Sabbath

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You completely MISunderstood my meaning and I am not going to argur with you. Difference in understanding is bound to happen when we speak from different sides. Have a nice day !

so you don't think regretting what you're doing is a negative thing? not even willing to discuss it because you've written me off as evil therefore not worthy of your wisdom on the matter? because i keep the command of God, "do not let anyone act as your judge with regard to a sabbath"

bizarre.


some of the people i meet here just don't make any sense at all =\
well, the human brain starts deteriorating almost immediately at birth. so what should we expect from each other?
lol, we should 100% expect brain damage.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I don't understand the resistance to this when there isn't any to not coveting, for example. :unsure:
you get the exact same thing when people start judging one another over eating bacon. not resistance to a healthy diet, but resistance to being judged over consuming delicious bacon. the Bible says not to allow anyone to judge you over bacon ((Colossians 2:16-17)) so of course people are like, hey, what gives?!
on the other side, people start talking about the Sinai covenant Law, pointing out how bacon is a pork product and therefore not kosher. they try to frame the whole discussion as though by gratefully receiving and enjoying tasty bacon strips people are willfully sinning. they compare the bacon bits to the mark of the beast and go on and on about how pigs were created whole and it wasn't until man came along and invented ways to thinly slice and fry them. they quote Exodus and Leviticus and completely disregard what Christ has done, removing the written requirements of the Law and setting us free, having died to what condemned us and no longer found under it through immersion into Him and His cross. they gloss over all the new testament epistles and say things like, '
Jesus didn't eat bacon'
all that stuff sounds really convincing and it certainly has them hoodwinked, but it's ultimately an impossibly failed argument because it contradicts what we read in the Bible. we are not under meat and drink laws. we are saved by belief, and serve by the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code. we are able to eat sizzling and scrumptious bacon slices with thanksgiving to God and we're not condemned for doing so - and we're not under commandment to be juicing and eating only raw organic soya products. all the while, if your conscious condemns you when you eat bacon, it's sin for you, but you must not judge the brother who freely chews and swallows bacon without guilt. the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, and His true worshippers worship in spirit & truth, not on this mountain or some other. try not to make the weaker brother stumble, but don't impose your own lack of faith on everyone else. act with sincere love, being thankful always to Him who set you free and made you alive while you were dead in sin and ignorance.


:)
 

Mayflowe

Junior Member
Oct 6, 2016
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you get the exact same thing when people start judging one another over eating bacon. not resistance to a healthy diet, but resistance to being judged over consuming delicious bacon. the Bible says not to allow anyone to judge you over bacon ((Colossians 2:16-17)) so of course people are like, hey, what gives?!
on the other side, people start talking about the Sinai covenant Law, pointing out how bacon is a pork product and therefore not kosher. they try to frame the whole discussion as though by gratefully receiving and enjoying tasty bacon strips people are willfully sinning. they compare the bacon bits to the mark of the beast and go on and on about how pigs were created whole and it wasn't until man came along and invented ways to thinly slice and fry them. they quote Exodus and Leviticus and completely disregard what Christ has done, removing the written requirements of the Law and setting us free, having died to what condemned us and no longer found under it through immersion into Him and His cross. they gloss over all the new testament epistles and say things like, '
Jesus didn't eat bacon'
all that stuff sounds really convincing and it certainly has them hoodwinked, but it's ultimately an impossibly failed argument because it contradicts what we read in the Bible. we are not under meat and drink laws. we are saved by belief, and serve by the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code. we are able to eat sizzling and scrumptious bacon slices with thanksgiving to God and we're not condemned for doing so - and we're not under commandment to be juicing and eating only raw organic soya products. all the while, if your conscious condemns you when you eat bacon, it's sin for you, but you must not judge the brother who freely chews and swallows bacon without guilt. the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, and His true worshippers worship in spirit & truth, not on this mountain or some other. try not to make the weaker brother stumble, but don't impose your own lack of faith on everyone else. act with sincere love, being thankful always to Him who set you free and made you alive while you were dead in sin and ignorance.


