Sabbath

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Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Kinda the same thing with the first murder... there were no commandments at that time but Cain knew he was wrong in murdering Able. God's law has always been in existence even if it wasn't written on stone in the garden lots of implications apparent. With the conversation God had with Cain about the murder....
That's an interesting point!

We can say that all humans since the time of Adam and Eve have the knowledge of Good and Evil.

I think an interesting thing though, is that we don't see the Sabbath being talked about prior to Exodus but we do see lots of other evils happening. Does this mean that even in places like Sodom they were keeping the Sabbath?

Also if we look at cultures around the world, we can find examples in every culture of taboos about murder and sexuality. But I don't think we can find those same taboos about a weekly Sabbath. Though I'm not completely sure, I could be wrong.
 

Dan_473

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Because of my life time of witnessing many denominations from within, I have come to realize there is no such item as a denomination that rightly handles the Word of God.

If a person exposes anyone or any group that is false, it is a service to the truth and can never be deemed as slanderous.

I love all people more who call upon Jesus, Yeshua, in Spirit and Truth even though they arre espoused first to denomination for when the children are called out of the Great Harlot, it is certain they will also be called out of all of her daughters for she is the mother of harlots.
We have a lot in common,
JaumeJ!
I too have been in many denominations and do not currently consider myself part of any particular denomination. And I definitely agree with "If a person exposes anyone or any group that is false, it is a service to the truth..."!
 

Dan_473

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The laws have been since Adam handed down as oral tradition . Following the orl tradition continue from Noah. We all know, at least most know, that the law was given to Moses to write down……….and Moses was obliged to wear a veil when he presented it to the people.

Jesus, Yeshua, has removed that veil……….though many yet read all of the scripturew blinded by the same, even the New Testament....
That seems like that would be a strange situation.

Are you saying that Adam handed down through the generations the Commandment not to make a treaty with people from ammon or Moab?
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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My father changed jobs a lot as a truck driver in the 1940's and 50's so we inturn moved many times . I wuld go to the churchnearest my home at the time. My father said I could go to any church as long as it was not Jewish or Catholic, so I went to the church nearest my home...…..the one with a cross that is.

In the 1950's I heard hatred preached from pulpits in all of the denominations I atened, and would say to my self, "Jesus loves those Jews, Jesus loves thos "negros." I say black now…..Afro-American does not make a lot of sense to me since there are many cuntries there, and the peoples vary a lot.

From my earliest recollectioñ going to Bible school summers I had but one theology, from mychildhood song, "Jesus Loves Me," and that i what I always bsed my faith upong……….until the Holy Spirit entered into me and taught me all I need know……..just as He does with all who believe.....and so it goes. Praise Jesus Chrsit, Yeshua...……..amen. Thanks for the attention.
 

JaumeJ

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Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Adam knew God and the creation history so he was aware that the Seventh day was set aside by our Father.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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I agree with your logic there.

To carry the idea that if God did something, we are to do it too, then a person could say that we are to banish people as God banished Cain.
The glaring, obvious difference between banishing Cain because he refused to accept God's Word as truth, and observing God's Holy Sabbath God made for man, is the Biblical truth that God is the Almighty Judge, not you or Post. God is also the Almighty Father, which commanded His People not only to obey our father, but also to honor HIM by following His instruction regarding the seventh day of the Week, and Sabbaths of His Choosing. "These are MY Feasts".

I am not aware that my Father commanded me to "banish" anyone. That judgment is His to make. I am to agree with His judgment, so I will not be helping Cain further his religion should he, or someone else who rejects God's Word, show up. God's Judgment is OK with me.

I also recognize that Cain was "banished" for refusing to accept God's definition of "Good" and that is why he was not accepted. So to me, only a deceived person would follow in Cain's footsteps regarding following God's instructions, which includes creating images of God in the likeness of man,, stealing, and/or the treatment of God's Holy Sabbath.

So you and Post's "Logic" that to keep the Sabbath is the same as "banishing" people doesn't make any sense.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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I just simply believe what Jesus said about His authority. either he was telling the truth about what He could do, or he was not.

so, when He says that He had the authority to lay down His life and take it up again, I simply believe Him.

I just have this weird personal theology that I read the text and believe it as written. I do not feel any need to re-arrange it to suit my beliefs, ( here is the strange part ) I let the text FORM my beliefs.
John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Matt. 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Do all humans have the ability to "Lay down our life" in trust of the Christ? Can a man take my life from me? Or is it my own choices which determine my fate? And does this not give us the power to "choose" life?

