Sabbath

[KohenMatt]

Galations 3:3
king james version(kjv)

3.)Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

I'm not trying to be perfect. Only Jesus' sacrifice does that. And I've never said otherwise.

The fact of the matter is that you need to live your life in response to that salvation in some way. Hopefully, the desire is to lead as godly a life as possible, and not settle for apathy.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

In my experience, most who go to church believe-in effect, they are saved by grace at the point of conversion, then kept by observing the law

i hope they are talking about the law of the land.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I'm not trying to be perfect. Only Jesus' sacrifice does that. And I've never said otherwise.

The fact of the matter is that you need to live your life in response to that salvation in some way. Hopefully, the desire is to lead as godly a life as possible, and not settle for apathy.

as long as you give GOD all the credit which i hope you do its just that it sounds like you want to help GOD out.

 

[KohenMatt]

as long as you give GOD all the credit which i hope you do its just that it sounds like you want to help GOD out.

Nope. God gets all the credit. I get none. I just want to honor my Savior by doing what He says.

 

[valiant]

If we look at the context here, we see that it is speaking to this...

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Regarding a day when one either eats or doesn't eat is a reference to specific fasts.

But it says nothing about the eating referring to the observance of the day. You are reading that in. The reference to eating and abstaining is looking back to verses 2-3.

YOU DO NOT 'ESTEEM A DAY' BY CHOOSING TO FAST ON IT. You esteem it by setting it aside to the LORD and setting your mind on Him. Are you really suggesting that the man who observes 'every day to the LORD' is fasting EVERY DAY? The Pharisees fasted on certain days. They were esteeming themselves. They were not 'esteeming the day'. That is simply a get out because Paul has made clear that Sabbath observance as such is no longer required. What is required is that one day or every day be esteemed and observed to the LORD, whether Saturday or another day.

The Pharisees fasted on Monday and Thursday, EVERY Monday and EVERY Thursday and just as circumcision (Acts 15), they insisted that it was necessary to be saved.

Yes until around 3.00 pm. But it was not esteeming or observing the day. It was observing a fast. They did not fast the whole day.

Seems Paul had to battle these teachings quite a bit in the early New Testament church. Gnosticism and Asceticism were problems.

Actually Christians began to observe two days of fasting and there is no hint that Paul ever spoke against it. They were not doing it in order to be saved, but as a spiritual exercise. Again they were not 'observing a day', they were observing a fast'

In Col 2:23 John Gill has this note...

There were those who insisted on fastings to show how righteous they were in spite of the instruction Christ gave...

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
Mat 6:18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Paul was correcting the Roman church here for criticizing (judging) members for their fasting practices or lack there of.

Paul was doing nothing of the kind. He was criticising them for attacking vegetarianism and for arguing about observing the Sabbath. You will notice that in the verse in Colossians he is criticising the church for their behaviour. Why then in Romans would he do the opposite if it was talking about fasting?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

But how are we kept?

Sounds like what they keep is
They keep thinking they can be justified by the flesh.

 

[KohenMatt]

Sounds like what they keep is
They keep thinking they can be justified by the flesh.

Who said that, and where did they post it?

Show us.

 

[Biblelogic01]

So you're saying that the commandment repeated the most, that God set apart should not be followed? Even though He said to follow this forever? And when He also said do not add or take away from the Torah? If you're saying this is true then you're saying God changes His mind. Last I checked God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So again why would you say the most repeated and one of the most holy commandments should not be observed?

 

[michael56]

i hope they are talking about the law of the land.

That's an interesting observation. Which of God's laws can you break, that does not incur a penalty according to the law of the land? For me, the most obvious response to that is. Where did Jesus say the Pharisees were corrupted? What example did Paul give of why he had to die to a law of righteousness? The Pharisees, could perfectly keep the legalistic law, Paul himself said he was faultless where those laws were concerned. It was the law relating to the inner man that was the problem. I hope the ''lawkeepers'' consider that law equally as important to keep, as the rest of the law. I am sure they do

 

[michael56]

Exactly. He places them on your mind and heart to do them. And when you break them, He remembers them no more. And so you do it again. It has no bearing on salvation.