:)
Thanks posthuman. This is such an interesting conversation! I wont too much because it is quite late here, where I am and I have to go out early in the morning! I think I can see what you are saying by your analogy to dietary laws. By your analogy, is not eating bacon the same thing as saying we are saved by doing that necessarily? Where does the analogy differ from the reality of the two things being compared? Are the dietary laws to be viewed in exactly the same way as the Ten Commandments Law? Which commandments does Colossians 2 refer to? Also, Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil (Matthew 5:17) than what is the difference between destroy and fulfil as it seems many interpretations of "fulfil" are in the effect that it is said to have for us tantamount to "destroy". If it is the case that Jesus' "fulfilment" of the law meant that He does not need to manifest the law in our lives and hearts, why, in reality, do most Christians not murder, commit adultery etc but only mention that fulfilment = doing away with when it comes to the Sabbath alone whereas they would agree to upholding the other commandments?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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so you don't think regretting what you're doing is a negative thing? not even willing to discuss it because you've written me off as evil therefore not worthy of your wisdom on the matter? because i keep the command of God, "do not let anyone act as your judge with regard to a sabbath"

bizarre.


some of the people i meet here just don't make any sense at all =\
well, the human brain starts deteriorating almost immediately at birth. so what should we expect from each other?
lol, we should 100% expect brain damage.
Yes true...the 'old man or woman is no use to God.....that is why He is starting a 'New Creation by and through HIS SPIRIT, so we will be like Him, all apeaking the same thing. JESUS is already our perfect living walking Example, never saying or doing anything the Father did not tell Him.
Come Lord Jesus !
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
Where do you get most of your Christian teachings, we have Calvinist, Lutherans and many more that broke off from the Catholic Church just after the middle ages when people started becoming literate.

The RCC hijacked Christianity just about the time they formed after the Nicene Council in 325 AD. The pagan Emperor Constantine, that called the Council, steered Christianity for the rest of his life.

When these "Protestants" broke off, they did so with many complaints about church doctrine. These complaints (or protests) are what they derive their name from.

Trouble is, they carried enough of that false doctrine to make themselves daughters of the great whore (see Rev. 17:5). You don't even realize you are honoring the Catholics by keeping their teachings about the Sabbath. They even admit, in their ibid, they changed the Sabbath and that all of Christianity is following them. :cool:
It all boils down to the fact that there are people who do not like grace and the fact that grace is being taught in the Bible.
The New Testament teaches grace.
It’s not a disputable matter.
No amount of posting scripture out of context changes that fact.

People can believe whatever they want. One should be honest about their agenda.
If you believe Christ came to bring us grace then you don’t believe the NT. There is no hi jacking of the scripture or misinterpreted words.
The NT says what it say very clearly.
If the Bible as it is written offends
Some people they may need to find a new book to start studying.
A book they don’t need to ignore half of just to make their agenda
Work.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
It all boils down to the fact that there are people who do not like grace and the fact that grace is being taught in the Bible.
The New Testament teaches grace.
It’s not a disputable matter.
No amount of posting scripture out of context changes that fact.

People can believe whatever they want. One should be honest about their agenda.
If you don't believe Christ came to bring us grace then you don’t believe the NT. There is no hi jacking of the scripture or misinterpreted words.
The NT says what it say very clearly. Jesus brought us grace.
If the Bible as it is written offends
Some people they may need to find a new book to start studying.
A book they don’t need to ignore half of just to make their agenda
Work.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
It all boils down to the fact that there are people who do not like grace and the fact that grace is being taught in the Bible.
The New Testament teaches grace.
It’s not a disputable matter.
No amount of posting scripture out of context changes that fact.

People can believe whatever they want. One should be honest about their agenda.
If you believe Christ came to bring us grace then you don’t believe the NT. There is no hi jacking of the scripture or misinterpreted words.
The NT says what it say very clearly.
If the Bible as it is written offends
Some people they may need to find a new book to start studying.
A book they don’t need to ignore half of just to make their agenda
Work.

I believe Jesus came to save us, not from an unjust God with unjust instructions as "many" imply, but to save us from our wickedness and rebellion. Not so we could continue to be wicked and continue to rebel against Him and His Word, but so we could have a clean slate to:

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The entire Bible teaches Grace.

Gen. 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

To imply, as you do, that only the New Testament is a valid source of information about God is popular in mainstream religions, but is not accurate according to the Bible.

