Salvation includes deliverance “from the wrath to come”
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which part though 18th word of revelation 14:1 #2192 Strong's Greek: 2192. ἔχω; (echó) -- to have, hold ???
They would not have written the name of G-d,J---s,H.S. or any "sacred name" or what they deemed "sacred" it would be "abbreviated with a line over it" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacrahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra
That's what I'm thinking - but I'm getting bored with it now though.....
I'm saying that when the Greek mellein was interpreted they did not choose a literal rendition, neither do most of the English versions.
If they believe the resurrection occurs at the "end of the world" then this is going to affect how they translate some words that relate to it.
The concordant literal version shows the resurrection as "impending":
Acts 24:15 having an expectation in God, which these themselves also are anticipating, that there shall be a resurrection which is impending for both the just and the unjust.
If they believe the resurrection occurs at the "end of the world" then this is going to affect how they translate some words that relate to it.
The concordant literal version shows the resurrection as "impending":
Acts 24:15 having an expectation in God, which these themselves also are anticipating, that there shall be a resurrection which is impending for both the just and the unjust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Laudianus the oldest text we know of that has Acts is in Latin with a corresponding Greek equivalent so how would you determine that? What fragment did Young use or are you using?
that would be a strange thing indeed for Paul to be standing in front of Ananias the high priest,the elders and Felix the governor and quote Daniel 12:2 to them but after changing the tense,seems like Ananias and the elders would have noticed he changed if from going to happen to "about to happen"...
I don't know any Latin, and I don't use fragments and probably Young didn't either.
I can point you to an accepted text here:
Acts 24:15 - Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek-English Interlinear
I can point you to an accepted text here:
Acts 24:15 - Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek-English Interlinear
Nothing strange about it sosandso - all the letters in the NT give signs of unmistakable evidence of imminence.
James 5:9 (NASB) Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.
Seems James and Paul present the same message.
What is strange is that these things don't grab any attention.
James 5:9 (NASB) Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.
Seems James and Paul present the same message.
What is strange is that these things don't grab any attention.
It's the beauty of being outside the camps you see I'm not a futurist,or prterit,nor disp. ect.ect. but I am a good student. Now I notice that most are convinced they are the ones who are correct but in the end actually only end up providing their gut instinct as to things.
There is nothing in any of the internet forms that are being debated that were not the very same debates from the 1800's or the ad3-400's it all boils down to the pre/future thing. After so many years went by and the protestant movement(?) began the very same old issues sprang right back up and here we go again,lol.
I don't see you as any type enemy to me. I don't agree with every thing you say,lol. When I was younger I was quite vocal about my opinions on these same matters but as I got older I saw that it was really just my own opinion the same as the rest in theirs. Now I would really hate to "play teacher",and lead anyone astray in something that I thought was correct and was not hence you rarely ever see me state my position in certain areas of eschatology. That is I think it good not to injure any of you with my tongues pride.
As for salvation because you believe Jesus came and died for us and he is our saviour I suppose what we might differ on as to the fine details in eschatology and the same as the disciples not understanding Jesus would be slain and in the grave then resurrected. Jesus still loved them even though they did not know those fine details. And in the same when the Thessalonians were confused about if the return and resurrection had already come and if they missed it they were not cast away but instead handled with love. Remember Peter was told "nothing doubting" and the 12 and the elders having to reason through what was going on in Acts15,,,eschatology stumps us all at times and I notice we are still loved by Jesus our Lord.
Any way though it is interesting to talk to you,I rather well enjoy it in that even though you hold to full preterism you will be honest and say that their are some things you cant explain. lol,outside the camps at first it was cold and lonely,and then it became comfortable like Joshua 5:14,,,
There is nothing in any of the internet forms that are being debated that were not the very same debates from the 1800's or the ad3-400's it all boils down to the pre/future thing. After so many years went by and the protestant movement(?) began the very same old issues sprang right back up and here we go again,lol.
I don't see you as any type enemy to me. I don't agree with every thing you say,lol. When I was younger I was quite vocal about my opinions on these same matters but as I got older I saw that it was really just my own opinion the same as the rest in theirs. Now I would really hate to "play teacher",and lead anyone astray in something that I thought was correct and was not hence you rarely ever see me state my position in certain areas of eschatology. That is I think it good not to injure any of you with my tongues pride.
