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It was Messiah who walked in the Garden with Adam in the cool of the night! Why would He need to change it when He already sanctified it?
"You have heard of Abraham? Before he was I exist."
(A carpenters son who lives now.)
Wanna go their? We are only under grace hug. Grace aka Favor is not dispensed on the ungodly after the flood of Noah again until Messiah according to your teaching. I don't really have a problem with that, but under grace ONLY. .. Their are a multitude of countless powers that are still in the presence of the Almighty Holy One in Heaven with directives and orders to follow, yet they all follow their courses in sync with each other and Elohim who dispenses mercy on all flesh today still because of the perfect and sinless Lamb of Elohim. Their is coming a day when that will too pass. Judgment is Coming and the Full Truth is the Full armor of Elohim. If you Put on the helmet of salvation your mind has been transformed by the Word In Messiah. How was your mind transformed if you strive to nullify the commands or even just part of one? By what Spirit does one move if they try to be obediently submissive to the Commands, humbly fighting against sin daily?
Given that both claim to be following the Messiah of Elohim of The Scriptures.
Lol yes or no....
Ask me a fair yes or no question dude
"You have heard of Abraham? Before he was I exist."
(A carpenters son who lives now.)
Wanna go their? We are only under grace hug. Grace aka Favor is not dispensed on the ungodly after the flood of Noah again until Messiah according to your teaching. I don't really have a problem with that, but under grace ONLY. .. Their are a multitude of countless powers that are still in the presence of the Almighty Holy One in Heaven with directives and orders to follow, yet they all follow their courses in sync with each other and Elohim who dispenses mercy on all flesh today still because of the perfect and sinless Lamb of Elohim. Their is coming a day when that will too pass. Judgment is Coming and the Full Truth is the Full armor of Elohim. If you Put on the helmet of salvation your mind has been transformed by the Word In Messiah. How was your mind transformed if you strive to nullify the commands or even just part of one? By what Spirit does one move if they try to be obediently submissive to the Commands, humbly fighting against sin daily?
Given that both claim to be following the Messiah of Elohim of The Scriptures.
Lol yes or no....
Ask me a fair yes or no question dude
Those who profess to do the best they can in obeying the law ( His commandments ) in love for God are not resting in Him in His love for them that He will help them to follow Him by the grace of God and faith in Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd.
You can lean on Christ Jesus to discern by their words, if those who are doing the best they can, will turn around and condemn believers for not doing or "failing" what they are "still trying " to do... like keeping the sabbath day.
It is when they judge others as not a christian or not saved or some subtle point inferring that, is when and why those who oppose the sabbath day keepers speaks out as exposing them as saying that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough to be saved by.
Sabbath day keepers knows they will get in trouble for judging any believer in here as not being a christian or not saved, but their insistence on keeping the sabbath day for justification is saying the same thing whether they realize this or not.
Sabbath day keepers are saved BUT they do not have to keep the sabbath day for justification. They can esteem the day as unto the Lord, but not to do that for justification because they are the Lord's just as those who do not keep the sabbath day are the Lord's.
You can lean on Christ Jesus to discern by their words, if those who are doing the best they can, will turn around and condemn believers for not doing or "failing" what they are "still trying " to do... like keeping the sabbath day.
It is when they judge others as not a christian or not saved or some subtle point inferring that, is when and why those who oppose the sabbath day keepers speaks out as exposing them as saying that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough to be saved by.
Sabbath day keepers knows they will get in trouble for judging any believer in here as not being a christian or not saved, but their insistence on keeping the sabbath day for justification is saying the same thing whether they realize this or not.
Sabbath day keepers are saved BUT they do not have to keep the sabbath day for justification. They can esteem the day as unto the Lord, but not to do that for justification because they are the Lord's just as those who do not keep the sabbath day are the Lord's.
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I will post again what I have said many times in the past just so that there is no mistaking of what is really being said.
If we think that keeping the Sabbath means what we do or don't do one a certain day - whether Saturday or Sunday - we have missed Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath. The Old Testament view of the Sabbath is a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.
I encourage all of us to look into the New Covenant and we will begin to experience the true Sabbath rest that the Old Testament alludes to - and it is Christ Himself.
I do not look at all Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers as outlined in the Old testament adherents as all the same.
As I have said before - there are many that are of authentic Jewish descent and they like their traditions but they do not say that others need to observe the Sabbath or feasts as in the law of Moses or you are dis-obeying God and sinning.
They observe these things to see Christ as the fulfillment of them - not as something they "need" to do now.
