-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sure because the saints Keep the Commandments of God and have the Testimony of the Messiah..
Well, the Messiah said we should cut off our right hand if it causes us to offend.. it is better than our whole body being cast in to hell..
The Gospel is good news for those that repent and believe. When the Word be mixed with Faith it profits.
Faith that worketh by love.
nullified... you do not know what you share.... so may you be forgiven in your ignorance.
James 2
1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Dear Nehemiah,
You may need to read your bible. You reject God's Word to hold on to your own traditions. Sunday worship is a tradition of man over the commandments of God. Closing your eyes to all the scriptures sent to you already to hold on to your own tradition over the Word of God is between you and God. I do not judge you. Jesus says he that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. (John 12:48-50; Matt 15:3;7-9)
May God bless you
You may need to read your bible. You reject God's Word to hold on to your own traditions. Sunday worship is a tradition of man over the commandments of God. Closing your eyes to all the scriptures sent to you already to hold on to your own tradition over the Word of God is between you and God. I do not judge you. Jesus says he that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. (John 12:48-50; Matt 15:3;7-9)
May God bless you
Last edited:
Dear Bogadile,
So nice to see you again. Hope you are well? It may be well to consider revising your post above. God's Law is indeed our schoolmaster.
Gal 3:24-25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
These are wonderful scriptures. It shows the place of God's Law in the New Covenant. It is the same role that God's Law had in the Old Covenant and that is to show us who we really are sinners in need of a Saviour. God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rage (Isa 64:6). To be "under the Law" means to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner in need of a Savior (Rom 3:19; Rom 6:14)
The Gospel is EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It is not cherry picking some of God's Word over others. The Gospel means "Good News" The Word of God is good news. The Word is Jesus (John 1:1-3) Therefore Jesus is the Word of God that we are to live by and Jesus is the Good News Gospel. The gospel was preached in the Old Testament and the New and after the baptism of Jesus before his death (Rom 10:16; Gal 3:8; Heb 4:2; Matt 4:23). God's Word is the Gospel and we need to live by Every Word of it (Matt 4:4).
What is the Counterfeit Gospel ? (Linked)
It is only by God's Law that anyone can find Jesus. You try and do away with it you do away with the Gospel because people do not know what sin is and will not find Jesus.
God bless you
So nice to see you again. Hope you are well? It may be well to consider revising your post above. God's Law is indeed our schoolmaster.
Gal 3:24-25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
These are wonderful scriptures. It shows the place of God's Law in the New Covenant. It is the same role that God's Law had in the Old Covenant and that is to show us who we really are sinners in need of a Saviour. God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rage (Isa 64:6). To be "under the Law" means to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner in need of a Savior (Rom 3:19; Rom 6:14)
The Gospel is EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It is not cherry picking some of God's Word over others. The Gospel means "Good News" The Word of God is good news. The Word is Jesus (John 1:1-3) Therefore Jesus is the Word of God that we are to live by and Jesus is the Good News Gospel. The gospel was preached in the Old Testament and the New and after the baptism of Jesus before his death (Rom 10:16; Gal 3:8; Heb 4:2; Matt 4:23). God's Word is the Gospel and we need to live by Every Word of it (Matt 4:4).
What is the Counterfeit Gospel ? (Linked)
It is only by God's Law that anyone can find Jesus. You try and do away with it you do away with the Gospel because people do not know what sin is and will not find Jesus.
God bless you
Dear Grandpa,
The scriptures are wonderful but the application of them is misleading. No one here is trying to work at the Law. No one is teaching you or others to do so. We are saved by our faith through grace and not of ourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Now if no one is saying then what are you talking about? If no one is saying what your saying then you have no argument right?
If you spent more time listening to what people are saying you would not be so confused in your posting. Love is the fulfilling of the Law. It is Christ in you that is the hope of Glory. If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments not because you can but because God can through you. This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" This is the New Covenant which is salvation by faith in God's Word. God's Word is life and we are to live by every Word of it.
God bless
The scriptures are wonderful but the application of them is misleading. No one here is trying to work at the Law. No one is teaching you or others to do so. We are saved by our faith through grace and not of ourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Now if no one is saying then what are you talking about? If no one is saying what your saying then you have no argument right?