We know there will be religious men, disguised as "Ministers of Righteousness" who will use parts of God's Word to deceive us into following our own vision, and not the instruction of God. We know this because Jesus, as the Word, gave us the example as a warning in the very beginning of the Bible.

Gen. 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

But we are given the key to resisting the serpent.

2 Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Law and Prophets) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Eh. 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of (Mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The "Good Works" are found in the Law and Prophets that Paul taught from as there was no NT yet. The Mainstream Preachers of his time didn't believe in the Law and Prophets, and most preachers don't consider them valid today.

But Paul held them in High Regard.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Pharisees) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


If you believe Christ came to bring us grace then you don’t believe the NT.
I do believe the Word which became Flesh brought Grace to man. Both the Law and Prophets, and the Apostles letters say the same things. Not sure how you reconcile preaching that If I believe the Christ brought grace, I am somehow in unbelief of parts of the Bible.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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yes, " in this sign conquer " was the other event.

but, since, you seem not to know. i'll help you out-

the council of Nicaea was called to settle a dispute between Constantine and arius of Alexandria , the dispute being was Jesus born a man , then became divine, or was he born divine.
I already answered why the Council was called. You missed the other point that was to be settled "Easter." See below.

so, hate to break it you conspiracy theorists, the council was not called to worship the sun God, or make Christanity pagan.
You are right there was no official council to establish Sunday, it was just done. The Council at Laodicea (AD 365) did outlaw the true Sabbath. See below.

and, their is plenty of N.T. Scripture that Christ followers meet on the first day of the week.

I know you all think Christ rose on the Sabbath, but sorry, wrong , " at dawn on the first day of the week."

the greek word dawn means- dawn. sunup.
Christ was already risen unseen by the time He greeted Mary. If He was buried just before sundown, He resurrected just before sundown. Jesus said three days and three nights (72 hours).

sorry to burst your bubble with truth, but you will probably dismiss this as a catholic conspiracy to ruin Christianty, as your group does with everything that proves your Sabbath hoax to be hoax.
From post #112

The council Nicea did not address the Sabbath, that is correct.

But at this time, there were many different doctrines among Christians. So Constantine called upon a conclave of bishops from all over Rome, to settle these differences. This happened at the Council of Nicea in 325, which was convened to solve two main differences: The first was the divinity of Christ. Arius, a priest of Alexandria, was teaching that Christ was created and not eternal and divine like the Father. The Council denied him and his doctrines; and condemned his followers, the Arian teachers, although this Arian wing continued strong in some areas. When the Germanic and Gothic invaders were converted to Christianity, it was usually to the Arian form. The other major difference, facing the Council was the date on which to celebrate Passover. At this time, in Asia Minor, many Christians still commemorated Jesus’ death on the day the Jewish Passover lambs were slain. But Rome and the Western churches chose to honor the resurrection instead. They celebrated the Passover always on a Sunday. The Council ruled in favor of the west and Rome. It ruled that the Passover, commemorating the death of Jesus, no longer be kept—anyone keeping the old way would be put to death. This new Passover was celebrated on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox. It was later called “Easter” by the Germanic Christian converts.

Here is the event that changed the Sabbath:

The Roman Catholic Church grew out of this “hijacking” of Christianity by Constantine. I might note here: as a result of this hijacking—and his Sunday sabbath—the later Council of Laodicea (AD 365) outlawed the true seventh-day sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday).
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I already answered why the Council was called. You missed the other point that was to be settled "Easter." See below.


You are right there was no official council to establish Sunday, it was just done. The Council at Laodicea (AD 365) did outlaw the true Sabbath. See below.



Christ was already risen unseen by the time He greeted Mary. If He was buried just before sundown, He resurrected just before sundown. Jesus said three days and three nights (72 hours).



From post #112

The council Nicea did not address the Sabbath, that is correct.

