Romans 10 REFUTES:TULIP, works salvation, and baptism for salvation
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I believe this is the key to a God inspired interpretation of Romans 10. It gives a beautiful understanding of the holiness and divinity of the God who created us and our world, a divinity we can only rely on and praise. We are to live forever with this, we are to be saved, and this chapter explains this salvation so well.
But we also need what James tells us, that when we accept Christ as our savior, God without sin who took on our sin for us, and we join with Christ we can not also will to sin and be part of Christ who did not sin. All scripture must harmonize, so we also must know that we cannot attain the righteousness of Christ for we are human not gods, but that truth does not affect our need to strive to be like Christ. We must know it is only Christ within us that God sees as our righteousness, our efforts alone are as filthy rags, but that truth does not take away from the truth of our need to accept Christ within us. We must not eliminate any of scripture or say it does not harmonize for all does.
But we also need what James tells us, that when we accept Christ as our savior, God without sin who took on our sin for us, and we join with Christ we can not also will to sin and be part of Christ who did not sin. All scripture must harmonize, so we also must know that we cannot attain the righteousness of Christ for we are human not gods, but that truth does not affect our need to strive to be like Christ. We must know it is only Christ within us that God sees as our righteousness, our efforts alone are as filthy rags, but that truth does not take away from the truth of our need to accept Christ within us. We must not eliminate any of scripture or say it does not harmonize for all does.
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Any action on man's part is works. Accepting, repenting, confessing, believing are all products of being born of the Holy Spirit in the new birth. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man, before he has been born of the Spirit cannot discern the things of the Spirit and thinks they are foolishness. and therefore will not accept, repent, confess or believe anything that is of the Spirit.
I would suggest that Romans 10:2 more than strongly suggests that Paul is talking about unsaved Israelites 
Romans 10 (NIV)
1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Romans 10 (NIV)
1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
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True.
Many errors there in their understanding. Lost sheep = born again, is not true. I think that should be stated here because a new Christian may believe that. It is not true.
Romans 10
13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight. 14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah! 15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.[
Many errors there in their understanding. Lost sheep = born again, is not true. I think that should be stated here because a new Christian may believe that. It is not true.
Romans 10
13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight. 14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah! 15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.[
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IMO, the people that keep saying we are not under the law/ we are under grace/ not by works e.t.c do not understand. I could be wrong but their explanation doesn't make any sense. They themselves are on the fore front keeping the law than others.
For example; Being faithful to your husband/wife is the law. A law that targets the flesh.
Rom 7:1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
So, these people that keep telling us we are not under the law, are they promiscuous or what?
For example; Being faithful to your husband/wife is the law. A law that targets the flesh.
Rom 7:1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
So, these people that keep telling us we are not under the law, are they promiscuous or what?
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I have quoted myself so as to edit an error in the book reference. I had put Romans 10, it was meant to be Romans 2.
I have excerpted more of the Book with this reply.
Hey, at least I linked the original post correctly. There B hope for me yt.
Oops.
9 Yes, he will pay back misery and anguish to every human being who does evil, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile; 10 but glory and honor and shalom to everyone who keeps doing what is good, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who have sinned outside the framework of Torah will die outside the framework of Torah; and all who have sinned within the framework of Torah will be judged by Torah. 13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight. 14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah! 15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.[b]
I have excerpted more of the Book with this reply.
Hey, at least I linked the original post correctly. There B hope for me yt.
Oops.
9 Yes, he will pay back misery and anguish to every human being who does evil, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile; 10 but glory and honor and shalom to everyone who keeps doing what is good, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who have sinned outside the framework of Torah will die outside the framework of Torah; and all who have sinned within the framework of Torah will be judged by Torah. 13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight. 14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah! 15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.[b]
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Believe it or not I've met Christians that insist even the 10 commandments are obsolete. Or portions of it are.
The Book of Colossians chapter 2 tells us the ceremonial laws were done away with, nailed to the cross.
While the Book of Matthew chapter 5 tells us in verses 18 through 19 that the moral law, the ten commandments , are still in effect. These two books are in harmony with their respective messages.
God wouldn't want us to commit adultery, or have other god's before Himself, would He?
The Book of Colossians chapter 2 tells us the ceremonial laws were done away with, nailed to the cross.
While the Book of Matthew chapter 5 tells us in verses 18 through 19 that the moral law, the ten commandments , are still in effect. These two books are in harmony with their respective messages.
God wouldn't want us to commit adultery, or have other god's before Himself, would He?
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I love this thread. Timely given the push for Calvinism and RT now days. Those are in grievous error misrepresenting the truth of God in Christ . And should those with the eyes to see and the intellect to read and choose righteously God's words , proper Exegesis, not Eisegesis, they shall do well For the Gospel is the Good News of God.
While TULIP is the wicked blue print to Hell. That's not hate, so as to deflect the false charges should they think to spring again. That's righteous concern for a souls eternity.
