Rev; 22, 18 & 19

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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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#21
Well, it depends on what you mean by prophecy and prophesy Bro.

Peter did say:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And we see Agabus:

Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

That said, Paul did predict an end to these things:

1 Cor 13:8 (NASB) Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

And Revelation 10:11 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/10-11.htm which by definition is a prediction of future events?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
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#23
What does it say about a prophet and his prophesy in the Word?
Prophecy is the word of God . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, prophecy. The function of prophets .
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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#24
with that in mind is Revelation the fulfillment of Luke 24:44? (is it describing prophecy or prophesy)?
Yes but you must continue reading to verse 49 and consider the event described in the second chapter of Acts as well. Abraham considered Gods word as good as fulfilled in his own time. It was counted as righteousness. Through his faith and Gods Grace his descendants were saved though faith in spite of sins like David. When the Jews that rejected the he Lord are judged they will face a different judgement than those who receive him and the inheritance of the Jews that rejected Christ will be withheld from them and passed instead onto persons of all races who did/do receive the Lord.

His word is true and what he said will happen and we must take it on faith as if already happened because God transcends time. In our understanding of time from a human perspective many things must come to pass especially the second comming.

proph·e·cy
[ˈpräfəsē]

NOUN, a title for prediction. prophesy a verb. describing prophecy in action.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,905
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#25
Prophecy is the word of God . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, prophecy. The function of prophets .
My reference here is to how when a prophet prophesies and event, he is proven true if it occurs. If it does not, he is not a prophet.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
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#26
Yes but you must continue reading to verse 49 and consider the event described in the second chapter of Acts as well. Abraham considered Gods word as good as fulfilled in his own time. It was counted as righteousness. Through his faith and Gods Grace his descendants were saved though faith in spite of sins like David. When the Jews that rejected the he Lord are judged they will face a different judgement than those who receive him and the inheritance of the Jews will be withheld and passed instead onto persons of all races who do receive the Lord.

His word is true and what he said will happen and we must take it on faith as if already happened because God transcends time. In our understanding of time from a human perspective many things must come to pass especially the second comming.

proph·e·cy
[ˈpräfəsē]

NOUN, a title for prediction. prophesy a verb. describing prophecy in action.

The gospel is not passed on through races. It has nothing to do with corruptible flesh of any nation. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God they simply do not belong to Him.

I would use another word other than prediction when describing prophecy .Prophecy is simply the word of God .

I would say NOUN, a title for revelation or interpretation . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, His interpretation. This is whether it speaks of thing present, things that were or things to come. Many use it in respect to a prediction and leave out its timeless ability to reveal the thoughts of God.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#27
In order to receive the blessing from hearing the Word in the book of Revelation, one must understand what the Word in Revelation is describing.
In order to understand what the Word in Revelation describes, study and discussion need to occur.
We just need to be careful not to add or remove Word from the book.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
975
113
#28
My reference here is to how when a prophet prophesies and event, he is proven true if it occurs. If it does not, he is not a prophet.
I would agree.

How would that apply to someone who says they had received new prophecy which would of been prophesied before as repeated . As a way of saying they heard a private audible voice ?

When God brings the same prophecy, would each time it be considered new ?

Or like when someone does give a prediction of a future event and it does come to pass .Would that be considered prophecy as equal to a prophet of God?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
975
113
#29
In order to receive the blessing from hearing the Word in the book of Revelation, one must understand what the Word in Revelation is describing.
In order to understand what the Word in Revelation describes, study and discussion need to occur.
We just need to be careful not to add or remove Word from the book.
In setting the format for the book of Revelation .We are not only informed that the word was inspired but also it was signified. The poetic language of parables. They hide the spiritual understanding through out the book revealing the mystery to those who do rightly divide. . It is like one continuing parable.

From my experience many would have other literalize it and take away the unseen spiritual understanding that gives us the gospel hid from natural man

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In that way tools like that in 2 Corinthian 4 are need to unlock the mysteries in those parables in order to rightly divide

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthian 4:18
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#30
In setting the format for the book of Revelation .We are not only informed that the word was inspired but also it was signified. The poetic language of parables. They hide the spiritual understanding through out the book revealing the mystery to those who do rightly divide. . It is like one continuing parable.

From my experience many would have other literalize it and take away the unseen spiritual understanding that gives us the gospel hid from natural man

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In that way tools like that in 2 Corinthian 4 are need to unlock the mysteries in those parables in order to rightly divide

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthian 4:18
2 Corinthians 4 does give us information in regards to the beast and its mouth which appear in Revelation 13.
Additionally, the beast and its mouth (aka the antichrist), are also described in Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, & 11.
There is also a lot of information on these entities in other books of the bible, especially in Isaiah.
When we put all these scriptures together correctly, we then have a much clearer picture of what is being described in Revelation.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
83
#31
In context, Rev 22:18-19 refers only to adding or taking away from the book of Revelation alone, not to defining doctrine for the purpose of dealing with false teachers or cults like the early church did. Those coming up with personal prophecies and setting dates for the second coming are the ones at risk. At the time this book was written there was not a formal canon defined by the church. Various local churches recognized books from the apostles at valid. Some books today that are not considered to be scripture were also recognized by local churches as scripture.

Revelation 22:18-20 Good News Translation (GNT)
Conclusion
18 I, John, solemnly warn everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: if any add anything to them, God will add to their punishment the plagues described in this book. 19 And if any take anything away from the prophetic words of this book, God will take away from them their share of the fruit of the tree of life and of the Holy City, which are described in this book.

20 He who gives his testimony to all this says, “Yes indeed! I am coming soon!”

So be it. Come, Lord Jesus!

There is a similar warning elsewhere,

Deuteronomy 4:2 Good News Translation (GNT)
2 Do not add anything to what I command you, and do not take anything away. Obey the commands of the Lord your God that I have given you.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
735
409
63
#32
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

I was taught no valid doctrines after that point can ever exist. They are only to be taken as commentaries, suggestions or opinions and are not the word of God but of people. There are no other valid Bible texts. Let's just talk about it like adults.
I think the book of Revelation shows us not only the truth of what will be, but what has always been. It's discovering, uncovering, unveiling the truth of Jesus Christ. It's the testimony of himself not only coming in the 1st century, or returning again, but also his witness in Spirit in the lives of believers thoughout all history.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,156
4,142
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lawton ok
#33
The gospel is not passed on through races. It has nothing to do with corruptible flesh of any nation. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God they simply do not belong to Him.

I would use another word other than prediction when describing prophecy .Prophecy is simply the word of God .

I would say NOUN, a title for revelation or interpretation . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, His interpretation. This is whether it speaks of thing present, things that were or things to come. Many use it in respect to a prediction and leave out its timeless ability to reveal the thoughts of God.
I was referring to when Jews were the chosen people 2000 years ago. When Jesus was sacrificed the covenant was fulfilled. After they refused Christ as a nation they were passed over in favor of all who believe in Jesus thus a new covenant. Perhaps nation would better word.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,156
4,142
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lawton ok
#34
I think the book of Revelation shows us not only the truth of what will be, but what has always been. It's discovering, uncovering, unveiling the truth of Jesus Christ. It's the testimony of himself not only coming in the 1st century, or returning again, but also his witness in Spirit in the lives of believers throughout all history.
Prediction came from an online thesaurus and the different spellings of prophesy and prophecy separate the usage between noun and verb. The difference is more dialectic in writing. They are pronounced the same but spelled different. One is in regards to subject matter. The other refers to action. I just learned it today as I never noticed the difference in spelling before so I looked them up.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
975
113
#35
2 Corinthians 4 does give us information in regards to the beast and its mouth which appear in Revelation 13.
Additionally, the beast and its mouth (aka the antichrist), are also described in Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, & 11.
There is also a lot of information on these entities in other books of the bible, especially in Isaiah.
When we put all these scriptures together correctly, we then have a much clearer picture of what is being described in Revelation.
I would agree . When we search for the unseen spiritual understanding in parables we must compare the spiritual understanding to the same or called faith to faith. If we look to the literal we can miss the blessing hid in parables.

I think a good example of the antichrists( plural) the many that were there when the new testament was penned. . It is shown with Peter as the number of man a beast of the field influenced by the god of this word as the spirit (singular) of the antichrists.

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy because it was in respect to the Son of man seen . Today it would not be forgiven seeing it would be against God the Holy Spirit not seen who dwells in that Holy unseen place .

Peter learned the lesson the hard way .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Those who are not for Christ are against him. In that way no man can serve two masters . The things of men seen the temporal and those of God not seen, the eternal
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,513
507
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#36
Yes but you must continue reading to verse 49 and consider the event described in the second chapter of Acts as well. Abraham considered Gods word as good as fulfilled in his own time. It was counted as righteousness. Through his faith and Gods Grace his descendants were saved though faith in spite of sins like David. When the Jews that rejected the he Lord are judged they will face a different judgement than those who receive him and the inheritance of the Jews that rejected Christ will be withheld from them and passed instead onto persons of all races who did/do receive the Lord.

His word is true and what he said will happen and we must take it on faith as if already happened because God transcends time. In our understanding of time from a human perspective many things must come to pass especially the second comming.

proph·e·cy
[ˈpräfəsē]

NOUN, a title for prediction. prophesy a verb. describing prophecy in action.

I agree in the definition of the words. To make it more clear what you/I/we are discussing in the o.p.(Revelation 22:18-19) in it it uses the word as a noun twice. Which is correct in that it is referring to the Revelation(book) as a noun which it does many times from chapter 1 to chapter 22(refers to it as a noun) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/22.htm so the word ends with "ecy=noun".

In post #'s 21&22 what I am saying is that in the Revelation(noun) it states twice (Rev.10:11 & Rev.11:3) that twice someone would give additional prophecy(noun) and in both cases they end with "esy"(verb ). So in the Revelation John gives prophesy( the act,verb "esy") and what he states in the next chapter(Rev.11:3) is that the two witnesses will also at a later time prophesy(verb). So in the Revelation it states that someone would afterward prophesy(verb).

And so the warning in Revelation 22:18:19 is in regards to adding or taking away from it itself(that book) if not the two witnesses would be adding prophecy(noun) to it. So John commits the verb in Revelation 10:11 and foretells that in the future two witnesses will also prophesy(Rev.11:3) so it is stating that it is not the last prophecy.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,156
4,142
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lawton ok
#37
I agree in the definition of the words. To make it more clear what you/I/we are discussing in the o.p.(Revelation 22:18-19) in it it uses the word as a noun twice. Which is correct in that it is referring to the Revelation(book) as a noun which it does many times from chapter 1 to chapter 22(refers to it as a noun) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/22.htm so the word ends with "ecy=noun".

In post #'s 21&22 what I am saying is that in the Revelation(noun) it states twice (Rev.10:11 & Rev.11:3) that twice someone would give additional prophecy(noun) and in both cases they end with "esy"(verb ). So in the Revelation John gives prophesy( the act,verb "esy") and what he states in the next chapter(Rev.11:3) is that the two witnesses will also at a later time prophesy(verb). So in the Revelation it states that someone would afterward prophesy(verb).

And so the warning in Revelation 22:18:19 is in regards to adding or taking away from it itself(that book) if not the two witnesses would be adding prophecy(noun) to it. So John commits the verb in Revelation 10:11 and foretells that in the future two witnesses will also prophesy(Rev.11:3) so it is stating that it is not the last prophecy.
I honestly thought they were 1 word with 2 meanings depending on context, as English has many. Thank you
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,513
507
113
#38
I honestly thought they were 1 word with 2 meanings depending on context, as English has many. Thank you

lol, It is confusing I admit. Jesus is stating in Luke 24:44 that the things written in the law of Moses, Prophets and Psalms(already foretold) were unfolding. And then there are the other prophesies (verb) that the sons and daughters foretold/foretell and that the two witnesses would also do this again(Acts,Isaiah,Joel, Revelation) .
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
975
113
#39
with that in mind is Revelation the fulfillment of Luke 24:44? (is it describing prophecy or prophesy)?
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Mark 24:44

The words (which I spake unto you) are prophecy, God's word. The work of God moving the prophet declaring them is to prophesy. They would be called apostles as those sent with prophecy.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,227
975
113
#40
So in the Revelation John gives prophesy( the act,verb "esy") and what he states in the next chapter(Rev.11:3) is that the two witnesses will also at a later time prophesy(verb). So in the Revelation it states that someone would afterward prophesy (verb).
I would offer. So in the Revelation John gives prophecy "c"not "s"...by prophesying "s" not "c" or declaring the will of God, prophecy. It is all one action or work not something ones does afterward..