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
 

JesusLives

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Oct 11, 2013
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Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Adam knew God and the creation history so he was aware that the Seventh day was set aside by our Father.
Probably better than anyone since he, Adam got to celebrate the first of many with God himself. That would have been fabulous to be able to walk and talk with our God.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Adam knew God and the creation history so he was aware that the Seventh day was set aside by our Father.
Did Adam know that God rested on that 7th Day?

Would you agree that The Seventh-Day Sabbath is one of the things that are a shadow? I think when the Colossians heard this they probably associated it in their mind with Plato's allegory of the cave, which was probably Paul's intent.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Plato, very impressive. I believe , since Noah knew the differences of clean and unclean animals that the historic premis of oral tradition must be valid. Of course Adam knw the entre history, very short, of God and His creation, for Adam formed part of it, and YES, he would have known about the seventh day being made separate from the other common days.

Noah knew. There has always been oral tradtition of the history of this creation. If you read the Old Testament you will observe many of these references. God bless you.....and please do not bring up scholars, historians or philosophers as evidence of anything...…..I beieve the Book.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Probably better than anyone since he, Adam got to celebrate the first of many with God himself. That would have been fabulous to be able to walk and talk with our God.
I would love to have the authority to give you other of the likes, the positive ones of course.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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The glaring, obvious difference between banishing Cain because he refused to accept God's Word as truth, and observing God's Holy Sabbath God made for man, is the Biblical truth that God is the Almighty Judge, not you or Post. God is also the Almighty Father, which commanded His People not only to obey our father, but also to honor HIM by following His instruction regarding the seventh day of the Week, and Sabbaths of His Choosing. "These are MY Feasts".

I am not aware that my Father commanded me to "banish" anyone. That judgment is His to make. I am to agree with His judgment, so I will not be helping Cain further his religion should he, or someone else who rejects God's Word, show up. God's Judgment is OK with me.

I also recognize that Cain was "banished" for refusing to accept God's definition of "Good" and that is why he was not accepted. So to me, only a deceived person would follow in Cain's footsteps regarding following God's instructions, which includes creating images of God in the likeness of man,, stealing, and/or the treatment of God's Holy Sabbath.

So you and Post's "Logic" that to keep the Sabbath is the same as "banishing" people doesn't make any sense.
"I am not aware that my Father commanded me to "banish" anyone. "

Exactly! Yet we see that God banished Cain. Now, I am not aware that at the time that God rests on the 7th Day following the six days of creation that He commands humans to do the same.

The logic at issue is this, is God doing something the same as a command to do it?

I would say the no, it is not. We could find many other examples I think of God doing something which does not amount to a command for us to do the same thing.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Probably better than anyone since he, Adam got to celebrate the first of many with God himself. That would have been fabulous to be able to walk and talk with our God.
What would lead us to believe that Adam celebrated the Sabbath with God? As the story of the garden is presented, Adam and Eve spend time apart from God. That's why they can hear God walking in the cool of the day after they have eaten the fruit.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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832
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Plato, very impressive. I believe , since Noah knew the differences of clean and unclean animals that the historic premis of oral tradition must be valid. Of course Adam knw the entre history, very short, of God and His creation, for Adam formed part of it, and YES, he would have known about the seventh day being made separate from the other common days.

Noah knew. There has always been oral tradtition of the history of this creation. If you read the Old Testament you will observe many of these references. God bless you.....and please do not bring up scholars, historians or philosophers as evidence of anything...…..I beieve the Book.
I believe the book also! And to properly understand the book, I think it's important to know about the culture in which the book was written.

Today if we talk about something like leaving bread crumbs behind for a trail we know that we are referring to Hansel and Gretel. Or if we say that's just sour grapes, we know it's a reference to an ancient fable.

So the people in colossae would likely have associated Plato's allegory of the cave with Paul's talking about this being a shadow and that being the reality.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Plato, very impressive. I believe , since Noah knew the differences of clean and unclean animals that the historic premis of oral tradition must be valid. Of course Adam knw the entre history, very short, of God and His creation, for Adam formed part of it, and YES, he would have known about the seventh day being made separate from the other common days.

