Sabbath

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Dec 21, 2012
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Grace,Know what's great?
And I love to repeat this.

JESUS is going to save us.
He has saved us. That foundation which was laid by Christ Jesus that can never be removed is a testimony of eternal security.

BUT, if someone falls away, He won't be able to...
Not true. A believer that errs from the truth and had his or her faith overthrown, he or she is still saved, because even if he or she does not believe any more, He is faithful because He still abides in them, but they are still called to repent.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.........[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

As far as what you're writing, aren't you saying that we could then break ANY commandment CONTINUOULSY, and still be saved?

It sounds like that.
Is it OK to sin willfully, deliverately, Always, continuously, etc.... ?
If a believer or former believer does not depart from iniquity, even the iniquity of having unbelief after they had been saved, they run the risk of being denied by Him at the pre trib raqpture event when God judges His House first wherein they will be castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So that is why His disciples that are abiding in Him seek the good of other saved believers & even former believers to lead them to go to Christ at that throne of grace for help in seeing the lies that turned them away from Him or to see the iniquity that they are in so they can lean on Him for help to depart from that iniquity & keep them from it till He comes.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

To lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race is how we, and those He lead us to minister to, can obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus as a vessel unto honor.

If you doubt the validity of the message as plainly written, feel free to explain away those verses, but 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 can confirm that those left behind to face a physical death, their souls are still kept by Him. 1 Peter 4:17-19 provided at the link at Bible gateway to read below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+3:10-17;1+Peter+4:17-19&version=KJV
 
Apr 30, 2016
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He has saved us. That foundation which was laid by Christ Jesus that can never be removed is a testimony of eternal security.



Not true. A believer that errs from the truth and had his or her faith overthrown, he or she is still saved, because even if he or she does not believe any more, He is faithful because He still abides in them, but they are still called to repent.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.........[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.



If a believer or former believer does not depart from iniquity, even the iniquity of having unbelief after they had been saved, they run the risk of being denied by Him at the pre trib raqpture event when God judges His House first wherein they will be castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So that is why His disciples that are abiding in Him seek the good of other saved believers & even former believers to lead them to go to Christ at that throne of grace for help in seeing the lies that turned them away from Him or to see the iniquity that they are in so they can lean on Him for help to depart from that iniquity & keep them from it till He comes.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

To lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race is how we, and those He lead us to minister to, can obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus as a vessel unto honor.

If you doubt the validity of the message as plainly written, feel free to explain away those verses, but 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 can confirm that those left behind to face a physical death, their souls are still kept by Him. 1 Peter 4:17-19 provided at the link at Bible gateway to read below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+3:10-17;1+Peter+4:17-19&version=KJV
Enow,

Tomorrow. Too busy on Sunday.

In the meantime, could you please find out what 2 Timothy 2:12 and 13 mean?

If 12 is right then 13 is wrong,
If 13 is right then 12 is wrong.

God is not a God of confusion.
The Word does not contradict itself.

So...
2 Timothy 2:13 must mean something different than what many think it means.
(what does it mean that God is faithful to HIMSELF??)

Tomorrow...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Jesus Christ teaches the Gospel, His, directly to each of us if we go to Him t learn......... He does not always talk so much either.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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As outlined in the Old Testament the Sabbath came with condemnation for the people who disobey. Under Messiah the renewed Sabbath days are still a shadow of what is promised. Sabbath is renewed for mankind to find rest in as well as the renewal of the soul. To say a Sabbath observer is trying to keep the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Testament is error. We keep it in light of the original plan in Gen. Without a circumcised heart and a willingness to obey the Father's way be sure that we are without hope, strangers to the covenants, and walking in darkness. My hope is not to put you under the law but through faith to do the walk not just say that we believe.
what is the original plan in Genesis, in you view,

and what are some examples of how you keep the Sabbath today?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,353
375
83
Jesus Christ teaches the Gospel, His, directly to each of us if we go to Him t learn......... He does not always talk so much either.
I don't doubt that God may be speaking to you directly.