If you spent more time listening to what people are saying you would not be so confused in your posting. Love is the fulfilling of the Law. It is Christ in you that is the hope of Glory. If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments not because you can but because God can through you. This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" This is the New Covenant which is salvation by faith in God's Word. God's Word is life and we are to live by every Word of it.
God bless
Dear Grace777,
Your time would be better spent in meaningful dialogue sharing the Word of God rather than cutting and pasting the same old teachings that have no basis in God's Word. We cannot cherry pick scriptures to hold on to our traditions that confilct with God's Word. We are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). If we do not then we are not a "Believer" in the Word of God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23)
Your time would be better spent in meaningful dialogue sharing the Word of God rather than cutting and pasting the same old teachings that have no basis in God's Word. We cannot cherry pick scriptures to hold on to our traditions that confilct with God's Word. We are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). If we do not then we are not a "Believer" in the Word of God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23)
It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.
Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.
When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."
Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.
The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased". Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil. Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )
God in the Old testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself is the "now" word.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.
They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.
These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.
They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.
When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."
Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.
The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased". Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil. Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )
God in the Old testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself is the "now" word.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.
They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.
These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.
They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Dear Grace777,
Serious? more cut and paste of the same old things that you have already pasted? So by using your cut and paste again are you trying to say God's Word (Matt 4:4) is for the devil and not for us and we are not to live by Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?
Then how do you read the scriptures.. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak and I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak (John 12:48-50)?
A sign of an "unbeliever" is one who does not believe God's Word and does everything they can to hide from it in order not to follow it.
John 3:19-21,
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
God bless
Serious? more cut and paste of the same old things that you have already pasted? So by using your cut and paste again are you trying to say God's Word (Matt 4:4) is for the devil and not for us and we are not to live by Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?
Then how do you read the scriptures.. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak and I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak (John 12:48-50)?
A sign of an "unbeliever" is one who does not believe God's Word and does everything they can to hide from it in order not to follow it.
John 3:19-21,
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
God bless
Last edited:
Had Jesus arisen on the sabbath of that week, He could not have fulfilled His own prophecy that He would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
Assuming that Christ died on Wednesday and was buried at sundown (Thursday), three days and three nights would take us to the end of the sabbath (Saturday), AFTER which He rose on the first day of the week.
Wed 6 pm to Thur 6 pm = Day 1
Thur 6 pm to Fri 6 pm = Day 2
Fri 6 pm to Sat 6 pm = Day 3
Any time between 6 pm on Saturday to 6 pm on Sunday would be the first day of the week. However, since the tomb was already vacant very early in the morning, Christ arose possibly after midnight on Sunday morning.
And constant harping on "Sunday" deflects from Bible truth. If you want to be honest, call it the Lord's Day, since that is what the apostle John called it, and what Christians have called it ever since. And that would put a big dent in your beliefs.
Assuming that Christ died on Wednesday and was buried at sundown (Thursday), three days and three nights would take us to the end of the sabbath (Saturday), AFTER which He rose on the first day of the week.
Wed 6 pm to Thur 6 pm = Day 1
Thur 6 pm to Fri 6 pm = Day 2
Fri 6 pm to Sat 6 pm = Day 3
Any time between 6 pm on Saturday to 6 pm on Sunday would be the first day of the week. However, since the tomb was already vacant very early in the morning, Christ arose possibly after midnight on Sunday morning.
And constant harping on "Sunday" deflects from Bible truth. If you want to be honest, call it the Lord's Day, since that is what the apostle John called it, and what Christians have called it ever since. And that would put a big dent in your beliefs.
Dear Nehemiah,
We must follow the Word of God over the teaching's of man. Jesus rested on the Sabbath (in the tomb) according to the commandment. Jesus says he made the Sabbath for mankind and that he is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28). The "Lord's Day" Is the Sabbath day. God asks us to keep it because it is a memorial of the creation week made on the 7th day (Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11). It is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation, Jesus. (Eze 20:20). Sunday is a man made tradition over the commandments of God and has no basis in the Word of God (Matt 15:3; 7-9). Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) We follow Jesus because we love him because he first loved us (1John 4:19).