Noah knew. There has always been oral tradtition of the history of this creation. If you read the Old Testament you will observe many of these references. God bless you.....and please do not bring up scholars, historians or philosophers as evidence of anything...…..I beieve the Book.
I agree that God tells Noah to take 7 couples of clean animals but only 1 couple of unclean. At least I think those are the numbers.

But does the oral tradition include things like making treaties with people from Moab or Amman?
 

JesusLives

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Oct 11, 2013
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What would lead us to believe that Adam celebrated the Sabbath with God? As the story of the garden is presented, Adam and Eve spend time apart from God. That's why they can hear God walking in the cool of the day after they have eaten the fruit.
We as people enjoy making and creating things. For example we paint a room in our house being creative... Now don't tell me that you don't spend time in that room after you have gone to the trouble to make it a place to be comfortable and beautiful.

To me it would be the same at God's creation He created man and then He made the Sabbath as a crowning touch to His week of creation now do you truly believe in your heart that God did not spend that time with all He created during that week or He went off to some dark corner and celebrated by Himself?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I believe the book also! And to properly understand the book, I think it's important to know about the culture in which the book was written.

Today if we talk about something like leaving bread crumbs behind for a trail we know that we are referring to Hansel and Gretel. Or if we say that's just sour grapes, we know it's a reference to an ancient fable.

So the people in colossae would likely have associated Plato's allegory of the cave with Paul's talking about this being a shadow and that being the reality.

I do not believe it necessary for the Father or His Children to consult the cultures of His creation; I actually I believe He was is and will be to the end totally knowlegeable of man.

The written word kills but the Holy Spirit gives life......if the Holy Spirit is not present when one studies the Word, it is dath.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I agree that God tells Noah to take 7 couples of clean animals but only 1 couple of unclean. At least I think those are the numbers.

But does the oral tradition include things like making treaties with people from Moab or Amman?
AS far as I have learned from Oral tradition of oral trdition, until the people of this world separated themselves from the Living God, they had a dialogue, therefore they know His wishes and obeyed them. It was not until Abraham was one of the last who did not pull aaway from God that the remainder of mankind lost track of God's desires.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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"I am not aware that my Father commanded me to "banish" anyone. "

Exactly! Yet we see that God banished Cain. Now, I am not aware that at the time that God rests on the 7th Day following the six days of creation that He commands humans to do the same.

The logic at issue is this, is God doing something the same as a command to do it?

I would say the no, it is not. We could find many other examples I think of God doing something which does not amount to a command for us to do the same thing.
If God set's something apart and makes it Holy, or if God judges something as Evil or Unholy, is it a Command? Well, you are not obligated to "believe" God Dan, and you are also not obligated to obey His definition of Holy or Evil, Good or Bad.

You are free to make your own judgments and create your own holy. Many men do as the Bile records.

But Your "belief" or your "judgments" are nothing by a menstrual pad in the eyes of the Word which became Flesh, according to His Word. You may have been convinced that you are already immortal, already saved, as was Eve. But your "belief" doesn't have one iota of effect on God's Word or His Truth. Your life is a vapor, here today and gone tomorrow. You have this life to "believe" God or not. Many will call Him Lord, Lord, they will do all sorts of their version of "good" things all in His Name. But if you reject what God created as Holy and "good" and replaced it with your religious traditions, your own imaginations of the mind, then you are Cain just like those Jesus warned about in Matthew 7.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Men can either "Believe" in the Works of the Lord of the Sabbath, The word which became Flesh who created "ALL THINGS" or you don't.

I don't believe there is any other way but through Him.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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We as people enjoy making and creating things. For example we paint a room in our house being creative... Now don't tell me that you don't spend time in that room after you have gone to the trouble to make it a place to be comfortable and beautiful.

To me it would be the same at God's creation He created man and then He made the Sabbath as a crowning touch to His week of creation now do you truly believe in your heart that God did not spend that time with all He created during that week or He went off to some dark corner and celebrated by Himself?
we see that when Adam and Eve are talking to the serpent God doesn't seem to be around. They don't come in contact with God until the cool of the day when they hear him walking in the garden and they hide themselves in the trees. so it does sound like God did not spend all of his time with Adam and Eve, there were times when they were separate.

I think the crowning Touch of creation is the sixth day because it is after that, after God makes humans that he says it is very good. I think in previous days he says it's just good.

And God does spend some time with Adam because we know that after he forms him out of the ground he talks with him bring some of the various animals to name and makes Eve out of Adam.