I think he speaks to me also
probably all Christians.

we may wish to ask God whether

or not

these messages are to be shared openly, and for the words to share them if so.


if we cannot put it into words, how will our fellow Christian forum users be able to do this part?
ACTS 17 daily examining the Scriptures to see whether these things were so.



similar to tongues, if there is no interpretation
1 CORINTHIANS 14 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also. I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Otherwise if you bless with the spirit, how will an outsider

say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks,

seeing they don't know what you say?
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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Enow,

Tomorrow. Too busy on Sunday.

In the meantime, could you please find out what 2 Timothy 2:12 and 13 mean?

If 12 is right then 13 is wrong,
If 13 is right then 12 is wrong.

God is not a God of confusion.
The Word does not contradict itself.

So...
2 Timothy 2:13 must mean something different than what many think it means.
(what does it mean that God is faithful to HIMSELF??)

Tomorrow...
2 Timothy 18 shows the example of how one can err from the truth and have their faith overthrown where they stop believing in Him. Another example would be the lie of the evolution theory can cause someone to lose faith and stop believing in Him.

Nevertheless... they still have His seal.... as 2 Timothy 2:19 says... and therefore also testify that He still abides in them which is why they are called to depart from iniquity.. they are not called to preach the gospel to them again to be saved but to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning the lies or the iniquity that has turned them away from abiding in Him so they can lean on Him for help to depart from iniquity to resume fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Jesus Christ isn't going anywhere when a believer stops believing in Him.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If you want to know where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House as being those that did not depart from iniquity when read in context of 2 Timothy 2:18-21, it is when they become castaways at the pre trib rapture event when God judges His House first. They will be damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House when excommunicated from the Marriage Supper where only the vessels unto honor can attend, but they shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as a testimony to the power of God in salvation for even those who believe in His name.

So verse 12 is true and verse 13 is also true when you read verses 18-21 as to why they are both true.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Sometimes when the Holy Spirit is upon us there are no words, no interpretation,yet we feel God's Holy Presence, and His love,. We may simply sigh in the spirit.........God als hears us.

As for when He does speak to us, we know if it is to be shared or no. If the message could only be to us, for us asindividuals, this is made obvious by how deeply we undersand and how we also feel His great Love. He is Love. There is nothing God has actually spoken to me that cannot be shared, and it has not been like I have a direct two-way line with Him. In over half a century, He has spoken to me , twice, maybe three times. Te Holy Spirit has given me many teachings in the most unusual ways,, but this too, as Dan has eloquently stated, happens with all who believe,.

Wait always on the Lord, for this too is good works, amen.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
426
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what is the original plan in Genesis, in you view,

and what are some examples of how you keep the Sabbath today?
Simply put the Garden of Eden. Aka the beginning, where the Sabbath gift started for man.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
426
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Simply put the Garden of Eden. Aka the beginning, where the Sabbath gift started for man.
Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
what is the original plan in Genesis, in you view,

and what are some examples of how you keep the Sabbath today?

First remember the Sabbath day, Friday evening until Saturday evening.
Second don't do your normal job on it but rest.
If you do work on the Sabbath do it as if for Messiah until you can be free to observe the Sabbath day.
Don't keep the traditions of the world but keep the feasts as well. We would all do well to quit keeping the false festivals and guard the biblical times for the people of Elohim. Like unleavened bread, first fruits, tabernacles, Passover, etc... These have their own Sabbaths. Where is judgment in the house of Elohim?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Simply put the Garden of Eden. Aka the beginning, where the Sabbath gift started for man.
not try to be silly here

of the things Adam and Eve did, the ones I can think of that we can do today
are

work in a garden,

be naked
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Dan that is silly. Adam and Eve would have woked in the garden naked ony while they were not aware of nudity.....

It was only afhey disobeyed God by eating of the tree of knowledge when their eyes were opended tot he fact that they were nude.