As for salvation because you believe Jesus came and died for us and he is our saviour I suppose what we might differ on as to the fine details in eschatology and the same as the disciples not understanding Jesus would be slain and in the grave then resurrected. Jesus still loved them even though they did not know those fine details. And in the same when the Thessalonians were confused about if the return and resurrection had already come and if they missed it they were not cast away but instead handled with love. Remember Peter was told "nothing doubting" and the 12 and the elders having to reason through what was going on in Acts15,,,eschatology stumps us all at times and I notice we are still loved by Jesus our Lord.
Any way though it is interesting to talk to you,I rather well enjoy it in that even though you hold to full preterism you will be honest and say that their are some things you cant explain. lol,outside the camps at first it was cold and lonely,and then it became comfortable like Joshua 5:14,,,
This is not really any type of magic. In fact it seemed that way to me at first. A friend of mine explained it to me so to speak by walking me through the path.
We took a fragment. At first it looks like an piece of the forest without any definite lines so it can camouflage it's self,lol. Then if you can spot a word,by a word I mean if your lucky a whole word and then maybe a few letters of the next word. In any case it is always by far easier that is if you know the book, chapter approx.verse it's way easier,lol. If not,,,
ok,if not,,,then your going to need to know that language enough to see things like "thiNGS Like" where the capitol "NGS L" fell in aspect to the rest of the fragment. Like someone threw the paper back at the paper boy and missed and it took a piece out of your paper on your porch that morning.
There's the complicated part. If you can master this,,,then if any of you are street savvy at the internet stuff then hit google,search interlinear/text,pull up the original text(research oldest known manuscript,fragment,text,ect.) and match those little half words that were torn out of the newspaper.
Anything in Greek that is sacred(think Jewish=cannot write or say aloud) will have a line drawn over it between certain time frames(confusing yes but you are looking at 1st cen. so it will?),,,
This will work on any and every fragment in approx. 1st century Greek,+- (different sacred name symbols in Hebrew,ect.) It is not magic,,,so to speak ken is yes and lo is no.
We took a fragment. At first it looks like an piece of the forest without any definite lines so it can camouflage it's self,lol. Then if you can spot a word,by a word I mean if your lucky a whole word and then maybe a few letters of the next word. In any case it is always by far easier that is if you know the book, chapter approx.verse it's way easier,lol. If not,,,
ok,if not,,,then your going to need to know that language enough to see things like "thiNGS Like" where the capitol "NGS L" fell in aspect to the rest of the fragment. Like someone threw the paper back at the paper boy and missed and it took a piece out of your paper on your porch that morning.
There's the complicated part. If you can master this,,,then if any of you are street savvy at the internet stuff then hit google,search interlinear/text,pull up the original text(research oldest known manuscript,fragment,text,ect.) and match those little half words that were torn out of the newspaper.
Anything in Greek that is sacred(think Jewish=cannot write or say aloud) will have a line drawn over it between certain time frames(confusing yes but you are looking at 1st cen. so it will?),,,
This will work on any and every fragment in approx. 1st century Greek,+- (different sacred name symbols in Hebrew,ect.) It is not magic,,,so to speak ken is yes and lo is no.
I agree. This is no end of Planet Earth taught. An end to Israel is taught and indeed happened in 70 AD. In many places the "earth" is referring to Israel. There are other passages which seem to indicate our planet, "Earth" going on forever, or at least for a very long time.
Ecc 1:4: One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.
Psm 78:69: And He built His sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which He has established forever.
Psm 104:5: You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever...
The word, "forever" can sometimes denote a very long period of time.
AB is fond of showing us little things that suggest a continuation of time after 70AD which only bolsters our position. Life does continue on this planet. But we have no direct prophesy of any specific event that is in the future on this planet. At least I haven't found one.
Ecc 1:4: One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.
Psm 78:69: And He built His sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which He has established forever.
Psm 104:5: You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever...
The word, "forever" can sometimes denote a very long period of time.
AB is fond of showing us little things that suggest a continuation of time after 70AD which only bolsters our position. Life does continue on this planet. But we have no direct prophesy of any specific event that is in the future on this planet. At least I haven't found one.
