Sabbath

[graceNpeace]

It might help to start at the beginning and not the end. It-the Commandments only became a part of Moses law AFTER they had HEARD GOD GIVE THEM Deut 5v22-25 and they REFUSED to hear God any more....from then on they only listened to Moses. Does that negate the fact that GOD SPOKE to the people first the 10 Commandments ???
Refusing to HEAR GOD does make them Moses law but only to those who refuse GOD ! Do you want to be one of those ???

It makes no difference.

 

[beta]

And what about all the christians being held in concentration camps, like North Korea? Do some believe that God will abandon them and throw them into hell, because they have no idea what day of the week it is?

We have a 'just and compassionate God who will not condemn any who have not first heard the Truth and be corrected from error.

 

[beta]

It makes no difference.

It does if you want to give all credit and glory to God alone - not Moses.

 

[beta]

I do walk with Him - why are you making a false assumption that I cannot be if I do not observe the Sabbath?

It is not a false assumption but based on what you say and claim. HOW can anyone be IN Christ and not go where HE goes 24/7 ? Can a Baby in the womb of it's mother go a different place apart from her ?

 

[beta]

Why must I wade through hundreds of references when I can disprove your interpretation of one or two!
This I have done.

Genesis 2:1-2 cannot be a command to man to observe the Sabbath despite your protestations - the best you could counter with was something along the lines of "I can see it but you can't".
Well that is NOT Biblical proof and it cannot be provided because I can read Gen 2:1-2 as well as you can all it says is that God rested on that day, and He blessed and sanctified it.
That is all.
Absolutely no command to man to do anything.
The word Sabbath is not mentioned at all throughout Genesis - none of the patriarchs observed the Sabbath ever!

Your abysmal attempt at exegesis in Colossians chapter 2 - all to try and "disprove" the simple truth that Paul says one does not have to observe the Sabbath.

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.Col 2:11-17

The handwriting of requirements mentioned here is nothing more or less than the law.
Not some bits of it - all of it!
And when Paul says it was taken out of the way, were did it go?
Well, it was nailed to the cross - the law and its righteous requirements are nailed to the cross!
ALL OF THE LAW - including Sabbath-keeping!

That is what allows Paul to say this:

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.Col 2:16-17

So, why must I bother wading through reams and reams of out of context Scripture when falsehoods such as your interpretation of Gen 2:1-2 and Col 2:14-17 are so easy to disprove...

So when you read Gen 2, it is a very good start for Beginners...but since we are expected to grow and learn 2Pet 3v18, we will eventually come to Ex 31v13 'to keep the Sabbath and be sanctified in what had been established long before at Gen 2. Just go forward step by step instead of wandering in the wilderness in disobedience.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The law of Moses? Maybe I am mistaken but God gave Moses the law not Moses gave us the law.

God said to Moses, write it down.........

 

[Grandpa]

Yet we find,

Mat 7:22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’
Mat 7:23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

Funny thing to say when the Law has no binding effect on Salvation.

That's just a bad translation from a version of the bible that shouldn't be used for studying.

Here's the real translation.

Matthew 7:23 [FONT=&quot]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[/FONT]That's a lot different than "you that break Gods Laws". Because now, the Lord isn't promoting what some may think is their work at the law. Now He is promoting Righteousness.

And what do we know about righteousness?

Romans 3:20-21
[FONT=&quot]20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

This can't be scripture, this can't be inspired by God, if no one is justified by the law. Because your bad version says that the Lord has said depart from me you who break Gods Law.

You are trying to make yourself justified by the law. So of course you will pick a translation that will SEEM to agree with you.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

DO you see the problem here???

If you are justified by any part of the law then you are in unbelief. You believe that the Lord Jesus didn't do what He said He would do. He only did some of what He said He would do.

Don't you think that maybe the Lord did EVERYTHING He said He would do and maybe, just maybe, it is your understanding that is not complete yet???

