Sabbath

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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witness
noun



wit·ness | \ ˈwit-nəs \

Definition of witness
(Entry 1 of 2)


1 : attestation of a fact or event : testimony



2 : one that gives evidence specifically : one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal



3 : one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place



4 : one who has personal knowledge of something



5a : something serving as evidence or proof : sign

b : public affirmation by word or example of usually religious faith or conviction the heroic witness to divine life —Pilot



6 capitalized : a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
which of those definitions do you feel the scripture is referring to when it says the two or three Witnesses are required?

Maybe to put it another way, is it that two or three Witnesses are required or two or three eyewitnesses?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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"You continue to judge David after the Christ has already suffered and shed His Blood to forgive Him."

I believe I said that according to the law, David ought to have been stoned.

Of course, according to Christ he is Forgiven and spotless.

I'm still not clear on whether you think a witness for adultery must be present during the ACT, that they have to actually see it happen.
I think you miss the point entirely. A witness in the context of the Law is an accuser, not an observer. And a righteous servant of God would never bring a witness against the Lord's Anointed. It is God who judges His Anointed, not you or Post. Well, it shouldn't be you and Post, but it is.

I think you are trying to say God didn't follow His own law here, so you can have an excuse to disregard whatever Law of God that doesn't fit your religious lifestyle. And I think it is important to note EVERY WORD of God in His Law before you accuse God of showing partiality for David, or before you try and convince people that the Christ taught against His Fathers Commandments.

I can only go by what the Scriptures say, so if you have a religion which rejects or omits the following Word's of God I can only advise you to reconsider the religion.

Lev. 26:
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. (David being carried away by his flesh)
38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

This is just as much a part of God's Law as "Thou shall not kill". David was a living manifestation of God's Promises here, the curses and the blessings.

God did not ignore His Law here, He established it.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
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YOu have yet to learn what a Jew truly is from Paul....from Jesus.
Very possible.

Now, my question is is the practice of wishing shabbat shalom something commanded in the law? Or is it talked about some other place in the scriptures?

Or is it a kind of Jewish tradition similar to wearing a yamaka?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
839
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I think you miss the point entirely. A witness in the context of the Law is an accuser, not an observer. And a righteous servant of God would never bring a witness against the Lord's Anointed. It is God who judges His Anointed, not you or Post. Well, it shouldn't be you and Post, but it is.

I think you are trying to say God didn't follow His own law here, so you can have an excuse to disregard whatever Law of God that doesn't fit your religious lifestyle. And I think it is important to note EVERY WORD of God in His Law before you accuse God of showing partiality for David, or before you try and convince people that the Christ taught against His Fathers Commandments.

I can only go by what the Scriptures say, so if you have a religion which rejects or omits the following Word's of God I can only advise you to reconsider the religion.

Lev. 26:
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. (David being carried away by his flesh)
38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

This is just as much a part of God's Law as "Thou shall not kill". David was a living manifestation of God's Promises here, the curses and the blessings.

God did not ignore His Law here, He established it.
I believe my question was did a witness in your view have to be physically present during the ACT? Perhaps an eyewitness is a better word. Does it have to be an eyewitness?

I believe you mentioned something about not uncovering your father's nakednesss. that led me to think that perhaps you thought that a witness in the scriptures, in the law, had to be physically present during the event and watching.

Now, an accuser sounds like something very different. I would think an accuser would not need to be present during the event.

But then why did you talk about the father's nakedness issue?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You're saying it is a Jewish tradition then? I'm fine with people doing Jewish traditions.

I just thought it was interesting that study man liked your post basically wishing shabbat shalom, yet I thought he was very much against later human traditions.
I simply believe it is "Good" to wish people well in obeying the Great God of Abraham who became Flesh and dwelt among us, as opposed to wishing people well for rebelling against or dishonoring the Great God of Abraham, which became Flesh and dwelt among us.