AB,
On or about Aug 30, 70 AD. Jesus says 4 times in the Book of John, they He will, "raise (them) up on 'the last day.'" He was referring to the last day of Israel and the Mosaic Age.
Wrong ascension. Paul was citing Psm 68:18 in that passage. If you look at Psm 68 and pick up the context you see this:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The chariots of God are twenty thousand, Even thousands of thousands; The Lord is among them as in Sinai, in the Holy Place. [SUP]18 [/SUP]You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive; You have received gifts among men, Even from the rebellious, That the Lord God might dwell there.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Blessed be the Lord, Who daily loads us with benefits, The God of our salvation! Selah [SUP]20 [/SUP]Our God is the God of salvation; And to GOD the Lord belong escapes from death.
There were no chariots recorded upon Christ's first ascension following His resurrection. However, Josephus records chariots in the sky above Jerusalem and surrounding the city during the siege. Additionally, notice the use of "salvation?" When does salvation come? According to the writer of Hebrews, it's upon His second appearance.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
We also have this passage from Jude:
“Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds...
Judgment was executed in 70 AD, not during the first advent.
Study the end of 1 Cor 15 carefully. What change is taking place, to whom and when?
Since 70 AD ish. Each in our own order. We have countless stories from those who went through near death experiences, seeing their loved ones, and Jesus in Heaven. They did not get a glimpse of Hades.
On or about Aug 30, 70 AD. Jesus says 4 times in the Book of John, they He will, "raise (them) up on 'the last day.'" He was referring to the last day of Israel and the Mosaic Age.
Wrong ascension. Paul was citing Psm 68:18 in that passage. If you look at Psm 68 and pick up the context you see this:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The chariots of God are twenty thousand, Even thousands of thousands; The Lord is among them as in Sinai, in the Holy Place. [SUP]18 [/SUP]You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive; You have received gifts among men, Even from the rebellious, That the Lord God might dwell there.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Blessed be the Lord, Who daily loads us with benefits, The God of our salvation! Selah [SUP]20 [/SUP]Our God is the God of salvation; And to GOD the Lord belong escapes from death.
There were no chariots recorded upon Christ's first ascension following His resurrection. However, Josephus records chariots in the sky above Jerusalem and surrounding the city during the siege. Additionally, notice the use of "salvation?" When does salvation come? According to the writer of Hebrews, it's upon His second appearance.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
We also have this passage from Jude:
“Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds...
Judgment was executed in 70 AD, not during the first advent.
Study the end of 1 Cor 15 carefully. What change is taking place, to whom and when?
Since 70 AD ish. Each in our own order. We have countless stories from those who went through near death experiences, seeing their loved ones, and Jesus in Heaven. They did not get a glimpse of Hades.
Brother AB,
When did/does Jesus bruise the head of the serpent? It was at the Cross. This was the defeat of Satan. This is why Satan tried so hard to kill Baby Jesus.
It (Planet Earth) goes on for a very long time with no end in sight, or taught. Earth (Israel) ended in 70 AD and now it's back after a brief 1,900 year hiatus.
For the wicked, yes. But remember, we are not "of this earth." We will not face the second death; only the wicked do.
What is your basis for this statement?
When did/does Jesus bruise the head of the serpent? It was at the Cross. This was the defeat of Satan. This is why Satan tried so hard to kill Baby Jesus.
It (Planet Earth) goes on for a very long time with no end in sight, or taught. Earth (Israel) ended in 70 AD and now it's back after a brief 1,900 year hiatus.
For the wicked, yes. But remember, we are not "of this earth." We will not face the second death; only the wicked do.
What is your basis for this statement?
I noticed that everyone ignored what I posted earlier from St. Ignatius writing between 105-115 AD.
9:2 how shall we be able to live apart from him, of whom even the prophets were disciples, and waited for him in the spirit as their teacher? And on this account, he whom they rightly expected, when He came, raised them from the dead.
Thus, He came, and raised the prophets from the dead - past tense. Done, by 115 AD.
9:2 how shall we be able to live apart from him, of whom even the prophets were disciples, and waited for him in the spirit as their teacher? And on this account, he whom they rightly expected, when He came, raised them from the dead.
Thus, He came, and raised the prophets from the dead - past tense. Done, by 115 AD.