Sabbath

[Jeff_56]

people are so stupid i just can't believe it, still..........

mankind is stupid. that is often expected...... still......

jesus asked his own disciples, "are you being stupid on purpose?" ..... still.....

p.s.
it is better, i think , to be stupid(or thought or called stupid) instead of deceived by the false gospel prevalent on the internet by the world that does what is right in its own eyes instead of obeying yahweh.

 

[john832]

It is legalistic if you are being obedient and you have not been reborn yet.
I'm talking about under the new covenant.

OH, I see, if you are reborn you will be disobedient?

 

[michael56]

OH, I see, if you are reborn you will be disobedient?

No you don't see

 

[john832]

No you don't see

You are right, I don't see how obedience is legalism, especially in light of this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[michael56]

You are right, I don't see how obedience is legalism, especially in light of this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It is best to understand why Paul stated in verse 31 what he did. Not always a good idea to just pluck one verse out without understanding the context
Paul has been stressing the law makes us conscious of our sin(20)
He then goes on to say the Christian has a righteousness apart from observing the law. This means you cannot be condemned for your imperfections concerning the law(which is your sin of course) Paul stresses the Christian is not justified by observing the law. There can be no boasting for they have not earned acceptance by observing the law.
Now what would some of his readers of thought at his words? They would have thought they could ignore the law and live as they like(as some do today when grace is stressed) In order to correct those under such a false assumption, Paul gives them his core message of victory over sin:

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law

Do you tell people sin shall not be their master for they cannot be condemned for their imperfections where the law is concerned? That is the central message.
Paul obviously does not mean the whole law will be upheld, for he did not believe Gentile Christians were asked to observe the whole law did he

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So so if the law is summed up in 1 word; love, HOW do we love? Think about writing a summary of a book. The summary cannot stand on its own. It is summarizing something that is in existence.

And the whole Law had a provision for help and forgiveness in the sacrifices and offerings. And if you don't believe God was pleased with them, ask yourself why He gave them and why he took such pleasure in them in Leviticus 1-5. The reason He became displeased with the sacrifices is because people began doing them with the wrong heart.

1 John 4:10
king james version(kjv)

10.)Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Ephesians 2:10
king james version(kjv)

10.)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 9:13
king james version(kjv)

13.)But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[just-me]

If you want to do that, you have to back up to verse 19 and carry on from there.
Paul has been stressing the law makes us conscious of our sin(20)
He then goes on to say the Christian has a righteousness apart from observing the law. This means you cannot be condemned for your imperfections concerning the law(which is your sin of course) Paul stresses the Christian is not justified by observing the law. There can be no boasting for they have not earned acceptance by observing the law.
Now what would some of his readers of thought at his words? They would have thought they could ignore the law and live as they like(as some do today when grace is stressed) In order to correct those under such a false assumption, Paul gives them his core message of victory over sin:

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law

Do you tell people sin shall not be their master for they cannot be condemned for their imperfections where the law is concerned? That is the central message.
Paul obviously does not mean the whole law will be upheld, for he did not believe Gentile Christians were asked to observe the whole law did he

Nothing can be established when it is not observed or if one pays no attention to it. Observing something is not necessarily preforming it, but it usually leads to working it out for "faith without works is dead." Observing is taking note of what is seen. When the New Testament writers mentioned things referring to the scriptures or saying "as it is written," there were no other scriptures available other than what we know as the Old Testament. What makes me wonder, if we didn't have the written letter of the New Testament, and only heard Paul speaking, as others did 2000 years ago, would we deny the observation of the law and the prophets, or would we see that the writings available prove the gospel? Did they see the Old Testament scriptures as we do today, and make a determination that it is nothing to consider because it seems opposed to the complete gospel in relation to faith and grace? Yes, the gospel was preached and the mystery revealed and yet what most modern day Christians say is that the writings to confirm the gospel are no longer necessary because of the new. That makes little sense to me, for without confirmation, how can one believe?

Acts 17:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

 

[michael56]

Nothing can be established when it is not observed or if one pays no attention to it. Observing something is not necessarily preforming it, but it usually leads to working it out for "faith without works is dead." Observing is taking note of what is seen. When the New Testament writers mentioned things referring to the scriptures or saying "as it is written," there were no other scriptures available other than what we know as the Old Testament. What makes me wonder, if we didn't have the written letter of the New Testament, and only heard Paul speaking, as others did 2000 years ago, would we deny the observation of the law and the prophets, or would we see that the writings available prove the gospel? Did they see the Old Testament scriptures as we do today, and make a determination that it is nothing to consider because it seems opposed to the complete gospel in relation to faith and grace? Yes, the gospel was preached and the mystery revealed and yet what most modern day Christians say is that the writings to confirm the gospel are no longer necessary because of the new. That makes little sense to me, for without confirmation, how can one believe?

Acts 17:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law(or observing the law); rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles [SUP]16 [/SUP]know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[SUP][d][/SUP] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

 

[Biblelogic01]

Let's break down that verse real quick.