May God bless you
We must follow the Word of God over the teaching's of man. Jesus rested on the Sabbath (in the tomb) according to the commandment. Jesus says he made the Sabbath for mankind and that he is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28). The "Lord's Day" Is the Sabbath day. God asks us to keep it because it is a memorial of the creation week made on the 7th day (Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11). It is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation, Jesus. (Eze 20:20). Sunday is a man made tradition over the commandments of God and has no basis in the Word of God (Matt 15:3; 7-9). Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) We follow Jesus because we love him because he first loved us (1John 4:19).
May God bless you
Last edited:
His posts have been shown over and over again to be refuted with exactly what the true Sabbath is and it's the Lord Jesus Christ.
He refuses to acknowledge these and therfore we are ignoring his same old scriptures taken out of the context of Christ's work on the cross. To continue to post the same thing with him is useless.
People are free to observe one day as they like just like Paul says but when one says:
"We must observe the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way. If we don't - we are sinning and dis-obeying God. This is a Judaizing spirit which has been shown over and over again.
We post this to warn new viewers of this thread to run from this type of perversion of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
To continue to interact with this nonsense is a waste of time. The saints have been warned and the Holy Spirit will keep them from this Judaizing spirit's deception. He himself may be a Christian but this deception that people worshipping the Lord on sunday is a mark of the beast is devilish to say the least.
Last edited:
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man(Jews,Gentiles), so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man(Jews,Gentiles), so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
L
Did you know there is no evening to the Sabbath day of creation? there are evenings for all the other 6 days but not on the Sabbath. that is because the evening of that day is eternal. it foretells Christ as the true sabbath in whom God rest. of Heb. 4:1-13. For if we are born again in Christ we are in his Sabbath. know you not that your body is the temple of the Lord?
Well said. We are "in Christ". We are the temple of God now in our new creation in Christ. What does this mean in relation to the Sabbath as in the Old Testament and how do Christians NOT break the Sabbath because they are in Christ?
Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?
Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.
This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?
Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.
Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law.
Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?
Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.
This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?
Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.
Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law.
Hi MattforJesus,
So nice to see you here. Some scripture for you to consider. I believe in deed that line should be upon line and precept upon precept and we must rightly be dividing the Word of truth. You may have miss this so I will post this for you to consider. The Greek Word "Ordinance" in Col 2:14 is Dogma. It means civil ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. It is referring to the laws of Moses not God's Law.
Col 2:14-17,
[SUP]14[/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15[/SUP], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [SUP]16[/SUP] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): [SUP]17[/SUP], which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Omit “the”not used in the Greek; Sabbath days is plural; Sabbaton meaning cease from secular work; rest)
Scripture points:
· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)
The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.
So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.
Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural).[SUP] 17[/SUP] which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.
The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).
The Greek word for sabbath used G4521; σάββατο; sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest.
Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)
So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)
Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses that referred to the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Num 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.
Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17; Line upon Line Precept upon Precept:
Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.
2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.
Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.
It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton meaning to cease from secular work; rest.
The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)
High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).
All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)
So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days in Lev 23 were were none work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work.
Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses in the annual ceremonial Feast days of Lev 23; Deut and Numbers that all pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the Cross including the annual new moon feast Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week.
Line upon line and Precept upon precept.....
God bless you
So nice to see you here. Some scripture for you to consider. I believe in deed that line should be upon line and precept upon precept and we must rightly be dividing the Word of truth. You may have miss this so I will post this for you to consider. The Greek Word "Ordinance" in Col 2:14 is Dogma. It means civil ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. It is referring to the laws of Moses not God's Law.
Col 2:14-17,
[SUP]14[/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15[/SUP], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [SUP]16[/SUP] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): [SUP]17[/SUP], which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Omit “the”not used in the Greek; Sabbath days is plural; Sabbaton meaning cease from secular work; rest)
Scripture points:
· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)
The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.
So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.
Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural).[SUP] 17[/SUP] which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.
The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).
The Greek word for sabbath used G4521; σάββατο; sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest.
Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)
So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)
Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses that referred to the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Num 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.
Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17; Line upon Line Precept upon Precept:
Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.
2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.
Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.
It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton meaning to cease from secular work; rest.
The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)
High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).
All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)
So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days in Lev 23 were were none work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work.
Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses in the annual ceremonial Feast days of Lev 23; Deut and Numbers that all pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the Cross including the annual new moon feast Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week.
Line upon line and Precept upon precept.....
God bless you
Last edited: