Salvation is for the Whole World

[rogerg]

That's just one verse. I don't see it there either. And there are many such verses. There are also many verses that seem to say salvation is a choice.
As I look at the whole of scripture, I tend to put the greater weight with God's actions. But salvation never happens where there is no response. Neither is it designed to. Afterall, salvation is the beginning of a rich and intimate relationship with God.

There will always be a response because upon salvation, God gives us a new spirit and a new mind.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[Heb 10:16 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[Beckie]

I believe God interacts with zombies. True, they are dead spiritually, but he interacts with functioning parts and inclines them toward the cure. But they willingly drink the kool-aid.
I do understand your point of view. I do believe God enables. But the one enabled still acts. They simply react as the changes allow.
I live, yet not I; Christ liveth in me.
I live by His power, but I'm still doing the living. Otherwise, why do I need to understand the relationship between the vine and the branches?

This post brought this to mind .. The junkie who has overdosed, laying dead in sin, does not ask for naloxone his "saviour" EMT , Fireman ,Cop just gives the gift of life to the zombie guy .

 

[rogerg]

Well kids, it's not like I haven't been having fun, but I have to leave now. Queue up your
disagreements with me - of which I'm sure there are many- and I'll try to reply to them tomorrow.

 

[Cameron143]

There will always be a response because upon salvation, God gives us a new spirit and a new mind.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[Heb 10:16 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

You asked me to explain what I wrote. I did. If you are trying to inform my understanding, you are free to try. But if you only use those verses which buttress your position and ignore others that cause it to be more widely understood, you will have done us both a disservice.
Either way, I will enjoy the scriptures you proffer.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Faith is a work.

Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

Faith is not a work.

Romans 4- What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4 -13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Gal 2: 16- know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Faith is not a work!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Magenta

I did not yell at you

Yes that would be impossible to do if we arent speaking in person or by telephone

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

Faith is not a work.

Romans 4- What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4 -13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Gal 2: 16- know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Faith is not a work!

faith is when we don’t avoid what God said about the salvation of our souls in the gospel he sent to every creature , and claim it’s an unnecassary work to believe what God said will save our souls.

anything jesus said will save a person or condemn a person is true we’re suppose to hear and believe him that’s where faith comes from

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Often we try to make faith into the reason we dont need to hear and obey Gods form of it and what he says will save or condemn a person that’s not faith

 

[Magenta]

Yeah, just turned 50 on Monday, I look just like her. rofl

 

[Beckie]

Magenta

I did not yell at you

I thought i removed Magenta's name Magenta does not yell at people she posts pretty pictures

 

[Magenta]

Yes that would be impossible to do if we arent speaking in person or by telephone

Eh? I did not say that .

I thought i removed Magenta's name Magenta does not yell at people she posts pretty pictures

Oh, thank you for the correction, very kind of you .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Eh? I did not say that .
Oh, thank you for the correction, very kind of you .

I was trying to say something funny to you but then ended up replying to Beckie because I wasn't sure what she meant

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You asked me to explain what I wrote. I did. If you are trying to inform my understanding, you are free to try. But if you only use those verses which buttress your position and ignore others that cause it to be more widely understood, you will have done us both a disservice.
Either way, I will enjoy the scriptures you proffer.

Exactly this is true

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:8 KJV

But it doesn't disprove our erase anything else it's just a sentence in a letter

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Salvation is something that the Christian did not gain by merit or effort.

Salvation is not a trade for faith, though one must have faith to receive salvation.

There is no pride in receiving salvation, it is actually the opposite >> humility!

“Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God“

The natural man (1 Cor 2:14), at the time that God, by his sovereign grace, quickens him to the new spiritual life, is spiritually dead in his sins, unable to respond to spiritual things (Eph 2:1).

Spiritual responses, such as believing, receiving, confessing, praying, accepting, etc only comes from those that have been born again

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The difference is your position unwittingly asserts that faith was forced on you whether you wanted it or not.

Because to accept the grace of God is a work, according to you .

And we all know we are not saved by works...

The natural people's faith is in mankind, and their accomplishments, Spiritual faith comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It's so simple, a child can understand. I don't get why we are spinning our wheels here. We hear the Word, the Spirit draws, God saves.

Hearing spiritual things, is understanding spiritual things. The natural person cannot discern spiritual things, thinking them to be foolishness. (1 Cor 2:14). God's sheep hear and understand spiritual things, because they have been born spiritually (John 10:26-29).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes... He works on and in us so we are then capable of making the right choice to accept and believe.

Making that choice to surrender, accept and believe is not a work.

You believe that God works on and in the natural person, making them capable of choosing spiritual things, which is true, but the work that God does in the natural person, is quickening them to the new spiritual life, while they are still spiritually dead, and not capable of responding to spiritual things (Eph 2:1)

 

[PennEd]

So, you assumed I meant human logic, nope, I have studied God’s words for too long to depend upon my thinking.

But you have still failed to address the point in post 762.

That our Faith is drawn out, or activated, from internally, upon hearing the Word.

Which begs the question that has not been answered by anybody.

If our Faith isn’t gifted to us from God, WHERE did it come from?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Faith, the word we are using is faith. Faith is not meritorious, it's not a work.

The natural person's faith is in mankind, and their accomplishments. (1 Cor 2:14). Spiritual faith comes as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, when they are born again. (Eph 2:1).

 

[Sipsey]

But you have still failed to address the point in post 762.

That our Faith is drawn out, or activated, from internally, upon hearing the Word.

Which begs the question that has not been answered by anybody.

If our Faith isn’t gifted to us from God, WHERE did it come from?

Faith is a human construct. At its basic root is trust, in something or someone. Faith in and of itself has merit only if the object of that faith proves to be trustworthy. Its efficacy is in the object or target of ones faith, not in the faith itself. Faith in Scripture is portrayed as being powerful even in small quantities, if that faith is directed towards Jesus.

So, to me there is faith everywhere, even atheists have faith in their logic. It is when our faith (trust) is genuine and directed towards God that the Holy Spirit turns our mere ascent into saving faith, and we are eternally changed.

 

[Sipsey]

Faith is a human construct. At its basic root is trust, in something or someone. Faith in and of itself has merit only if the object of that faith proves to be trustworthy. Its efficacy is in the object or target of ones faith, not in the faith itself. Faith in Scripture is portrayed as being powerful even in small quantities, if that faith is directed towards Jesus.

So, to me there is faith everywhere, even atheists have faith in their logic. It is when our faith (trust) is genuine and directed towards God that the Holy Spirit turns our mere ascent into saving faith, and we are eternally changed.

The best anyone of us can do is to simply agree with God. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour.
For anyone to claim to know the exact mechanics of salvation is to deny God the Glory of His miracle, because that is what being saved by grace through faith is.

I think that a lack of understanding in the basic tenants of our faith leads to some weird theology. If grace, and faith, and predestination are not harmonized with the entirety of God”s words, then it winds up not being grace at all.