While TULIP is the wicked blue print to Hell. That's not hate, so as to deflect the false charges should they think to spring again. That's righteous concern for a souls eternity.
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I think it is our understanding that fails.
Paul says the law itself is not sinful, it is righteous because it is from God.
Rom 7:12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.
IMO, the word 'law' in certain contexts refers to the covenant. A covenant is the vehicle that carries the law. The covenant has changed but the law remains. The new covenant is better and it brings better understanding. Israel did not understand the old covenant and pursued it by works instead of faith.
Rom 9:31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works.
Paul says the law itself is not sinful, it is righteous because it is from God.
Rom 7:12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.
IMO, the word 'law' in certain contexts refers to the covenant. A covenant is the vehicle that carries the law. The covenant has changed but the law remains. The new covenant is better and it brings better understanding. Israel did not understand the old covenant and pursued it by works instead of faith.
Rom 9:31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works.
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Great post.
Sin, transgression, was not counted before the law.
The Book of Romans chapter 5 verses 12-14 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Sin, transgression, was not counted before the law.
The Book of Romans chapter 5 verses 12-14 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
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but it existed before the law - coming into the world through one man, and death through sin, even though the law didn't come until 430 years after Abraham; death was reigning from Adam to Moses, even over all those who did not sin after the manner of Adam: Adam, who was not deceived, but sinned nonetheless.
((are we disproving ubiquitous depravity here or proving it?))
tho in the past God winked at such ignorance, He now commands men everywhere to repent.
if sin was not counted where there was no law, yet sin was in the world everywhere, and death through sin reigning -- how much worse than death is God's judgement if He no longer overlooks ignorance!
as He said, do not fear those who can merely kill the body
((are we disproving ubiquitous depravity here or proving it?
))tho in the past God winked at such ignorance, He now commands men everywhere to repent.
if sin was not counted where there was no law, yet sin was in the world everywhere, and death through sin reigning -- how much worse than death is God's judgement if He no longer overlooks ignorance!
as He said, do not fear those who can merely kill the body
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If he does not feed us the bread of new sprit life there will be a famine of the hearing of faith. Gotta love the Bread from Heaven sweeter than honey...…...the kind of food the disciples knew not of. The food of faith/believing reckoned as a imputed righteousness. It works in us strengthening us to both will and do his good pleasure as we offer it towards His name. Our one source of eternal faith.
I would offer In order to carry on the name of his "first born". Many parables were used to help us understand the things not seen as matters of faith. Taking twins he sets out to finish the first born doctrine of the elect. . Esau the first born was used to represent no belief in a God not seen . Just as Cain was used. Both witnesses used in representing the last or second Adam as the seed. Christ a quickening unseen spirit.. . . or the first Adam, flesh and blood.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Esua. . meaning eloquent speaker is used to represent the first Adam .
Esau sold his birth rite. . seeing no value in the things of faith not seen . . for a cup of venison soup. Cain seeing no value in the things not seen to prove his unbelief murdered his brother and covered him up . Under the religion of atheism (out of sight out of mind)
Jacob meaning deceiver or heel grabber. He was used to represent unbelief. Those who wrestle against flesh and blood as the temporal things seen in order to create a new name for his bride he renamed her Israel.
Genesis 32:27-29 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
That I would offer helps us understand why God used a Jew from the tribes of Amorites and Hittites. to represent belief/faith Isreal. Or unbelief/no faith as with Jacob. . the one that does wrestle against flesh and blood but does not prevail No power with God as that which does define Israel.
All Israel is not born again Israel as a inward Jew born of the Spirit . Some remain as outward pertaining to the corrupted flesh. under the name of Jacob . They must be born again
I would offer In order to carry on the name of his "first born". Many parables were used to help us understand the things not seen as matters of faith. Taking twins he sets out to finish the first born doctrine of the elect. . Esau the first born was used to represent no belief in a God not seen . Just as Cain was used. Both witnesses used in representing the last or second Adam as the seed. Christ a quickening unseen spirit.. . . or the first Adam, flesh and blood.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Esua. . meaning eloquent speaker is used to represent the first Adam .
Esau sold his birth rite. . seeing no value in the things of faith not seen . . for a cup of venison soup. Cain seeing no value in the things not seen to prove his unbelief murdered his brother and covered him up . Under the religion of atheism (out of sight out of mind)
Jacob meaning deceiver or heel grabber. He was used to represent unbelief. Those who wrestle against flesh and blood as the temporal things seen in order to create a new name for his bride he renamed her Israel.
Genesis 32:27-29 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
That I would offer helps us understand why God used a Jew from the tribes of Amorites and Hittites. to represent belief/faith Isreal. Or unbelief/no faith as with Jacob. . the one that does wrestle against flesh and blood but does not prevail No power with God as that which does define Israel.
All Israel is not born again Israel as a inward Jew born of the Spirit . Some remain as outward pertaining to the corrupted flesh. under the name of Jacob . They must be born again