) "sacrfice and oblation" to cease:
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​
 
#44
NO ONE CAN KEEP OR KEEPS THE LAW except JESUS.........
That is not what God's word says:

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Jesus said:

Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Paul said:

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus said:

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Peter said:

1Pe_2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Jude said:

Jud_1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

John said:

1Jn_2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The Holy Ghost said:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jesus said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,923
18,508
113
#46
That is not what God's word says:

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Jesus said:

Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Paul said:

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus said:

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Peter said:

1Pe_2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Jude said:

Jud_1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

John said:

1Jn_2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The Holy Ghost said:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jesus said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Keep believing you keep the law...Romans 3 states you don't know what you are talking about!

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
20,209
8,811
113
54
#47
Keep believing you keep the law...Romans 3 states you don't know what you are talking about!

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
Amen! Typical long winded SDA propaganda and the end result being salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.” He is not fooling me. ;)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,923
18,508
113
#48
Amen! Typical long winded SDA propaganda and the end result being salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.” He is not fooling me. ;)
Amen....that makes two of us........faith plus law for = false gospel <-Galatians
 

ANG44

New member
Sep 25, 2018
25
33
3
Georgia
www.anteroresources.com
#49
WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
I wish his word was some place , in everything we do. No offense to the average person . Like , thou shalt not steal , thou shalt not kill or how about thou shalt not commit adultery. How's that for scripture ?
 

ANG44

New member
Sep 25, 2018
25
33
3
Georgia
www.anteroresources.com
#50
I love Jesus Christ. I do most everything from home anymore ,but His message sets me free. I am better with it than without. In a world of shootings and crime is it so hard to imagine a child needing a moment for prayer? It might be in their minds the last day on earth as they kiss mom or daddy goodbye. I say let them pray ! 😇
 
#51
long winded SDA propaganda
Ad hominem again and does not address what was cited - at all. If that is the approach you desire to take, I will not stop you, but it doesn't convince me either, but confirms me in what was shared.

I see where your heart is brother, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

God Himself spake the Ten Commandments, which is His own character, and even Jesus is the living demonstration of that character lived out, for the Law of God is in the heart of Jesus, Psalms 40:8 (for Jesus is the Ark), and His heart, is the New Covenant Heart, since the Everlasting Covenant (aka New Covenant) was between the Father and Son, as witnessed by the Holy Ghost in eternity. It was ratified by the blood of the Son of God at Calvary, and ratified by the Father after Jesus ascended.

I would ask you, brother, to reconsider 2 Corinthians 3 in its specific uses of words. Same Law of God, but differing Mediator. Same Law of God, but differing location. Same Law of God, but differing medium it is written upon. Same Law of God, but differing ministration. The glory of the Law of God, shines in the face of Jesus Christ, and is thus more glorious, see 2 Corinthians 4. The glory of Moses face has passed away, but the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ remaineth (vs 11).
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#52
Ad hominem again and does not address what was cited - at all.

I see where your heart is brother, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

God Himself spake the Ten Commandments, which is His own character, and even Jesus is the living demonstration of that character lived out, for the Law of God is in the heart of Jesus, Psalms 40:8 (for Jesus is the Ark), and His heart, is the New Covenant Heart, since the Everlasting Covenant (aka New Covenant) was between the Father and Son, as witnessed by the Holy Ghost in eternity. It was ratified by the blood of the Son of God at Calvary, and ratified by the Father after Jesus ascended.

I would ask you, brother, to reconsider 2 Corinthians 3 in its specific uses of words. Same Law of God, but differing Mediator. Same Law of God, but differing location. Same Law of God, but differing medium it is written upon. Same Law of God, but differing ministration. The glory of the Law of God, shines in the face of Jesus Christ, and is thus more glorious, see 2 Corinthians 4. The glory of Moses face has passed away, but the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ remaineth (vs 11).
Do you keep all of the law?
 
#53
Continuing with Colossians 2:

[4] Where does Paul get the words "... against us ... contrary to us..." from, in the context of the passages he is quoting from in the Old Testament, and what does it mean there?

Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.​
Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.​
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:​
Deuteronomy 8:19 KJB - And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.​
Leviticus 26:21 KJB - And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.​
2 Kings 17:15 KJB And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.​
Nehemiah 9:34 KJB Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them.​
Etc.

The Law of God, the Ten Commandments, are the Law of Life [to transgress them is to die; Romans 6:23 KJB], and not ever against the promises, but are always and ever in harmony with them, being the very foundation of His government, and in fact, each of the Ten Commandments is a promise of God, in the New Covenant, that He will fulfill in those who have faith in Him to do it:

Galatians 3:21 KJB Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​
 
#54
[5] In verse 16 there is a list of "ordinances" that are found given in that order [and other], in the Old Testament, what are they referring to there, and where is Paul quoting from?