This group has excellent teachings on how Christ has fulfilled the Law and show Christ in every part of the Old Testament. Jesus said that all the scriptures speak about Him.
This group of believers are a major blessing to us in the body of Christ and are not Judaizers such as Paul encountered and that are also in the extreme sects of Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers as in the Old Testament way that say believers in Christ must "observe the Sabbath and the feasts like in the law of Moses - or they are dis-obeying God and sinning".
Those - run away from as fast as you can as it is a distortion of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection!
But do not put all Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers people in the same boat as the extreme sects because they are not the same.
If we think that keeping the Sabbath means what we do or don't do one a certain day - whether Saturday or Sunday - we have missed Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath. The Old Testament view of the Sabbath is a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.
I encourage all of us to look into the New Covenant and we will begin to experience the true Sabbath rest that the Old Testament alludes to - and it is Christ Himself.
I do not look at all Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers as outlined in the Old testament adherents as all the same.
As I have said before - there are many that are of authentic Jewish descent and they like their traditions but they do not say that others need to observe the Sabbath or feasts as in the law of Moses or you are dis-obeying God and sinning.
They observe these things to see Christ as the fulfillment of them - not as something they "need" to do now.
This group has excellent teachings on how Christ has fulfilled the Law and show Christ in every part of the Old Testament. Jesus said that all the scriptures speak about Him.
This group of believers are a major blessing to us in the body of Christ and are not Judaizers such as Paul encountered and that are also in the extreme sects of Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers as in the Old Testament way that say believers in Christ must "observe the Sabbath and the feasts like in the law of Moses - or they are dis-obeying God and sinning".
Those - run away from as fast as you can as it is a distortion of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection!
But do not put all Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers people in the same boat as the extreme sects because they are not the same.
I like to categorize. I was reminded of what I would consider one of the, I will or will I doctrines of God. Reminds me of the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we first believed. Every time he uses will I or I will its like renewing his propmise in the verse below.
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Eze 36:25
It will be fine for anyone who has been given a new spirit and new heart. They will be raised to newness of life in a promised incorruptible body. Those who are not given a new spirit that could never die will not arise. There would be nothing to arise to or with.
If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God then neither do they belong to Him.
.
Amen
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Eze 36:25
It will be fine for anyone who has been given a new spirit and new heart. They will be raised to newness of life in a promised incorruptible body. Those who are not given a new spirit that could never die will not arise. There would be nothing to arise to or with.
If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God then neither do they belong to Him.
.
Amen
Thank you, amen. I have always believe it is the Holy Spirit Who will raise us up to Jesus in the clouds, though it is told He will send His Angles to gather first those who sleep andthen those who are qick.
It gives me even more faith to hear this from you, ok, Ezekiel through you. All blessings in Yeshua...
It gives me even more faith to hear this from you, ok, Ezekiel through you. All blessings in Yeshua...
Defining laws does not make them without effect.
The word rest is not a time sensitive word at all, not even a moment of the twinkling of the eye. It can be applied to any time period to include the new era of Sabbaths to represent the new creation as one of the many Sabbaths. Any time a person hears the voice of God that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness we have entered His rest. We are not to judge one another in retrospect to ceremonial law, They are laws that were as shadows used to preach the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed. The time of reformation has come. The shadows disappeared. Worshipping shadows and not the substance only show some turn things upside down. We simply do not know the rest we have in Christ after and rudiment of this world after the traditions of men
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:8-17
The word rest is not a time sensitive word at all, not even a moment of the twinkling of the eye. It can be applied to any time period to include the new era of Sabbaths to represent the new creation as one of the many Sabbaths. Any time a person hears the voice of God that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness we have entered His rest. We are not to judge one another in retrospect to ceremonial law, They are laws that were as shadows used to preach the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed. The time of reformation has come. The shadows disappeared. Worshipping shadows and not the substance only show some turn things upside down. We simply do not know the rest we have in Christ after and rudiment of this world after the traditions of men
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:8-17
if I understand the Sabbath-observers right,
we are not saved by observing the Sabbath.
but, if we don't observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament, we are sinning and dis-obeying God.
and a person who remains in sin and disobedience can't be saved.
***********
(begin my thoughts here)
following out the above,
we must
observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament
in order to avoid being unsaved.
thus, it is a salvation issue,
regardless of what Sabbath-folks say.
unless I missed something.
we are not saved by observing the Sabbath.
but, if we don't observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament, we are sinning and dis-obeying God.
and a person who remains in sin and disobedience can't be saved.