I am glad you agree, the Christian has the law written on their mind and placed on their heart by the Holy Spirit at the point of conversion. You accept sin is transgression of the law. Now let us take the ''law'' of observing a Saturday Sabbath.
If that particular law has been placed within a Christian, they MUST have heartfelt conviction they sin if they do not observe it. That is the spiritual reality, I hope you would agree. Therefore, what if a person does not have heartfelt conviction they commit sin by refusing to observe a specific Saturday Sabbath? What does that show us? It either means God has not written that law on their mind and placed it on their heart, or they cannot be saved. It has to mean one or the other.

 

[Apostol2013]

The Sabbath was ordained from creation but continue to speak evil of things you do not understand you only seek your own destruction

 

[Apostol2013]

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Apostol2013]

Original: ἀμαθής

Transliteration: amathēs

Phonetic: am-ath-ace'

Thayer Definition:

unlearned, ignorant
Origin: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G3129

TDNT entry: None

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3129; ignorant: - unlearned.

 

[Apostol2013]

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[michael56]

It is strange, I have never gone to concordances to better understand the bible. I have always trusted, and relied on the Holy Spirit to show me what he wants me to understand from reading scripture. Of course, that does not mean I perfectly understand everything, far from it. But it seems people approach reading scripture differently

 

[michael56]

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

This is very true. Some just ignore much of what Paul wrote as they do not understand it. Others try and twist his plainly written words to fit their own thinking. Romans 14 is a good example of this

 

[kohelet]

Any way this is fruitless Just hear this please what I am about to say you will think I am totally deluded about. But I pray that when you see it come to pass you will remember these words.

Soon a law will begin to travel around the world, At first it will be a simple family day on Sunday but it will not stop there, it will become more until eventually those who still keep the bible Sabbath will be blamed for all the evil that happens on earth. Laws will be passed to take away freedom to keep the true bible Sabbath.

I know you think this is foolishness but remember this on the day it comes to be.

Gotime, would you like to expand on this? You have said in the past how your doctrine is based squarely on Scripture. This is an almost word-for-word quote from a prophecy of Mrs White.

 

[ChristInUs]

why would anyone place a day or walk before the work of God? The first commandment "you shall love the Lord your God and place no other Gods before me" why do we want to put pour works before Him?

 

[john832]

JESUS was 100% man and 100% GOD.The rich young ruler approached the 100% man of JESUS,so then JESUS pointed him back to law.
and when that rich young ruler realizes that he delights in the law of GOD after the inward man(talking about his brain/mind)but he sees another law warring against the law of his mind and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin which is in his flesh he will then realize that he needs help and call on GOD and receive grace through faith.

Nice tale but not what the scripture says. It says he was sorrowful because he had riches and did not want to give them up. What do you think, may have something to do with the tenth Commandment here?

 

[john832]

Tell me why did the LORD in the old testament give 10 commandments to be followed and then in the new testament give two?

The same two He gave in the Old Testament...

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The first four are the details of the first great Command, how to love God by doing what He says. The last six are the details of how to love the second great Command, how to love your neighbor.

its not that his standard changed but IMO they could only purify the flesh and they were more caring about keeping the rules and regulations more than they cared about the person and that is also why they watched to see if JESUS on the sabbath would heal the man with a withered hand.

So what i am saying is the LORD didn't change but mans understanding of the law was incorrect.
The law was not given to gain victory over sin it was to show that we had no hope of meeting the standard that GOD would accept.

What was the Law given for?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

What they did not have was access to the Holy Spirit, they could not live the Law in it's spiritual intent...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The word carnal here...

G4561

σάρξ
sarx
sarx
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).
Total KJV occurrences: 151

Fleshly, they did not have the spiritual discernment or empowerment to obey from the heart.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.