Colossians 2:16 KJB Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:​

Paul is quoting from (you will want to look up that word “solemnities”):

Ezekiel 45:17 KJB And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.​
 
#55
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
I am not speaking about the condmenation, which a true Christian is not under. Hence we, who are Christians, are under Grace, see Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-8, and so on. I am speaking of the fruit of faith, which is obedience to God's will (Psalms 40:8) in salvation, not for salvation.
 
#56
[6] Is there a significance to the specific ordering that Paul utilizes of those "ordinances"?, In other words, is there a specific time frame involved for each item in the list [for ex. daily, seasonally, monthly, yearly [or of years, etc]]

There is. The order is given as:​
[1] "daily" [in meat, or in drink [offerings]],​
[2] "seasonally" [or in respect of an holyday; ie feast days of seasons, Spring, Fall]​
[3] "monthly" [of the new moon]​
[4] "annually, yearly, and 7th year and 50th Year" ["of the sabbath [days]" [plural]].​
In Colossians 2:16 KJB the word [days] was added as a help text by the translators since the word in the Greek for Sabbath [days] is a Noun Genitive Plural Neuter, being sabbatwn Strong's Concordance G4521 N-GPN. So the text is not speaking of a single sabbath, but many, and not speaking of every sabbath in scripture [KJB], because it only deals with the specific “ordinances” “hand” written by Moses. To know which sabbaths it is speaking of we must look at the immediate context [cited above].​
In the [context] we see "handwriting of ordinances". These "ordinances" are not referencing the "spiritual" Ten Commandments. Rather these "handwriting of ordinances" are in reference to the "carnal ordinances" associated with the "worldly sanctuary" given under the "levitical priesthood" for "divine service". The Ten Commandments were given before there ever was a "worldly sanctuary" or "levitical priesthood" [this is not to say that the levites did not exist, it is saying that they were not yet ordained into "levitical priesthood"]. We can see this further in Ephesians and Hebrews:​
Ephesians 2:15 KJB Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;​
Again, not the Ten Commandments, but rather that which was commanded "in ordinances". They which were given for "divine service" in a "worldly sanctuary" which was patterned after the Heavenly and True Tabernacle which "the Lord pitched and not man".​
Hebrews 9:1 KJB Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.​
Hebrews 9:6 KJB Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service [of God].​
[1.] "in meat, or in drink" [offerings] [daily/continual] compare to:​
Hebrews 9:10 KJB [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.​
Hebrews 10:8 KJB Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;​
Which Law dealt with sacrifices?​
The "spiritual" Ten Commandments spoken from "Heaven" dealing with the "conscience of sins"? or rather "the commandments [contained] in ordinances", those "carnal ordinances" for "divine service" and a "worldy sanctuary"?​
[2.] "or in respect of an holyday" holy [feast] day; based upon the seasons, "seasonal"]. The word in the Greek for "holyday" is εορτης and means "a feast or festival" [Strong's Concordance]. These were "seasonal".​
Leviticus 23:4 KJB These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.​
A list of them may be found in Leviticus 23 and elsewhere [ie, Leviticus 23:44, etc]:​
Spring Feasts:
Passover: Leviticus 23:5 [Jesus dies AD 31, First Month - Abib/Nisan 14th, the 6th Day, 3 PM]​
Feast of Unleavened Bread: Leviticus 23:6-8 [Jesus in the Tomb, Abib/Nisan 15th, the 7th Day]​
Feast of Firstfruits [Wave Sheaf]: Leviticus 23:10-14 [Jesus resurrected, Abib/Nisan 16th, 1st day]​
Pentecost [Feast of Weeks]: Leviticus 23:15-22 [Jesus, in the Holy Place, pouring of the Holy Spirit, Acts 1-3, etc Revelation 5:6, etc]​
Long Summer
Fall Feasts:
Feast Of Trumpets: Leviticus 23:24-25 [Jesus, announcing coming Judgment, about to move, the bell is heard, 1833/4, Miller goes forward, Advent movement, etc]​
Day Of Atonement: Leviticus 23:27-32 [Now taking place, in progress]​
Feast of Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering: Leviticus 23:34-43 [Harvest, and on into Millennium and then into eternity]​
Yet, moreso specifically, we see that these “heorte” [Feast] refers to the Three Specific feasts that were in their “seasons”:​
[1] the feast of Unleavened Bread,​
[2] the feast of Weeks [Pentecost],​
[3] the feast of Tabernacles, wherein they had to come up to Jerusalem:​
Exodus 23:14 KJB - Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.​
Exodus 23:17 KJB - Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.​
Deuteronomy 16:16 KJB - Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:​
1 Kings 9:25 KJB - And three times in a year did Solomon offer burnt offerings and peace offerings upon the altar which he built unto the LORD, and he burnt incense upon the altar that [was] before the LORD. So he finished the house.​
2 Chronicles 8:13 KJB - Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, [even] in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.​
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#57
I am not speaking about the condmenation, which a true Christian is not under. Hence we, who are Christians, are under Grace, see Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-8, and so on. I am speaking of the fruit of faith, which is obedience to God's will (Psalms 40:8) in salvation, not for salvation.
So are you saying the saved person "keeps the law" as a fruit of obedience?
 
#58
[6] ...

[3.] "or of the new moon" [monthly, based upon phases of the moon]:​
Genesis 1:14 KJB And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:​
Genesis 1:16 KJB And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.​
See also, that there are “ordinances” of the moon, were sacrifices, blowing trumpets, etc:
Numbers 28:11 KJB And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;​
Numbers 28:12 KJB And three tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one bullock; and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one ram;​
Numbers 28:13 KJB And a several tenth deal of flour mingled with oil for a meat offering unto one lamb; for a burnt offering of a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD.​
Numbers 28:14 KJB And their drink offerings shall be half an hin of wine unto a bullock, and the third part of an hin unto a ram, and a fourth part of an hin unto a lamb: this is the burnt offering of every month throughout the months of the year.​
Numbers 28:15 KJB And one kid of the goats for a sin offering unto the LORD shall be offered, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.​
Jeremiah 31:35 KJB Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:​
Jeremiah 31:36 KJB If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.​
Jeremiah 33:25 KJB Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not withday and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;​
Psalms 81:3 KJB Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.​
Psalms 81:4 KJB For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.​
Psalms 81:5 KJB This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.​
Ezra 3:5 KJB And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.​
Ezekiel 45:17 KJB And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.​
Ezekiel 46:6 KJB And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.​
The New Moons, were but the type of a greater antitype:
New Moon to Another:
Isaiah 66:22 KJB For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.​
Isaiah 66:23 KJB And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.​
Indeed, consider:
Ezekiel 47:12 KJB And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.​
Revelation 2:7 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.​
Revelation 22:2 KJB - In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.​
Revelation 22:14 KJB - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​
 
#60
[7] In verse 16, the verse says, "...of the sabbath [days]", which is plural in the very Greek itself, as well as English in the KJB, what "sabbath days" then is Paul referring to specifically, and how may we know?

[4.] "or of the sabbath [days]" [plural, multiple yearly sabbaths, the typological [not memorial, as Creation], shadow, yearly, 7th year and 50th years given under the levitical priesthood]​
[1] The Yearly sabbaths that came based upon the phases of the moon: Leviticus 23:4 and onward, each associated with the "worldly sanctuary" and "divine service" under the "levitical priesthood" and "carnal ordinances", all being "shadows" of "good things to come".​
[2] The 7th year sabbath: Leviticus 25:2-7​
Leviticus 25:2 KJB Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.​
Leviticus 25:3 KJB Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;​
Leviticus 25:4 KJB But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.​
Leviticus 25:5 KJB That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.​
Leviticus 25:6 KJB And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,​
Leviticus 25:7 KJB And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.​
[3] The 50th year sabbath: Leviticus 25:7-17; being ending in the Day of Atonement, called the sabbath of sabbaths.​
Leviticus 25:7 KJB And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.​
Leviticus 25:8 KJB And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.​
Leviticus 25:9 KJB Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.​
Leviticus 25:10 KJB And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.​
Leviticus 25:11 KJB A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.​
Leviticus 25:12 KJB For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.​
Leviticus 25:13 KJB In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession.​
Leviticus 25:14 KJB And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:​
Leviticus 25:15 KJB According to the number of years after the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:​
Leviticus 25:16 KJB According to the multitude of years thou shalt increase the price thereof, and according to the fewness of years thou shalt diminish the price of it: for according to the number of the years of the fruits doth he sell unto thee.​
Leviticus 25:17 KJB Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God: for I am the LORD your God.​
Therefore, these things, the “ordinances” associated with these things listed were but “shadow” to be fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus Christ, not merely upon earth, upon also in Heaven.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;​
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.​
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:​
Colossians 2:17 KJB Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.​
Ephesians 2:7 KJB That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.​
Ephesians 2:15 KJB Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;​
Ephesians 2:16 KJB And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:​
Hebrews 9:11 KJB But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;​
Hebrews 10:1 KJB For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.​
The section of Colossians 2:14-17, exists between Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20-22:
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.​
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,​
Colossians 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;​
Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?​
Related passages:
Matthew 15:9 KJB But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​
Mark 7:7 KJB Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​
Titus 1:14 KJB Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.​
The Ten Commandments, the spiritual [Romans 7:14 KJB] Law ever [always] point out God's perfect character, written by God Himself, with His own finger/Holy Spirit, on Tables of Stone [now the Heart], place inside of the Ark [representing the Heart of God, even Jesus, Psalms 40:8], beneath the Mercy Seat, as God's standard of righteousness, and thus transgression [falling short of them as they are in the Life of Christ] of them is always sin.​
The "ordinances", in those “carnal”, “worldly” things of “service”, handwritten in the Book of the Law, by Moses, placed in the side of the ark, as a witness against Israel, included sacrifices, offerings, blowing of trumpets, etc, which pointed out the Saviour and His ministry [earthly and Heavenly] to come because of sin, and who would save us from sin, which is transgression of His Law, as per 1 John 3:4, etc.​