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

The law of Moses? Maybe I am mistaken but God gave Moses the law not Moses gave us the law.

God said to Moses, write it down.........

Yep, its the law of Moses. Because all of the law came through Moses. Even the 10 Commandments.

 

[Grandpa]

So when you read Gen 2, it is a very good start for Beginners...but since we are expected to grow and learn 2Pet 3v18, we will eventually come to Ex 31v13 'to keep the Sabbath and be sanctified in what had been established long before at Gen 2. Just go forward step by step instead of wandering in the wilderness in disobedience.

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]Is that a command or a suggestion?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yep, its the law of Moses. Because all of the law came through Moses. Even the 10 Commandments.

And here is me thinking all this time that God's Law came through God.....

Ex 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.1
Exo 20:3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5, Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12, ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13, Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14, Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15, Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And....

Exo 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

God's Law was made by God and given by God himself
God bless you

 

[LoveGodForever]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Is that a command or a suggestion?

The next verse tells us where that rest comes from....

Mat 11:29, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Our rest is in learning of Jesus through His Word and following what He says.

God bless

 

[LoveGodForever]

Why must I wade through hundreds of references when I can disprove your interpretation of one or two!
This I have done. Genesis 2:1-2 cannot be a command to man to observe the Sabbath despite your protestations - the best you could counter with was something along the lines of "I can see it but you can't".
Well that is NOT Biblical proof and it cannot be provided because I can read Gen 2:1-2 as well as you can all it says is that God rested on that day, and He blessed and sanctified it.
That is all.
Absolutely no command to man to do anything.
The word Sabbath is not mentioned at all throughout Genesis - none of the patriarchs observed the Sabbath ever!

Your abysmal attempt at exegesis in Colossians chapter 2 - all to try and "disprove" the simple truth that Paul says one does not have to observe the Sabbath.

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.Col 2:11-17
The handwriting of requirements mentioned here is nothing more or less than the law.
Not some bits of it - all of it!
And when Paul says it was taken out of the way, were did it go?
Well, it was nailed to the cross - the law and its righteous requirements are nailed to the cross!
ALL OF THE LAW - including Sabbath-keeping!
That is what allows Paul to say this:
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So, why must I bother wading through reams and reams of out of context Scripture when falsehoods such as your interpretation of Gen 2:1-2 and Col 2:14-17 are so easy to disprove...

Hi graceNpeace,

Nothing personal good friend but you have not disproved a single thing in any of the posts I have provided to help you, and just because you say so does not make it so. All you have done is reject God's Word. I feel sorry for you. All the post above does is state all your same claims that have been clearly answered from God's Word for you in posts 1166, 1168, 1369 and 1388 (not to mention 1157, 1160, 1183, 1209 and 1218) not to mention all the other posts from other people. No point in beating a dead horse so to speak. I wish you all the best and that Jesus may help you even if you do not want help from us.

God bless you

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yep, its the law of Moses. Because all of the law came through Moses. Even the 10 Commandments.

So you don't trust Moses... you have Moses issues my brother, just like the rest of Israel dancing around the golden calf.

 

[JaumeJ]

There are many folks claiming to believe God, yet they edit the Word...well, they think they can or do.

Jesus Christ is the Word from Genesis to the end of Revelation inclusive........

Moses wrote down what was given him to write.........what he wrote witnesses Jesus christ , the Gospel, and the Love that is God.

So you don't trust Moses... you have Moses issues my brother, just like the rest of Israel dancing around the golden calf.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said!

The Judaizers of Paul's day that said that Christians needed to be circumcised had a better "Old Testament biblical reason" then the Sabbath Keepers have today that are trying to pervert the gospel.

Abraham is the father of faith and God told him that he and his descendents needed to be circumcised in order to be in the covenant. Why don't we "obey God" today and all Christians get circumcised? Don't we want to be in the covenant?