***********
(begin my thoughts here)
following out the above,
we must
observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament
in order to avoid being unsaved.
thus, it is a salvation issue,
regardless of what Sabbath-folks say.
unless I missed something.
I agree 100%.
- that is the outcome of those that say we must observe the Sabbath as in the Old Testament way or we are sinning and dis-obeying God.
It's an anti-Christ/ Judaizing belief system for sure as it denies the very gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
In saying that - Christians are free in Christ to observe any day or feast, to eat meats or drink as they choose. As I have said repeatedly - those that know the difference can show us how the shadow of the Sabbath that is in the Old Testament can be used to "see Christ now".
I would love to hear how they see Christ in the Sabbath of the Old Testament. We can all learn from this truth.
- that is the outcome of those that say we must observe the Sabbath as in the Old Testament way or we are sinning and dis-obeying God.
It's an anti-Christ/ Judaizing belief system for sure as it denies the very gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
In saying that - Christians are free in Christ to observe any day or feast, to eat meats or drink as they choose. As I have said repeatedly - those that know the difference can show us how the shadow of the Sabbath that is in the Old Testament can be used to "see Christ now".
I would love to hear how they see Christ in the Sabbath of the Old Testament. We can all learn from this truth.
Grace,
I know experts regarding Jesus in the Old Testament so I know I'm not one.
But didn't Jesus MAKE everything? All things, as per John 1.
Without Jesus was nothing made.
So I guess Jesus is the one needing the rest on the 7th day. The Sabbath.
And Dan has it right. He's saying the same as what I said.
OF COURSE, the reason they post is because they'd like us to be saved.
For the same reason you post about grace and I post about the dangers of believing in eternal security.
Know what's great?
And I love to repeat this.
JESUS is going to save us.
BUT, if someone falls away, He won't be able to...
As far as what you're writing, aren't you saying that we could then break ANY commandment CONTINUOULSY, and still be saved?
It sounds like that.
Is it OK to sin willfully, deliverately, Always, continuously, etc.... ?
I know experts regarding Jesus in the Old Testament so I know I'm not one.
But didn't Jesus MAKE everything? All things, as per John 1.
Without Jesus was nothing made.
So I guess Jesus is the one needing the rest on the 7th day. The Sabbath.
And Dan has it right. He's saying the same as what I said.
OF COURSE, the reason they post is because they'd like us to be saved.
For the same reason you post about grace and I post about the dangers of believing in eternal security.
Know what's great?
And I love to repeat this.
JESUS is going to save us.
BUT, if someone falls away, He won't be able to...
As far as what you're writing, aren't you saying that we could then break ANY commandment CONTINUOULSY, and still be saved?
It sounds like that.
Is it OK to sin willfully, deliverately, Always, continuously, etc.... ?
Hi FranC, and all,
I have been away for a bit. Just popping in to say hi to everyone (missed you all
) FranC you know what I like about you and many here? You study God's Word for yourself seeking Jesus in prayer. You seek Jesus through His Word. You love to share God's Word with others to help them. What a blessing to me to see people like this it makes me feel so happy to see those that Love God's Word and follow Jesus because they Love Him. Thank you sister FranC and others you have all been a blessing to me. I can see God's Love in you and that is a wonderful blessing indeed even if I cannot be here as much as I would like.
God bless you all
I have been away for a bit. Just popping in to say hi to everyone (missed you all
) FranC you know what I like about you and many here? You study God's Word for yourself seeking Jesus in prayer. You seek Jesus through His Word. You love to share God's Word with others to help them. What a blessing to me to see people like this it makes me feel so happy to see those that Love God's Word and follow Jesus because they Love Him. Thank you sister FranC and others you have all been a blessing to me. I can see God's Love in you and that is a wonderful blessing indeed even if I cannot be here as much as I would like. God bless you all
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They basically show the born again believers that righteousness doesn't come by their work and understanding of the law.
It shows that anybody who desires to continue to work at the law in their own understanding they will be under the curse. Christ has become of no effect to people who work at the law.
Why? How? Because Christ working in us is what gives us rest from our work at the law to begin with.
Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
You won't really understand the scriptures until you come to Christ and receive Rest.
Romans 8:1-2
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is explained over and over in different ways in each epistle. [/FONT]
It shows that anybody who desires to continue to work at the law in their own understanding they will be under the curse. Christ has become of no effect to people who work at the law.
Why? How? Because Christ working in us is what gives us rest from our work at the law to begin with.
Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
You won't really understand the scriptures until you come to Christ and receive Rest.