Previous to their disobedience God watered the garden and all they needed do was enjoy th produce of it..... It is there in Genesis...you read it now, you hear me?


not try to be silly here

of the things Adam and Eve did, the ones I can think of that we can do today
are

work in a garden,

be naked
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,353
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Originally Posted by Dan_473 View Post
what is the original plan in Genesis, in you view,

and what are some examples of how you keep the Sabbath today?
First remember the Sabbath day, Friday evening until Saturday evening.
do you mean just be aware that it's the Sabbath day?



Second don't do your normal job on it but rest.
if we do our normal job are we sinning and dis-obeying God?

If you do work on the Sabbath do it as if for Messiah until you can be free to observe the Sabbath day.
but... aren't Christians supposed to do everything in the name of the Lord?

COLOSSIANS 3:17 Whatever you do in word or in deed

do all in the name of the Lord Jesus

giving thanks to God the Father through him.


Don't keep the traditions of the world but keep the feasts as well. We would all do well to quit keeping the false festivals and guard the biblical times for the people of Elohim. Like unleavened bread, first fruits, tabernacles, Passover, etc... These have their own Sabbaths. Where is judgment in the house of Elohim?
if we celebrate Memorial Day are we sinning and dis-obeying God?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,353
375
83
Dan that is silly. Adam and Eve would have woked in the garden naked ony while they were not aware of nudity.....

It was only afhey disobeyed God by eating of the tree of knowledge when their eyes were opended tot he fact that they were nude.

Previous to their disobedience God watered the garden and all they needed do was enjoy th produce of it..... It is there in Genesis...you read it now, you hear me?
I agree it sounds silly, but I wasn't trying to be.

I was trying to get a handle in what John Talmid meant.


Adan and Eve were naked up until the fall



Adam worked in the garden

GENESIS 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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not try to be silly here

of the things Adam and Eve did, the ones I can think of that we can do today
are

work in a garden,

be naked
TOday we work in God's SPiritual garden producing all the good fruits of God....

dressed in white robes !!!

(you are a few thousand years behind the times, Dan.)
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
426
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Dan that is silly. Adam and Eve would have woked in the garden naked ony while they were not aware of nudity.....

It was only afhey disobeyed God by eating of the tree of knowledge when their eyes were opended tot he fact that they were nude.

Previous to their disobedience God watered the garden and all they needed do was enjoy th produce of it..... It is there in Genesis...you read it now, you hear me?
do you mean just be aware that it's the Sabbath day?

Yes. In order to do this just believe God.



if we do our normal job are we sinning and dis-obeying God?

You are disobeying God yes, but you don't need anyone to help you sin, we do this everyday


but... aren't Christians supposed to do everything in the name of the Lord?

COLOSSIANS 3:17 Whatever you do in word or in deed

do all in the name of the Lord Jesus

giving thanks to God the Father through him.

If you abide in his name you walk as he does. If you say his name at the end of a prayer, (for example) your just invoking a name, it doesn't mean you are his disciple. Many will claim to know him, and because of their lawlessness they don't gain entrance into the Kingdom.


if we celebrate Memorial Day are we sinning and dis-obeying God?
You are disobeying God if you don't keep His appointed times. Haven't you read, " keep the feast" speaking of unleavened bread.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Apparently you are misunderstanding some or all of my posting. When have I not been in favor of what God has taught u of the Sabbath? I understand all most clearly through the teaching of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, but this does not mean I would insist others must be exactly as I.


I obey Jesus Christ...........not dogmas of men or denominations.


You are disobeying God if you don't keep His appointed times. Haven't you read, " keep the feast" speaking of unleavened bread.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
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You are disobeying God if you don't keep His appointed times. Haven't you read, " keep the feast" speaking of unleavened bread.
The Testimony of the Messiah is the New Covenant between us and Heavenly Father.

Let GOD judge us faithful or not...

Father and Son are One.. how can those who reject the Son please the Father? Jewish people remain unbelieving and keep the Old Testament.. yet GOD declared Himself that He would make a New Covenant not like that He made with our fathers... I believe GOD and let Him declare who is Faithful or not in good time.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
426
7
18
The Testimony of the Messiah is the New Covenant between us and Heavenly Father.

Let GOD judge us faithful or not...