But at this time, there were many different doctrines among Christians. So Constantine called upon a conclave of bishops from all over Rome, to settle these differences. This happened at the Council of Nicea in 325, which was convened to solve two main differences: The first was the divinity of Christ. Arius, a priest of Alexandria, was teaching that Christ was created and not eternal and divine like the Father. The Council denied him and his doctrines; and condemned his followers, the Arian teachers, although this Arian wing continued strong in some areas. When the Germanic and Gothic invaders were converted to Christianity, it was usually to the Arian form. The other major difference, facing the Council was the date on which to celebrate Passover. At this time, in Asia Minor, many Christians still commemorated Jesus’ death on the day the Jewish Passover lambs were slain. But Rome and the Western churches chose to honor the resurrection instead. They celebrated the Passover always on a Sunday. The Council ruled in favor of the west and Rome. It ruled that the Passover, commemorating the death of Jesus, no longer be kept—anyone keeping the old way would be put to death. This new Passover was celebrated on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox. It was later called “Easter” by the Germanic Christian converts.

Here is the event that changed the Sabbath:

The Roman Catholic Church grew out of this “hijacking” of Christianity by Constantine. I might note here: as a result of this hijacking—and his Sunday sabbath—the later Council of Laodicea (AD 365) outlawed the true seventh-day sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday).

here is the actual statement-

" Christians must not Judeaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work that day, rather honor the Lord's Day, and, if they can, resting as Christians. but, if any found to be judeaizers , let them be anathema from Christ."

I got no big problems with statement.

you and your group do not honor the Lord's Day. you think that means Sabbath, when it clearly does not.

and the lie that Christ rose on the Sabbath , man I am tired of debunking that.

the Sabbath ends at sun down. sat. the women did not go to the tomb till the next mourning, " at dawn on the first day of the week"

dawn means dawn. in the greek.

so, i'll tell you the same thing I told your fearless ( clueless) leader studyman- the catholic church did not write the greek language.

so, produce a translation that defines the word dawn as dusk, and I go with what you say. till them, I will go with what the word means over your judeaizing opinion.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
here is the actual statement-

" Christians must not Judeaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work that day, rather honor the Lord's Day, and, if they can, resting as Christians. but, if any found to be judeaizers , let them be anathema from Christ."

I got no big problems with statement.

you and your group do not honor the Lord's Day. you think that means Sabbath, when it clearly does not.

and the lie that Christ rose on the Sabbath , man I am tired of debunking that.

the Sabbath ends at sun down. sat. the women did not go to the tomb till the next mourning, " at dawn on the first day of the week"

dawn means dawn. in the greek.

so, i'll tell you the same thing I told your fearless ( clueless) leader studyman- the catholic church did not write the greek language.

so, produce a translation that defines the word dawn as dusk, and I go with what you say. till them, I will go with what the word means over your judeaizing opinion.
Nobody witnessed the resurrection. When Christ met Mary the act was already done. Why can't you get that into your head. :):cool:
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Nobody witnessed the resurrection. When Christ met Mary the act was already done. Why can't you get that into your head. :):cool:

therefore, since no one witnessed it, how do YOU KNOW that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, since the Sabbath had ended 8-12 hours before anyone came to the tomb ( no humans).

at dawn on the first day of the week
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Christ was already risen unseen by the time He greeted Mary. If He was buried just before sundown, He resurrected just before sundown. Jesus said three days and three nights (72 hours).
I already posted it, it is in scripture. How do you know He didn't?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Thanks posthuman. This is such an interesting conversation!
your'e welcome :) ((tho any good in me isn't me but Him))
it really is very interesting, and as much as we can see Christ revealed in it, profitable


I wont too much because it is quite late here, where I am and I have to go out early in the morning!
ah, time. alas & anon

I think I can see what you are saying by your analogy to dietary laws. By your analogy, is not eating bacon the same thing as saying we are saved by doing that necessarily? Where does the analogy differ from the reality of the two things being compared?
eating bacon isn't necessarily the same as saying we're saved by eating bacon & not eating bacon isn't the same as saying we're saved by not eating bacon. eating bacon is eating bacon, and not eating bacon is either eating something else or nothing at all..
but is saying salvation is lost by eating bacon or not eating bacon the same thing as saying salvation is acquired by bacon-eating or bacon-shunning? what if someone says "
you ain't really gone shoppin' if you didn't bring home the bacon" -- then are they making bacon-gathering equivalent to getting groceries?
if something's said to be necessary, then it's it's not necessarily sufficient, and if it's sufficient, it's not necessarily necessary. something that is neither necessary nor sufficient is incidental - doesn't mean it's not good or not bad, just that it's not '
essential' - not part of the basis. if i bring home eggs that's sufficient to indicate i've been shopping for groceries, but not necessary. some people simply can't tolerate eggs. but if i've got eggs i could bring bacon too, or i could just have eggs. either way i've evidently been to the grocer.