Romans 8:1-2
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is explained over and over in different ways in each epistle. [/FONT]
Hi FranC, and all,
I have been away for a bit. Just popping in to say hi to everyone (missed you all) FranC you know what I like about you and many here? You study God's Word for yourself seeking Jesus in prayer. You seek Jesus through His Word. You love to share God's Word with others to help them. What a blessing to me to see people like this it makes me feel so happy to see those that Love God's Word and follow Jesus because they Love Him. Thank you sister FranC and others you have all been a blessing to me. I can see God's Love in you and that is a wonderful blessing indeed even if I cannot be here as much as I would like.
God bless you all
I have been away for a bit. Just popping in to say hi to everyone (missed you all
) FranC you know what I like about you and many here? You study God's Word for yourself seeking Jesus in prayer. You seek Jesus through His Word. You love to share God's Word with others to help them. What a blessing to me to see people like this it makes me feel so happy to see those that Love God's Word and follow Jesus because they Love Him. Thank you sister FranC and others you have all been a blessing to me. I can see God's Love in you and that is a wonderful blessing indeed even if I cannot be here as much as I would like. God bless you all
Hope all is good.
You've said some very nice things.
Puts a lot of pressure on me....!!!
Let's put it this way:
90% of the time I'm very spiritual.
10% of the time, I'm a lot of trouble.
But good trouble !!
WELCOME BACK!
I don't understand very well.
1. If they're born again believers, what is this work all about? Do born again believers not "work"?
2. I'm not supposed to understand about the Law? Then why did God give it? Is it abolished? Jesus said it's not abolished.
3. I'm "under the curse" because I work for God?
BTW... there is no curse provision in the New Covenant.
4. Christ is working in us? So what is the Holy Spirit for?
5. If Christ is working in us and we sin, does that mean Christ didn't work well enough in us?
I do love Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Law of sin and Death is before Jesus freed us from satan's power over our lives.
And there is no condemnation for those who walk after the spirit and not after the flesh.
Hebrews 7:18-19
The New Covenant is indeed a better covenant.
The Mosaic Covenant could not be kept.
The New Covenant can be kept with the help of the Holy Spirit.
1. If they're born again believers, what is this work all about? Do born again believers not "work"?
2. I'm not supposed to understand about the Law? Then why did God give it? Is it abolished? Jesus said it's not abolished.
3. I'm "under the curse" because I work for God?
BTW... there is no curse provision in the New Covenant.
4. Christ is working in us? So what is the Holy Spirit for?
5. If Christ is working in us and we sin, does that mean Christ didn't work well enough in us?
I do love Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Law of sin and Death is before Jesus freed us from satan's power over our lives.
And there is no condemnation for those who walk after the spirit and not after the flesh.
Hebrews 7:18-19
The New Covenant is indeed a better covenant.
The Mosaic Covenant could not be kept.
The New Covenant can be kept with the help of the Holy Spirit.
As outlined in the Old Testament the Sabbath came with condemnation for the people who disobey. Under Messiah the renewed Sabbath days are still a shadow of what is promised. Sabbath is renewed for mankind to find rest in as well as the renewal of the soul. To say a Sabbath observer is trying to keep the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Testament is error. We keep it in light of the original plan in Gen. Without a circumcised heart and a willingness to obey the Father's way be sure that we are without hope, strangers to the covenants, and walking in darkness. My hope is not to put you under the law but through faith to do the walk not just say that we believe.
Yes, I know.
Everyone works.
Only un-believers work at the law.
Everyone thinks they understand the law. Very few actually do.
Working at the law and working for God are two separate and different things.
No, there isn't.
But there is a curse "provision" for those who would reject the New Covenant and work at the law.
The Holy Spirit IS Christ working in us.
No. It means you pushed Christ aside and decided to do your own thing.
Who do you mean by "us"?
Yes...
What you really mean, although I don't think you would admit it, is that your favorite parts of the Mosaic Covenant can be kept with the help of the Holy Spirit.
This is untrue.
The New Covenant isn't something that is kept. It is something that is given. As a gift.
Everyone works.
Only un-believers work at the law.
Everyone thinks they understand the law. Very few actually do.
Working at the law and working for God are two separate and different things.
No, there isn't.
But there is a curse "provision" for those who would reject the New Covenant and work at the law.
The Holy Spirit IS Christ working in us.
No. It means you pushed Christ aside and decided to do your own thing.
Who do you mean by "us"?
Yes...
What you really mean, although I don't think you would admit it, is that your favorite parts of the Mosaic Covenant can be kept with the help of the Holy Spirit.
This is untrue.
The New Covenant isn't something that is kept. It is something that is given. As a gift.