Rev; 22, 18 & 19

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Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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#41
Prediction came from an online thesaurus and the different spellings of prophesy and prophecy separate the usage between noun and verb. The difference is more dialectic in writing. They are pronounced the same but spelled different. One is in regards to subject matter. The other refers to action. I just learned it today as I never noticed the difference in spelling before so I looked them up.
Yes, to prophesy is to speak (action). Prophecy is the content of the message (subject).

I wondered, why are people blessed for reading, hearing and keeping this particular prophecy (Rev.1:3)? Then it hit me. The prophecy isn't particular. It's been told and retold throughout the scriptures, but not seen clearly until Jesus fulfilled them. Its his witness of Satan's rebellion and influence over mankind and God's victory by Christ thoughout all time.
 
Sep 3, 2018
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#42
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

I was taught no valid doctrines after that point can ever exist. They are only to be taken as commentaries, suggestions or opinions and are not the word of God but of people. There are no other valid Bible texts. Let's just talk about it like adults.
I'm in agreement with your original statement. Wanted to add that some information contained in the scroll may be 'encoded' in a manner so that it isn't readily apparent. The author might have wanted to discourage anyone from modifying it because it would ruin the encoded information. Having said that, the majority of the OT and NT is readily understood. On the flip side, the majority of churches may not understand the OT very well at all. Easily understood, and yet misunderstood. I wonder who created all the confusion...
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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#43
The truth is there cannot be anything after Revelation 22, for then the saints are with Jesus at the New Jerusalem, a new heaven and earth, and the former heaven and earth are gone, and shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.

So how can you add anything after Revelation 22.

There are some people that add, and take away, by believing what they want to believe concerning the book of Revelation.


Hey! Matt... : )

We're told that Jesus learned obedience from the things that he suffered. Where does it say that we will loose our memories? The Lord is able to comfort us and wipe away our tears without ever touching our memories. How can I be sure that I'll never blaspheme the Holy Spirit if I forget that I learned obedience? Or how I came to love the Lord as I do?

Each of us are given a white stone with the name only known to that one and the Lord. I suspect that we'll get to learn everyone there by such, sooner or later.

The leaves from the tree of life that is found on the banks of the River of life in New Jerusalem, are for the healing of nations. Which begs to ask, what nations?

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

"And this is life eternal, that thy might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Just think, we'll be able to share with each other about the things of the Lord even in eternity too. Hopefully not as we do now-a-days, though!

So Matt, I know that this probably isn't what you were referring to regarding nothing after Rev 22, but you got me going... lol
Jesus come quickly! PTL!
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
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#44
Prophecy is the word of God . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, prophecy. The function of prophets .

Hey! garee... : )

1 cor 14:3 "But he that propheseth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

1 Cor 14:24, 25 "But if all prophesy and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest, and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."
PTL!
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
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#45
We're told that Jesus learned obedience from the things that he suffered. Where does it say that we will loose our memories? The Lord is able to comfort us and wipe away our tears without ever touching our memories. How can I be sure that I'll never blaspheme the Holy Spirit if I forget that I learned obedience? Or how I came to love the Lord as I do?

There are a few references that speak to that matter

Remember we are not what we will be. Flesh and blood will not enter the new heavens and earth .

Memory loss along with vision, hearing, balance etc begins here as a part of death and corruption the wage of sin . When a person does passes from this realm under the Sun there whole memory is forgotten .You could say universalism Alzheimer's.

Here the lord is able to comfort us and wipe away our tears without ever touching our memories of them that have left . It would be terrible if we lost memory of them when they departed. I could not imagine the confusion.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun .Ecclesiastics 9:5-6

Isaiah 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If we did maintain our memories and not see a loved one the suffering would continue there would be no rest from that work. We rest partially now when we do not harden our hearts but then perfect rest from the things that cause us pain.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#46
Hey! garee... : )

1 cor 14:3 "But he that propheseth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

1 Cor 14:24, 25 "But if all prophesy and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest, and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."
PTL!
1 Cor 14:3.... Yes the prophecy of God that edifies God it exhorts us as it comforts us..

I prefer the translation below its easier for me to understand that words have meanings . If they did not understand they would not realize there are sinners, because they hear God's interpretation in their own tongue they can receive exhortation, and comfort. .

But suppose all of you are prophesying when those unbelievers and outsiders come in. They will realize that they are sinners, and they will want to change their ways because of what you are saying. They will tell what is hidden in their hearts. Then they will kneel down and say to God, “We are certain that you are with these people.” 1 Cor 14:24, 25

No certainty with noises that have no meaning.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
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#47
1 Cor 14:3.... Yes the prophecy of God that edifies God it exhorts us as it comforts us..

I prefer the translation below its easier for me to understand that words have meanings . If they did not understand they would not realize there are sinners, because they hear God's interpretation in their own tongue they can receive exhortation, and comfort. .

But suppose all of you are prophesying when those unbelievers and outsiders come in. They will realize that they are sinners, and they will want to change their ways because of what you are saying. They will tell what is hidden in their hearts. Then they will kneel down and say to God, “We are certain that you are with these people.” 1 Cor 14:24, 25

No certainty with noises that have no meaning.

Well yes, easier to understand; but sadly, with a completely different meaning... Yiikes!
 
Sep 3, 2018
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#48
Luke 9
51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,

52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.

53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

From Wikipedia:
Elijah meaning "My God is Yahweh/YHWH" was, according to the Books of Kings in the Hebrew Bible, a prophet and a miracle worker who lived in the northern kingdom of Israel during the reign of King Ahab (9th century BC). In 1 Kings 18, Elijah defended the worship of the Hebrew God over that of the Canaanite deity Baal. God also performed many miracles through Elijah, including resurrection (raising the dead), bringing fire down from the sky, and entering Heaven alive "by fire".

What spirit was Elias of? Note, I'm not referring to John the Baptist. Appears to me that Elias is one of the 'characters' in the Book of Revelations?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
#49
I'm in agreement with your original statement. Wanted to add that some information contained in the scroll may be 'encoded' in a manner so that it isn't readily apparent. The author might have wanted to discourage anyone from modifying it because it would ruin the encoded information. Having said that, the majority of the OT and NT is readily understood. On the flip side, the majority of churches may not understand the OT very well at all. Easily understood, and yet misunderstood. I wonder who created all the confusion...
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#50
I would agree . When we search for the unseen spiritual understanding in parables we must compare the spiritual understanding to the same or called faith to faith. If we look to the literal we can miss the blessing hid in parables.

I think a good example of the antichrists( plural) the many that were there when the new testament was penned. . It is shown with Peter as the number of man a beast of the field influenced by the god of this word as the spirit (singular) of the antichrists.

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy because it was in respect to the Son of man seen . Today it would not be forgiven seeing it would be against God the Holy Spirit not seen who dwells in that Holy unseen place .

Peter learned the lesson the hard way .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Those who are not for Christ are against him. In that way no man can serve two masters . The things of men seen the temporal and those of God not seen, the eternal
When the Lord rebuked Peter, He was aware that the spirit of Satan inside Peter was deceiving him into saying what he was saying.
Even later we see Peter deceived by Satan, with Paul admonishing him on his double standard between Jews and non Jews.
We are all currently deceived by Satan (Revelation 12:9).

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#51
When the Lord rebuked Peter, He was aware that the spirit of Satan inside Peter was deceiving him into saying what he was saying.
Even later we see Peter deceived by Satan, with Paul admonishing him on his double standard between Jews and non Jews.

We are all currently deceived by Satan (Revelation 12:9).

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The reference to deceiving the whole world , "whole world" is used as it is in 1 John2:2 as a reference to not the just the Jewish world .

Because we have Christ we can believe God and not be deceived.. Whole world is not a blanket statement. or 1 John would teach universalism . Christ died for as many as the father gave him. Not one more or one less

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
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#52
Well yes, easier to understand; but sadly, with a completely different meaning... Yiikes!
LOL Yes a meaning that looks to the foundation of the doctrine.....Yikes!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#53
"4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Does anyone know who the beast is?
Good day devoiler,

No one can know presently who the beast is. Some things to understand regarding the beast is that scripture states that he is a fallen angel who is called abaddon/Apollyon (destroyer) and is currently in the Abyss. His human counterpart will be the man of lawlessness, the antichrist.

"They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek it is Apollyon. (Rev.9:11)

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." (Rev.17:8)

"The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction." (Rev.17:11)

I believe that the antichrist/man of lawlessness will be empowered by the beast when he comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, which is just prior to the middle of the seven years. And when He does, he will kill the two witnesses who will have been prophesying for the last 3 1/2 years:

"When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them. (Rev.11:7)

The church however, will not be here to see the man of lawlessness, as the Lord will have descended to the atmosphere and removed His church prior to his revealing. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess. 4:13-18)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,535
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#54
I'm in agreement with your original statement. Wanted to add that some information contained in the scroll may be 'encoded' in a manner so that it isn't readily apparent. The author might have wanted to discourage anyone from modifying it because it would ruin the encoded information. Having said that, the majority of the OT and NT is readily understood. On the flip side, the majority of churches may not understand the OT very well at all. Easily understood, and yet misunderstood. I wonder who created all the confusion...
I would remind you that, God is the author and John is the writer. John did not add anything to the book of Revelation based on his own understanding, but did as the Lord told him which was:

"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."