where does analogy differ from reality? hmm... we'll need to accurately define '
reality' :D

Are the dietary laws to be viewed in exactly the same way as the Ten Commandments Law?
everywhere the Bible talks about 'the Law' it treats it as one Law and doesn't speak of it as though any part of it is separable from the rest of it.
humans however, talk about it differently than God does.
as far as what God says about it, whoever breaks one part is guilty of all, and anyone breaking the least of it is called last in the kingdom of heaven. and He says that whoever has died is not under any of it. ((James 2:10, Matthew 5:19, Romans 7:1))

this is the way i believe all of it should be viewed:

Search the scriptures;
for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of Me.
(John 5:39)

"
search" is in imperative form. this is a command. view all the scripture as though it testifies of Christ, as He says, from Genesis to Revelation.

Which commandments does Colossians 2 refer to?
that's a dense chapter! i'll need at least 10,000 pages and 1,000 years and an uncountable amount of help to answer that question!
lol
you're probably asking about vv. 16-17. it says meat and drink, feasts, new moon festivals and sabbaths. it calls them all shadows and calls Christ the substance of each. so any command having to do with any of those 4 categories - all treated identically by the text - is the natural conclusion. all 4 of those things were given as signs as part of the Sinai covenant made with the children of Israel at Horeb within a covenant law that the Bible speaks of consistently as one Law. a covenant that passed away with the coming of '
a new and better one'
and it's a command itself:
therefore do not let anyone judge you with regard to . . .

Also, Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil (Matthew 5:17) than what is the difference between destroy and fulfil as it seems many interpretations of "fulfil" are in the effect that it is said to have for us tantamount to "destroy". If it is the case that Jesus' "fulfilment" of the law meant that He does not need to manifest the law in our lives and hearts, why, in reality, do most Christians not murder, commit adultery etc but only mention that fulfilment = doing away with when it comes to the Sabbath alone whereas they would agree to upholding the other commandments?
another huge subject; awesome
let's start now and hopefully finish after forever...

there's something fundamentally different about sabbath than the commands '
do not covet' and 'do not bear false witness' -- it's a sign, not a moral precept. in that respect it's like baptism -- it's done with H2O as a sign, but H2O doesn't wash sin away, so that a human can't look at another human and know because of the H2O that the heart has been cleaned. it may be clean without the H2O sign and it may be unclean with the H2O sign. ((remember necessity and sufficiency?)). and circumcision - the flesh can be circumcised and the heart uncircumcised, and the heart can be circumcised and the flesh uncircumcised. man cuts the flesh; God cuts the heart. man makes the body rest; God causes the heart to rest. man washes the body; God washes the heart the appearance isn't necessarily the reality: Jesus says the same about murder and adultery; the guilt of sin is in the heart even when it's not on the hands.

so here's three covenants given with three signs - Abraham given circumcision, Israel given sabbaths, the apostles given H2O baptism. are the signs necessary and/or sufficient? in the abstract, the same back-and-forth goes on in threads about baptism.
i believe: the substance is Christ, and He is all-in-all. He is the circumcision. He is the rest. He is the immersion.


it's about Jesus the Messiah, Son of God, God enfleshed, the Invisible made visible. humans come along and take the words and twist and turn them, but the Word is Amen. if we ain't got that, ain't talking bout nothin'


How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm
(1 Corinthians 14:26)

 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
Thanks posthuman. This is such an interesting conversation! I wont too much because it is quite late here, where I am and I have to go out early in the morning! I think I can see what you are saying by your analogy to dietary laws. By your analogy, is not eating bacon the same thing as saying we are saved by doing that necessarily? Where does the analogy differ from the reality of the two things being compared? Are the dietary laws to be viewed in exactly the same way as the Ten Commandments Law? Which commandments does Colossians 2 refer to? Also, Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil (Matthew 5:17) than what is the difference between destroy and fulfil as it seems many interpretations of "fulfil" are in the effect that it is said to have for us tantamount to "destroy". If it is the case that Jesus' "fulfilment" of the law meant that He does not need to manifest the law in our lives and hearts, why, in reality, do most Christians not murder, commit adultery etc but only mention that fulfilment = doing away with when it comes to the Sabbath alone whereas they would agree to upholding the other commandments?
Yes, it is pretty clear that God chose to include God's Holy Sabbath in His Ten Commandments.

