Sabbath

[michael56]

And I agree with much of what you just said. The frustration is that many people assume that since we follow the Law and intentionally study it, that we aren't focusing on Jesus' sacrifice.

Why are you studying the law? The law God desires you to keep is already in your heart and on your mind, it is within you.

 

[michael56]

You missed my point on that, you're still using the wrong context of the word end.

Prove scripturally what I wrote is wrong.


Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness

Why? Because he paid the price of our transgression of the law(our sin) at Calvary.

Our righteousness is faith in Christ, not observing the law


I assure you the above is right

 

[KohenMatt]

Why are you studying the law? The law God desires you to keep is already in your heart and on your mind, it is within you.

I study it the same as I do the rest of Scripture.

Why do you study the New Testament? (And I'm assuming you do.)

 

[just-me]

Absolutely, don't quote romans 8 without first explaining romans 7

So chapter 7 Paul uses himself for an example in relation to the law that he says is spiritual holy just and good. So then he says (he is addressing those that know the law as he did verse 1) [SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

So being dead to the law is exactly what Paul is saying about himself even thought in Acts 24 we read that he worshiped believing all things that are written in the law and the prophets. And this also confirms the truth of chapter 8 verses 6 and 7.

As you exhorted me to read chronologically I also exhort you to accept the truth and keep searching the scriptures if they seem to be in contradiction one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[michael56]

I study it the same as I do the rest of Scripture.

Why do you study the New Testament? (And I'm assuming you do.)

I've read the NT about 50 times. What interests me most-due to my youth, is the message of how sin is to be overcome in the believers life. I know how God wants me to live, as all Christians do if the law has been placed within them.

I never tire of reading of the new covenant. It is a great tragedy that very few ministers preach on the core two principlas of it.(Heb 10:16&17) One without the other equals no new covenant

 

[seed_time_harvest]

You are right, I don't see how obedience is legalism, especially in light of this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

That verse in Romans 3:31 is talking about after being reborn .
GOD put love in us and that is on the inside so we establish the law in other words if you love your neighbor you won't steal from him.

 

[michael56]

So chapter 7 Paul uses himself for an example in relation to the law that he says is spiritual holy just and good. So then he says (he is addressing those that know the law as he did verse 1) [SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

So being dead to the law is exactly what Paul is saying about himself even thought in Acts 24 we read that he worshiped believing all things that are written in the law and the prophets. And this also confirms the truth of chapter 8 verses 6 and 7.

As you exhorted me to read chronologically I also exhort you to accept the truth and keep searching the scriptures if they seem to be in contradiction one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Paul stresses in Romans 7 we must die to a law of righteousness. He gives an example from his own life as to why that is, and we die to the whole law in respect of a law of righteousness, including the Ten Commandments as we see from that chapter. Once that is explained it is great to move on to ch8

 

[KohenMatt]

I've read the NT about 50 times. What interests me most-due to my youth, is the message of how sin is to be overcome in the believers life. I know how God wants me to live, as all Christians do if the law has been placed within them.

I never tire of reading of the new covenant. It is a great tragedy that very few ministers preach on the core two principlas of it.(Heb 10:16&17) One without the other equals no new covenant

That's good.

I study both equally. Just because I talk about the Law here so much doesn't mean that it's all I study.

 

[Biblelogic01]

I used a strong's concordance, which translates english in to greek (because that's what Paul spoke and wrote in at the time). And if you look at the Greek tanslation of end, it is the word "telos" like I said in my previous statement before hand. That is the translation and that is what was said. You can't change the definition of the word that is used. When studying scripture there is more than what just appears in the verse. We have to remember, we're reading English text that was translated from Greek. The Greek language is completely different from the English language. So again when studying there's more than just reading it. This is something that is rarely taught in churches.

Now following/studying the Law does not make one man better than the other, nor is it wrong. My salvation is through Yeshua the Messiah and His blood when He died on at the stake. I'm not trying to justify anything or enforce changes. I'm just stating what the scriptures state.

 

[just-me]

Paul stresses in Romans 7 we must die to a law of righteousness. He gives an example from his own life as to why that is, and we die to the whole law in respect of a law of righteousness, including the Ten Commandments as we see from that chapter. Once that is explained it is great to move on to ch8

Then do you really believe that to die to a law of righteousness means to totally reject the law of righteousness by not studying it, even though it is spiritual, holy, just, and good? That's confusing to me to say the least. Now that you have explained chapter 7 for me (thanks) go on to explain chapter 8.

 

[valiant]

That verse in Romans 3:31 is talking about after being reborn .
GOD put love in us and that is on the inside so we establish the law in other words if you love your neighbor you won't steal from him.