The verse above is in fact the key to understand the chronological order of Revelation:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period

What will take place later = All of the events which take place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period

The "what will place later" is initiated in Rev.4:1-2 where the voice that sounds like a trumpet (Jesus) says, "come up here," which is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word church used from that point on, ergo, the church has been removed from the earth. Following that will be the wrath of God which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with the first seal rider on the white horse representing the antichrist.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,928
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#55
Prediction came from an online thesaurus and the different spellings of prophesy and prophecy separate the usage between noun and verb. The difference is more dialectic in writing. They are pronounced the same but spelled different. One is in regards to subject matter. The other refers to action. I just learned it today as I never noticed the difference in spelling before so I looked them up.
Most people don't notice the difference in spelling, so they misuse them. Readers can usually determine which part of speech is being applied by considering context. It's one of the more common errors of usage prevalent on this site.

They are pronounced differently. The verb form is "pro' fe sigh'" with emphasis on both the first and last syllables, while the noun form is "pro' fe see" with emphasis only on the first syllable. :)
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#56
The reference to deceiving the whole world , "whole world" is used as it is in 1 John2:2 as a reference to not the just the Jewish world .

Because we have Christ we can believe God and not be deceived.. Whole world is not a blanket statement. or 1 John would teach universalism . Christ died for as many as the father gave him. Not one more or one less

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
I totally agree, the reference to the whole world in Revelation 12:9 includes you, me, and everyone who are currently deceived by Satan.
Example: Here on this forum many believe their views on scriptures are the right ones, provided to them by the Holy Spirit.
The problem with this, however, is that we have many here who believe this and have differnent views on scriptures, we then see that some, if not all of these views are wrong, and not provided to them by the Holy Spirit, but provided to them by the deceiver of all mankind.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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#57
As previously brought up on this thread I wonder if their was a message not discernable by the human mind for those with a spiritual gift that got either obscured or obliterated when the original scroll was translate into more modern languages resulting in that message became lost in time. Perhaps our current translations of the book of revelations are thus incomplete and greater caution should be taken in trying to determine the true meanings or who the antichrist, his minions and the nations involved are. I think it's better to admit we don't know than to make false predictions based on incomplete data.

I admit I don't know.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
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#58
No one can know presently who the beast is. Some things to understand regarding the beast is that scripture states that he is a fallen angel who is called abaddon/Apollyon (destroyer) and is currently in the Abyss. His human counterpart will be the man of lawlessness, the antichrist.
The beast of the field as the signified number of natural unconverted man is "666" He was created on day 6 .

The phrase "Beast of the field" is used in relation to the dust or clay of the field that man was formed of .Adam is identified as one of the beast of the field. Cain who refused to hear the word of God was marked (666) as a restless wander receiving no rest that could of come from hearing God if he would of believed. This is when we do not harden our hearts in unbelief. It was a punishment more that Cain could bear. Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear" (verse 4:13 of Genesis ) . The punishment that Christ bore in our place who bore our sin on the cross.

And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. Genesis 2:19 20

The antichrists which were many at the time 1 John 2 was written are those who insist we need a man seen to teach us. . This shows they are not walking by faith but are walking by sight after the literal, as that seen.

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he made to us[e]—eternal life. I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.1 John 2:22-27

A excellent example of the working of the antichrists (plural) as many is show with Peter under the influence of the spirit of the antichrist (singular)Satan . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy in respect to the Son of man seen . It will not be forgiven in respect to the Holy Spirit not seen ,.He lone sits in the unseen place of faith not seen the eternal .Even the Son of man, Jesus refused to stand in that Holy place as master teacher... but gave glory unto the Father unseen and said only God is good.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:22-23

For thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.... reveals the beast .
 
Sep 3, 2018
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#59
I would remind you that, God is the author and John is the writer. John did not add anything to the book of Revelation based on his own understanding, but did as the Lord told him which was:

"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."

The verse above is in fact the key to understand the chronological order of Revelation:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period

What will take place later = All of the events which take place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period

The "what will place later" is initiated in Rev.4:1-2 where the voice that sounds like a trumpet (Jesus) says, "come up here," which is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word church used from that point on, ergo, the church has been removed from the earth. Following that will be the wrath of God which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with the first seal rider on the white horse representing the antichrist.
Good point and thanks for the explanation. I haven't studied the Book of Revelations in earnest, just read over it with glazed eyes decades ago. I'm motivated to put in the effort now.
 
Sep 3, 2018
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#60
Stan Tanon made some remarkable discoveries regarding information encoded in Genesis. Stan appears to be genuine and is aware of the propensity for our minds to find patterns, even where none exist. In one of his videos he talks about how a very brief summary is given at the start and then that is expanded upon with more detail and then expanded upon again and so on.


Posted this because I mentioned the possibility of information being encoded in the Book of Revelations and how that information could be ruined if someone decided to modify the scripture.