From the very beginning the serpent has worked to convince folks to reject God's instructions. Jesus, as the Word, showed us in the beginning how it does this. It uses parts of God's Words and then attaches a very reasonable sounding voice to convince Eve that God didn't have her best interest at heart. It's a Fascinating example Jesus created for us.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Very cleaver to use God's Word in it's deception.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (You are Saved)
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (reject God's instructions) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Jesus placed this example there so we could know how it deceives folks.

Paul warns of the same thing in Col. 2.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Who is the Christ? Is He not the Word which became Flesh? Was not "ALL THINGS" Created by Him? So fish on Friday is a tradition of man, Lent, Halloween, Christmas, these are all religious traditions of man. Not condemning, just pointing out Biblical Truth.

But the creation of Clean and unclean animals, Holy and Unholy, this is a creation of the Christ.

Lev. 11:
44 For I am the LORD your God: (Word which became Flesh) ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

So unlike many of the man made religious traditions that are accepted in the religions of the world today, the creating of clean and unclean, Holy and Unholy are from the Christ, the Word which became Flesh.

We know the serpent uses cleverness and parts of God's Word to deceive. Paul is warning not to be fooled by the religious traditions of men, but to listen to the Christ.

Many, who come in Christ's name, preach that the Christ's instructions are not for man, that they are vain deceit, and Rudiments of the World, and "tradition of man". The serpent convinced Eve of the same thing.

Gen. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Not only did the serpent deceive Eve, but Eve then spread this same deceit to other members of God's Family. We have examples of this same deception through out the Bible. It is a strong deception and actually convinced the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time as a human, to kill Him, their own Messiah, thinking they were serving Him.

This deception is nothing to mess with.

Paul is warning about such a deception in Col. 2. He knew that the Mainstream God of Abraham Preachers of his time were deceiving people. He knew they didn't believe in the Law and Prophets, and actually persecuted anyone who did, including him after his conversion.

Acts 24:.14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

This is why Paul honored God's Sabbaths including "Feast of Unleavened Bread".

1 cor. 5:
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is why Paul said not to let anyone judge you in your obedience to the Great Christ.

Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

These instructions come directly from the Word which became Flesh and are not man made doctrines or tradition.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The Jews, who had rejected God's instructions and created their own, were working to deceive the Gentiles, Galatians, and Colossians. Paul is telling us to "Beware" that they, through cleaver philosophy and vain deceit, "Spoil us" or make us rotten.

There are those who preach that this is telling folks to reject God's instructions. That the Word's of the Word which became flesh are "Vain deceit" and "Rudiments of the World". I don't think the Bible supports this teaching.

It seems you have a healthy grasp of the scriptures M, good for you.

I'm sure you know what Jesus said about what defiles us.

Matt. 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, these things come from within and defile a man.

These things are vain deceit, tradition of men, rudiments of the World. But the Word's of the Word which became Flesh lasts forever.

Is. 66:
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Great Post M :)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Because Christ said so. You are not even reading my replies, you just keep parroting the same thing. I am done here. :cool:
I am reading your responses. I am simply asking you to reconcile that fact that the word dawn is used, with a meaning of sunup, or first light to be exact. now, let's see, since Sabbath ended at sundown, the light would be fading , not coming right?

I am sorry, I cannot just throw out definitions of words, or the fact that is not one N.T. command to keep the Sabbath, to accept your relgion.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,073
2,949
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Yes, it is pretty clear that God chose to include God's Holy Sabbath in His Ten Commandments.