My Lord, the Lord of God's Holy Sabbath, said it was "Lawful" to do "Good" on the Sabbath Days. Wishing people well, who honor Him with respect and obedience, is not "bad" in my view.

Working to convince people that it is OK to reject His Commandment is not "Good" in my view.

But to each his own.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,157
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Very possible.

Now, my question is is the practice of wishing shabbat shalom something commanded in the law? Or is it talked about some other place in the scriptures?

Or is it a kind of Jewish tradition similar to wearing a yamaka?
It is no differenct than saying "adios" when departing. How can you possibly make a greeting in Hebrew something contentious? This is reaching , and it sounds xenophobic.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
I believe my question was did a witness in your view have to be physically present during the ACT? Perhaps an eyewitness is a better word. Does it have to be an eyewitness?

I believe you mentioned something about not uncovering your father's nakednesss. that led me to think that perhaps you thought that a witness in the scriptures, in the law, had to be physically present during the event and watching.

Now, an accuser sounds like something very different. I would think an accuser would not need to be present during the event.

But then why did you talk about the father's nakedness issue?
You are not an eyewitness Dan, you are an accuser. Those who were an eye witness did not bring an accusation against the Lords anointed just as Noah's two sons didn't "look on" the nakedness of their father.

There were no "Witnesses against David". You can't find one because they are not there. You are a witness against David, Post is a witness against David. The eyewitnesses respected God and their King enough not to bring an accusation against the Lord's anointed.

They had faith that God knew what was going on and their Faith was vindicated.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
481
83
Thanks friends, I learn so much from you all, and hope you all had a great Shabbat! I certainly did ~praise Almighty.

It's always so amazing what happens on Shabbat. It gets sweeter and sweeter, almost like the rest of the week I'm in exile, and Shabbat is going home. No way to explain the "ahhh feeling" to any who have not tasted it.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
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I simply believe it is "Good" to wish people well in obeying the Great God of Abraham who became Flesh and dwelt among us, as opposed to wishing people well for rebelling against or dishonoring the Great God of Abraham, which became Flesh and dwelt among us.

My Lord, the Lord of God's Holy Sabbath, said it was "Lawful" to do "Good" on the Sabbath Days. Wishing people well, who honor Him with respect and obedience, is not "bad" in my view.

Working to convince people that it is OK to reject His Commandment is not "Good" in my view.

But to each his own.
I see. So is it fair to say that in your view man-made traditions, human Traditions are okay if they are good?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
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It is no differenct than saying "adios" when departing. How can you possibly make a greeting in Hebrew something contentious? This is reaching , and it sounds xenophobic.
I was just trying to ascertain weather this was something commanded in the law, or something talked about in the scriptures.

But it sounds like it is neither of those, but rather similar to saying adios, so a human convention.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
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It is no differenct than saying "adios" when departing. How can you possibly make a greeting in Hebrew something contentious? This is reaching , and it sounds xenophobic.
I don't believe I was being contentious at all. I was asking a question, looking for knowledge.

Were you feeling defensive? If so, why? Why not proudly say it's just something I picked up from Hebrew culture?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,157
3,089
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When you have been putting me only in the spotlight to "explaine my motivation" I cannot entertain any other thought.

We all have Google capabilities…….you could have looked it up. If I say "ma shlocha" it is not a religious doctrine, it is simply modern Hebrew asking you how you are....
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
839
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You are not an eyewitness Dan, you are an accuser. Those who were an eye witness did not bring an accusation against the Lords anointed just as Noah's two sons didn't "look on" the nakedness of their father.

There were no "Witnesses against David". You can't find one because they are not there. You are a witness against David, Post is a witness against David. The eyewitnesses respected God and their King enough not to bring an accusation against the Lord's anointed.

They had faith that God knew what was going on and their Faith was vindicated.
"You are not an eyewitness Dan, you are an accuser."

The issue wasn't am I an eyewitness.