Actually we establish the Law by being condemned by and receiving the free gift of justification. By our being saved through the death of Jesus Christ on our behalf, as He accepted the full consequences of every breaking of the Law, the Law is upheld as never before. The whole Law has been vindicated.

 

[michael56]

I used a strong's concordance, which translates english in to greek (because that's what Paul spoke and wrote in at the time). And if you look at the Greek tanslation of end, it is the word "telos" like I said in my previous statement before hand. That is the translation and that is what was said. You can't change the definition of the word that is used. When studying scripture there is more than what just appears in the verse. We have to remember, we're reading English text that was translated from Greek. The Greek language is completely different from the English language. So again when studying there's more than just reading it. This is something that is rarely taught in churches.

Now following/studying the Law does not make one man better than the other, nor is it wrong. My salvation is through Yeshua the Messiah and His blood when He died on at the stake. I'm not trying to justify anything or enforce changes. I'm just stating what the scriptures state.

Absolutely, there is more than just reading it. We have to rely on the Holy Spirit to exlain the message to us, it is not enough just to read the literal letter.

Was a persons righteousness under the old covenant considered to be obedience to the law? (Deut 6:25)
Is a persons righteousness under the new covenant considered to be faith in Christ(Phil3:9) Rom 3:21&22 Gal2:21

If so, what word would you use to describe Christ's death at Calvary ceasing a law of righteousness?
End seems pretty good to me. But I am by no means a scholar or theologian and admit to not knowing the Greek

 

[Jeff_56]

OH, I see, if you are reborn you will be disobedient?

"if" ? not waiting, see - already they are practicing.....

 

[valiant]

Then do you really believe that to die to a law of righteousness means to totally reject the law of righteousness by not studying it, even though it is spiritual, holy, just, and good? That's confusing to me to say the least.

No, but it does mean that the law of righteousness can no longer point a finger at us.

we read it not in order to observe it, but in order to fully appreciate the character of God. For our aim is not to obey the Law but to be pleasing to Him

 

[michael56]

Then do you really believe that to die to a law of righteousness means to totally reject the law of righteousness by not studying it, even though it is spiritual, holy, just, and good? That's confusing to me to say the least. Now that you have explained chapter 7 for me (thanks) go on to explain chapter 8.

Of course you must reject a law of righteousness, otherwise sin will remain your master.

Chapter 8 is simple to explain-once you understand ch7

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law(a law of righteousness) but under grace(through faith in Christ) Rom 6:14

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Actually we establish the Law by being condemned by and receiving the free gift of justification. By our being saved through the death of Jesus Christ on our behalf, as He accepted the full consequences of every breaking of the Law, the Law is upheld as never before. The whole Law has been vindicated.

I think what I said is simple and easily understood.

 

[valiant]

I used a strong's concordance, which translates english in to greek (because that's what Paul spoke and wrote in at the time). And if you look at the Greek tanslation of end, it is the word "telos" like I said in my previous statement before hand. That is the translation and that is what was said. You can't change the definition of the word that is used. When studying scripture there is more than what just appears in the verse. We have to remember, we're reading English text that was translated from Greek. The Greek language is completely different from the English language. So again when studying there's more than just reading it. This is something that is rarely taught in churches.

Now following/studying the Law does not make one man better than the other, nor is it wrong. My salvation is through Yeshua the Messiah and His blood when He died on at the stake. I'm not trying to justify anything or enforce changes. I'm just stating what the scriptures state.

but telos has two definitions. One meaning 'end' as in finish. and one meaning 'end' as in 'aim towards an end'.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

people are so stupid i just can't believe it, still..........

mankind is stupid. that is often expected...... still......

jesus asked his own disciples, "are you being stupid on purpose?" ..... still.....

p.s.
it is better, i think , to be stupid(or thought or called stupid) instead of deceived by the false gospel prevalent on the internet by the world that does what is right in its own eyes instead of obeying yahweh.

You ever hear the saying that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones?....... Your babbling of utter nonsense and pure hatred towards others here is obvious to everyone here at cc......Jeff you are the weakest link!.......

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

The 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic laws do not apply under the new covenant !!!

This i agree with Ken, thanks for pointing that out

 

[just-me]

No, but it does mean that the law of righteousness can no longer point a finger at us.

we read it not in order to observe it, but in order to fully appreciate the character of God. For our aim is not to obey the Law but to be pleasing to Him

I think we agree that the law can point out our need for Christ as Paul mentioned to the Galatians, but I think where we might not agree in our beliefs is that the law can also be beneficial after we are born again for correction, and instructions in righteousness, both the old and new together confirming this, for there is only one unchanging God and Lord. Malachi and Hebrews. Would you not agree that our Savior gave the law to Israel via Moses? Colossians chapter 1