From the very beginning the serpent has worked to convince folks to reject God's instructions. Jesus, as the Word, showed us in the beginning how it does this. It uses parts of God's Words and then attaches a very reasonable sounding voice to convince Eve that God didn't have her best interest at heart. It's a Fascinating example Jesus created for us.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Very cleaver to use God's Word in it's deception.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (You are Saved)
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (reject God's instructions) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Jesus placed this example there so we could know how it deceives folks.

Paul warns of the same thing in Col. 2.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Who is the Christ? Is He not the Word which became Flesh? Was not "ALL THINGS" Created by Him? So fish on Friday is a tradition of man, Lent, Halloween, Christmas, these are all religious traditions of man. Not condemning, just pointing out Biblical Truth.

But the creation of Clean and unclean animals, Holy and Unholy, this is a creation of the Christ.

Lev. 11:
44 For I am the LORD your God: (Word which became Flesh) ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

So unlike many of the man made religious traditions that are accepted in the religions of the world today, the creating of clean and unclean, Holy and Unholy are from the Christ, the Word which became Flesh.

We know the serpent uses cleverness and parts of God's Word to deceive. Paul is warning not to be fooled by the religious traditions of men, but to listen to the Christ.

Many, who come in Christ's name, preach that the Christ's instructions are not for man, that they are vain deceit, and Rudiments of the World, and "tradition of man". The serpent convinced Eve of the same thing.

Gen. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Not only did the serpent deceive Eve, but Eve then spread this same deceit to other members of God's Family. We have examples of this same deception through out the Bible. It is a strong deception and actually convinced the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time as a human, to kill Him, their own Messiah, thinking they were serving Him.

This deception is nothing to mess with.

Paul is warning about such a deception in Col. 2. He knew that the Mainstream God of Abraham Preachers of his time were deceiving people. He knew they didn't believe in the Law and Prophets, and actually persecuted anyone who did, including him after his conversion.

Acts 24:.14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

This is why Paul honored God's Sabbaths including "Feast of Unleavened Bread".

1 cor. 5:
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is why Paul said not to let anyone judge you in your obedience to the Great Christ.

Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

These instructions come directly from the Word which became Flesh and are not man made doctrines or tradition.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The Jews, who had rejected God's instructions and created their own, were working to deceive the Gentiles, Galatians, and Colossians. Paul is telling us to "Beware" that they, through cleaver philosophy and vain deceit, "Spoil us" or make us rotten.

There are those who preach that this is telling folks to reject God's instructions. That the Word's of the Word which became flesh are "Vain deceit" and "Rudiments of the World". I don't think the Bible supports this teaching.

It seems you have a healthy grasp of the scriptures M, good for you.

I'm sure you know what Jesus said about what defiles us.

Matt. 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, these things come from within and defile a man.

These things are vain deceit, tradition of men, rudiments of the World. But the Word's of the Word which became Flesh lasts forever.

Is. 66:
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Great Post M :)
and what did Christ say ? whosoever believes in Me shall be saved?

your response to a young lady doing that very thing was to mock it.

keep up all the lecturing and deconstructing and reconstructing of Scripture you want, you displayed your true colors by you words.

I do not care to interact with you after that shameful display of disregard of salvation by faith in Christ alone, but I will point it out so others can know what you really think of the Cross and the Blood. you throw it away to go worship on the alter of the Sabbath, your idol.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,781
513
113
it was a command for the nation of Israel only. it was never commanded for gentiles. we are to take a day of rest, as God the father instituted in the Creation, but non-jews were never under the Sabbath command.
I hear this often, that God is a God of the Hebrews, not for us who are somehow different in God's eyes. Yet, over and over those Hebrews you say that God spoke to exclusively were told to include all men who wanted to join with them, that what God said was for them also.

What is your scripture backup for your idea that God doesn't include us in His care and instructions?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,073
2,949
113
I hear this often, that God is a God of the Hebrews, not for us who are somehow different in God's eyes. Yet, over and over those Hebrews you say that God spoke to exclusively were told to include all men who wanted to join with them, that what God said was for them also.

What is your scripture backup for your idea that God doesn't include us in His care and instructions?
mount of transfiguration . God the Father came down and said of the Son " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. hear Him!

this elevates and separates the words of the Son, the words in red, from and over the O.T.

the truth of the Trinity on display here.