The word end translated from the Greek was "telos" which means "From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)"

There is another Greek word for end and that is "synteleia", which means "the conclusion" litterally the end.

So when we look at what Paul is saying, he's not saying Christ ended, the law or is the "end" of the law. He's saying Chirst is the defining point of the Law.

So as followers, if you are a follower if Christ, wouldn't that make you a follower of the defining point of the Law?

 

[michael56]

It's simple

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness

Why? Because he paid the price of our transgression of the law(our sin) at Calvary.

Our righteousness is faith in Christ, not observing the law

 

[just-me]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law(or observing the law); rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles [SUP]16 [/SUP]know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[SUP][d][/SUP] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

Also, through the law we become conscious of how to exact loving our neighbor by observing it's principles. Works without faith is dead also. There is no justification without faith. The law tells the believer not only where we error but also how to live in love. If we truly are God's children we will want to continue in understanding of His words given in what we know as the Old Testament that confirms the New. Through faith we establish the law God forbids that we make it void to ourselves.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If ye fulfil the *royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

As I previously mentioned that the Old Testament was all that was available at the time and here, James is referring to the *scripture which we know as the Old Testament.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[KohenMatt]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law(or observing the law); rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles [SUP]16 [/SUP]know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[SUP][d][/SUP] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

Michael, no one is talking about righteousness or justification through the Law. That's a moot point, brother.

 

[michael56]

Also, through the law we become conscious of how to exact loving our neighbor by observing it's principles. Works without faith is dead also. There is no justification without faith.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If ye fulfil the *royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

As I previously mentioned that the Old Testament was all that was available at the time and here, James is referring to the *scripture which we know as the Old Testament.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

You have it the wrong way round with the emboldened. If you truly love someone you will not have to think of any law, you will automatically be obeying them.

I don't understand some comments I read. When I responded to an altar call and was born again, I was acutely aware of my shortcomings before God. I didn't need to focus on the law, but on Jesus, otherwise I would sink

 

[KohenMatt]

It's simple

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness

Why? Because he paid the price of our transgression of the law(our sin) at Calvary.

Our righteousness is faith in Christ, not observing the law

You're right. Our righteousness is found in nothing else but Jesus' death. Observing the Law doesn't bring that. Most of us Law-keepers know that already.

 

[KohenMatt]

Maybe all of us Law-keepers need to post a disclaimer in our signatures saying: "My obedience to the Law has NOTHING to do with my salvation, justification, righteousness, standing or approval from God, no matter how much anyone thinks that I think that."

 

[michael56]

You're right. Our righteousness is found in nothing else but Jesus' death. Observing the Law doesn't bring that. Most of us Law-keepers know that already.

Scripturally speaking, only when you know your imperfections concerning God's laws cannot condemn you will you sin less.

I think you will find all true Christians desire to be ''law keepers.'' The difference is whether you look to the literal letter of the law and concentrate on trying to obey it, or whether you look to Christ, and trust him to bring you to live an ever holier life, that you instinctively want to live for the law is within you. It got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts and minds

 

[just-me]

You have it the wrong way round with the emboldened. If you truly love someone you will not have to think of any law, you will automatically be obeying them.

I don't understand some comments I read. When I responded to an altar call and was born again, I was acutely aware of my shortcomings before God. I didn't need to focus on the law, but on Jesus, otherwise I would sink

Automatically is not part my religion even though I agree that you are partially correct. Consider this Scripture Paul wrote as you continue in your walk with Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

Romans 8:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A faithful believer will want all of God's Word, not just part of what is available. The law is also important to ward off the adversary as Jesus quoted 3 scripture references to Satan out of Deuteronomy as He was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days and nights.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Philippians 2:5

 

[michael56]

Automatically is not part my religion even though I agree that you are partially correct. Consider this Scripture Paul wrote as you continue in your walk with Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

Romans 8:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A faithful believer will want all of God's Word, not just part of what is available. The law is also important to ward off the adversary as Jesus quoted 3 scripture references to Satan out of Deuteronomy as He was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days and nights.

Absolutely, don't quote romans 8 without first explaining romans 7

 

[Biblelogic01]

You missed my point on that, you're still using the wrong context of the word end.

Let's rephrase the verse using the defintion of telos.

For Christ is the "definite point" of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
or
For Christ is the "goal" of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

This is how the verse is translated, if you use the correct language being used.

 

[KohenMatt]

Scripturally speaking, only when you know your imperfections concerning God's laws cannot condemn you will you sin less.

I think you will find all true Christians desire to be ''law keepers.'' The difference is whether you look to the literal letter of the law and concentrate on trying to obey it, or whether you look to Christ, and trust him to bring you to live an ever holier life, that you instinctively want to live for the law is within you. It got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts and minds

And I agree with much of what you just said. The frustration is that many people assume that since we follow the Law and intentionally study it, that we aren't focusing on Jesus' sacrifice.