The question I was exploring is does the two or three witnesses that the law talks about have to be eyewitnesses, and do they have to be present during the event? Things of that nature.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
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When you have been putting me only in the spotlight to "explaine my motivation" I cannot entertain any other thought.

We all have Google capabilities…….you could have looked it up. If I say "ma shlocha" it is not a religious doctrine, it is simply modern Hebrew asking you how you are....
I haven't been putting you only in the spotlight, I have been interacting with everyone who is interacting with me.

Yes we can all Google things. But the fun thing about a discussion forum like this is interacting with other people.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,792
839
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When you have been putting me only in the spotlight to "explaine my motivation" I cannot entertain any other thought.

We all have Google capabilities…….you could have looked it up. If I say "ma shlocha" it is not a religious doctrine, it is simply modern Hebrew asking you how you are....
I wouldn't know whether "ma shlocha" was a religious Doctrine or not until I researched it either by Googling it or asking the person who used it or some other method.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,157
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Your interrogation does not deal with any teaching from the Word. It is a very weak attempt to tie others into various sects under the umbralla of Judaism.

Since you need to know, as though I have never said this before in your line of sight to read, I have no denomination other than bein a member of the Body of Christ in the faith of Abraham.

Jesus, Yeshua, teaches we are children of Abraham by faith. If you know what Abraham translates as, you should not bethe least surprised.

Now if you are here for language lessons I suggest you start a thread in Miscellaneous on the subject.. If I were to say Shabbat Shalom to all, those who believe know pretty much what is said by inference……..they need no liguistic guidance. Did not Jsus, Himself, also utter words in foreign language to yours? Ask Him if my response is not good enough for you.

The atmosphere of your questioning is much like Torrequemada, the inquisitor.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
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I see. So is it fair to say that in your view man-made traditions, human Traditions are okay if they are good?
No,
I am saying "human traditions" are not bad if they are lawful. That is what the Christ of the Bible said is it not?

Mark. 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Matt. 12:
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

So according to the Christ of the Bible, it is "lawful" to do good, "Wish a Brother well", on the Sabbath days.

Working for money, or golfing the back nine or grilling pork chops would not be doing "Good" on God's Holy Sabbath, in my view.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,020
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But you are preaching that David was not punished, that God punished David's bastard son to atone for his sin. And you completely ignore the Word's of God which expose your preaching on this matter as false.
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife -- with the wife of his neighbor --
both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
(Leviticus 20:10)
The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.
(2 Samuel 12:13)


all for the sake of your love to argue with me, you are preaching that God punished David for sin that He had removed from him.
for your love of being spiteful against me, whom you hate, you are preaching that God is evil and unjust.


and this is because i have preached Christ to you in the scripture, and you reject it, because you would embrace a lie openly before you would accept correction.
David's sin was taken away. the Law demanded David's physical death.
a son died. The Son took his place and died, as He did mine.



good job dude.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There is also the fact of the child. The pregnancy.

All the neighbors and Palace servants I suppose know that Uriah hasn't been home for a long time.

That's probably why David is so desperate to get Uriah to sleep with her even just once. Then this whole thing can just go away.

But it doesn't work out that way, and so yes, very likely loads of witnesses.

Unless one demands that at least two witnesses be present in the very bedroom at the time. I think that would make a mockery of the law.
However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die.
(2 Samuel 12:14)

we might ask ourselves how the enemies of the LORD would have occasion to blaspheme because of this event if no one knew it had happened. or indeed if ((as these two people, in their overriding rejection of whatever post says, have begun to say)) it may have never happened at all.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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No,
I am saying "human traditions" are not bad if they are lawful. That is what the Christ of the Bible said is it not?

Mark. 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Matt. 12:
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

So according to the Christ of the Bible, it is "lawful" to do good, "Wish a Brother well", on the Sabbath days.

Working for money, or golfing the back nine or grilling pork chops would not be doing "Good" on God's Holy Sabbath, in my view.
in your view, Christ was not fully man and fully God. so, your views on what a Christian is supposed to be is invalid.