Father and Son are One.. how can those who reject the Son please the Father? Jewish people remain unbelieving and keep the Old Testament.. yet GOD declared Himself that He would make a New Covenant not like that He made with our fathers... I believe GOD and let Him declare who is Faithful or not in good time.
The testimony of Messiah Yahshua is of the Father in Heaven and of the Kingdom of Heaven. We call the renewed covenants and the "renewed covenant" the new Testament like its new. To the nations of the word look new covenant In even the Greek is renewed, not New. They, (the Apostles) preached a return to the ancient path and preach of the beginning. Messiah said "look I make all things new" Rev 20ish, Isaiah posted a question, "Remember not the former things,
nor consider the things of old." Isa 43:18

You would no doubt quote 43:19...

19 Behold, I am doing a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness
and rivers in the desert.

But you remember r not the former things, "that happened as an example for us". Nor do you consider what things happened of old.

If you had you would be reminded of the Messiah who followed them around as a rock, who brought Israel the water, or fed them from Heaven? Was it Moses or One greater than him who existed before? Moses testified to Elohim and the Word. We are taught the aspect of the law that Does enslave most, while we fear to look at it in the eyes of the Renewed Covenants and promise to Mankind through Messiah who leads us if we do follow the way.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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The testimony of Messiah Yahshua is of the Father in Heaven and of the Kingdom of Heaven. We call the renewed covenants and the "renewed covenant" the new Testament like its new. To the nations of the word look new covenant In even the Greek is renewed, not New. They, (the Apostles) preached a return to the ancient path and preach of the beginning. Messiah said "look I make all things new" Rev 20ish, Isaiah posted a question, "Remember not the former things,
nor consider the things of old." Isa 43:18

You would no doubt quote 43:19...

19 Behold, I am doing a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness
and rivers in the desert.

But you remember r not the former things, "that happened as an example for us". Nor do you consider what things happened of old.

If you had you would be reminded of the Messiah who followed them around as a rock, who brought Israel the water, or fed them from Heaven? Was it Moses or One greater than him who existed before? Moses testified to Elohim and the Word. We are taught the aspect of the law that Does enslave most, while we fear to look at it in the eyes of the Renewed Covenants and promise to Mankind through Messiah who leads us if we do follow the way.
If you really believe that we, as saved believers, were to follow that which is written in the Old Testament, then why is there no epistle teaching the specifics as you are pointing out to the Gentile believers in Christ to do the same?

You cannot use scripture to infer when Gentiles know nothing of the Old Testament nor what practices they were to do.

Yet we have scripture in the N.T. that plainly teaches not to be circumcised nor keep the laws of Moses nor have respect to any holy days, the sabbath days... etc. and etc.

You need to address the scripture in the New Testament since they are reproving how you are applying the scripture in the Old Testament in regards to the Old Covenant as if the Old Covenant still exists under the New Covenant. It does not still exists under the New Covenant.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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This element of our history in the Holy Spirit is completely misunderstood by today's people of the faith of Abraham.

The new covenant God foretold His people, Israel, was for Israel. The Hebrews who remain in this world have not ceased being Israel, however all who believe Jeus christ have bcome joint heirs with them for we have becom fellow citizens of Israel, that is teh Israel of God. (If youo do not understand this, read more and pray while you do.)

God warns us, that would be you and me, not to judge to condemnation. In another warning, not quite so direct but still just as importand is when He sais, so what if I justify the ungodly....... So, kplease do not judge anyone, even if they have not yet accepted Jesus, Yeshua, as Messiah......... to each, his time will come.

So we have a new covenant given to all of Israel, not jusst to converted gentiles. Now if you believe being Christian is not beingof the Israel of god, you will just have to livewith that, and come your time answer to God for it.


The Testimony of the Messiah is the New Covenant between us and Heavenly Father.

Let GOD judge us faithful or not...

Father and Son are One.. how can those who reject the Son please the Father? Jewish people remain unbelieving and keep the Old Testament.. yet GOD declared Himself that He would make a New Covenant not like that He made with our fathers... I believe GOD and let Him declare who is Faithful or not in good time.