I can just hear the cry of the Judaizers trying to deceive the Galatians back in Paul's day -

"Don't you believe the word of God? Why do you not trust and obey the Word of God? Don't you love Jesus? Jesus keep all the Father's commandments - why don't you? I am just sharing the word of God to you - why are you not being a berean?"

I just love the spiritual witchcraft that is trying to be employed here. It's just a work of the flesh. Gal. 5:19 - I don't fall for this nonsense.

What did Paul say about these types coming to Christians to pervert the gospel?

Paul said that he did not stand for the Judaizers message for one hour so that the truth would remain with them. Gal. 2:5

Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

Notice above of what the Judaizers that Paul encountered in Galatia when they came to distort the gospel of the grace of God in Christ for their "law-keeping" of which circumcision and Sabbath keeping are all based on the Old Testament and are but shadows of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.


Notice the "tactics" of the Judaizers - "Don't you love God, don't you believe the word of God. I only give you the word of God. Don't you lover Jesus? Jesus kept all the commandments. Why don't you?"

What is really being said is - If you don't follow the Old Testament shadow way of doing things - then you don't believe the word of God and you don't love Jesus. It's a bunch of spiritual witchcraft and it's a work of the flesh. Gal. 5:19

Jesus is our true Sabbath rest of which the Old Testament testifies of Him.

People are free in the liberty that is in Christ to observe any day or feast fro the Old Testament as they like - but when they say "You are sinning and dis-obeying God if you don't do it the Old Testament way" -

These are Judaizers and are distorting and perverting the gospel.

Paul said that he didn't stand for this for one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the believers.

To those that observe the day for their own personal reasons and do not say that believers are sinning and dis-obeying God if they don't observe the Sabbath as in the Old Testament - I say "Happy Sabbath" when Friday comes along.

Tell us how you see Christ as your true Sabbath rest. We can learn from each other.

 

[LoveGodForever]

There are many folks claiming to believe God, yet they edit the Word...well, they think they can or do.

Jesus Christ is the Word from Genesis to the end of Revelation inclusive........

Moses wrote down what was given him to write.........what he wrote witnesses Jesus christ , the Gospel, and the Love that is God.

Absolutely JaumelJ! We need to live by every word the proceeds out of the mouth of God to have life (Matt 4:4) because Jesus is the Word (John 1:1-4). Ok late my time will see you all latter

God bless you

PS. Watch out for Grace777 he says he loves spiritual witchcraft above. (Just joking) 99

 

[SarahFaith]

“Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?”


“But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I know I am probably beginning to sound like a broken record lol, However that probably makes me fit in just fine lol.

But we can go on and on and on but For me it makes no difference because there is a problem in every single argument against the Sabbath given that no one wants to address.

If Paul is truly saying what you claim or for that matter any of the NT writers are saying what you claim they are saying about the Sabbath or the law. Then do as they did and demonstrate it from the OT. They proved their points by the OT.

If you can not do that then you have no substance to your argument, but a private interpretation of the NT writings.

 

[loveme1]

Hold dear to the Testimony of the Messiah... it is not works but Faith. But.... the Messiah commands works of us..... confuse not the law of Moses with the Commandments of GOD... The Testimony is our New Covenant... The Old was given to bring the Messiah in to the world... void no... fulfilled yes....

 

[Grandpa]

And here is me thinking all this time that God's Law came through God.....

Ex 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.1
Exo 20:3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5, Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12, ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13, Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14, Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15, Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And....

Exo 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

God's Law was made by God and given by God himself
God bless you

I know you will do anything and everything to justify your work at the law. But the fact remains that the 10 commandments are included in the Law of Moses.

John 1:17 [FONT=&quot]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

[/FONT]Exodus 31:18 [FONT=&quot]And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

[/FONT]Galatians 5:4 [FONT=&quot]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

[/FONT]
There was a time and place for the law. But after we have come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are dead to the law and alive to Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

So you don't trust Moses... you have Moses issues my brother, just like the rest of Israel dancing around the golden calf.

I trusted Moses just fine until I realized that neither he, nor the law, could help me.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/FONT]