Salvation is for the Whole World

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Grace is the gift. Parse the Greek.
Grace through faith. Both are of the gift of salvation. If salvation is a gift, then everything required for
that salvation must also be part of the gift. It can't be just one if that's what you mean
because then it wouldn't be grace - each must be part of the gift in order for salvation to be a gift.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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well, that could be a great opinion but the word of God is still the word of God. Don't change it. The best commentary for Ephesian 2:8 is the writing of Paul itself when it comes to this "gift of God.". Romans 6:23 says "the Gift of God is _______________."
And you don't realize what the words you're reading actually mean. Salvation required both faith and grace, all of which were through and by God and not of ourselves. That is why He has the title of Saviour and we don't.
 
Dec 25, 2021
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Amen. Salvation has been made freely available to all who will humbly receive. The price has been paid in full.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:2
:)
Yeah, but the hearing is with spiritual ears, not human ears. Only those born-again have been so blessed as to have spiritual ears that hear.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

[Mat 11:15 KJV]
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mat 13:9, 43 KJV]
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. ...
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar
4:9, 23 KJV] 9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. ... 23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar 7:16 KJV]
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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Did you actually read my prior post to you? It seems like I've already replied to all of these points and would rather not have
to go back through them all them again unless necessary.

No, you don't have to go through it again. The Bible says faith isn't a work, the verses shared prove that.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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No, you don't have to go through it again. The Bible says faith isn't a work, the verses shared prove that.
It isn't but only because true faith is Christ's work. Should we believe faith is of ourselves and not of Christ, then it would be a work and
not true faith.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Grace through faith. Both are of the gift of salvation. If salvation is a gift, then everything required for
that salvation must also be part of the gift. It can't be just one if that's what you mean
because then it wouldn't be grace - each must be part of the gift in order for salvation to be a gift.
Your confusion knows no bounds.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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And you don't realize what the words you're reading actually mean. Salvation required both faith and grace, all of which were through and by God and not of ourselves. That is why He has the title of Saviour and we don't.
So are we now okay with what is the gift of God and that is salvation? Salvation is by grace through faith and that is the correct wording and not "through and by God and not of ourselves." as you are describing what is faith. Of course, we are trying to discuss what is the gift of God which is salvation The "not of ourselves " refers to the gift meaning to say, it's not ours. It's God, I only possessed it by faith ie. "through faith". A gift needs to be received, that's simple. And if I receive it by faith did I work for it? NO! I just received what is being presented to me
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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So are we now okay with what is the gift of God and that is salvation? Salvation is by grace through faith and that is the correct wording and not "through and by God and not of ourselves." as you are describing what is faith. Of course, we are trying to discuss what is the gift of God which is salvation The "not of ourselves " refers to the gift meaning to say, it's not ours. It's God, I only possessed it by faith ie. "through faith". A gift needs to be received, that's simple. And if I receive it by faith did I work for it? NO! I just received what is being presented to me
No, unquestionably wrong! if salvation is the gift then everything that went into bringing that gift to fruition must also be a gift including faith. The faith that brought salvation was Christ's faith(fulness) to the Father, not ours. Our faith was a gift to us and was dispensed to those born again through the fruit of the Spirit but because of Christ's faith.
Anything that someone must do to contribute to it, if it is their required contribution, makes it both a work and a law, and no one can be saved by attempting to satisfy either of those.
You are assessing the receiving of the gift in human terms, not God's terms. A spiritually dead person is incapable of themselves to receive any spiritual gift. As we are clearly informed in Jhn 6:29, true belief is solely a work of God and not of ourselves thereby making it both a work and God's work alone. I don't see how it can possibly be made any clearer than was made in that verse.

[Rev 2:13 KJV] 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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So are we now okay with what is the gift of God and that is salvation? Salvation is by grace through faith and that is the correct wording and not "through and by God and not of ourselves." as you are describing what is faith. Of course, we are trying to discuss what is the gift of God which is salvation The "not of ourselves " refers to the gift meaning to say, it's not ours. It's God, I only possessed it by faith ie. "through faith". A gift needs to be received, that's simple. And if I receive it by faith did I work for it? NO! I just received what is being presented to me
In this dogma, faith has to be a gift so that the system stays in tact, that is why they argue so strongly, it is not about scripture it is about preserving the system.

So the conversation will always go round and round and the irony is it may take a work of the God, a gift of revelation, to remove the self-inflicted blinders.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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In this dogma, faith has to be a gift so that the system stays in tact, that is why they argue so strongly, it is not about scripture it is about preserving the system.

So the conversation will always go round and round and the irony is it may take a work of the God, a gift of revelation, to remove the self-inflicted blinders.
You just believe that you have to earn your salvation one way or the other and are unable to place your trust solely in Christ
as the Saviour not and in yourself. An odd point of view for a Christian to believe the Saviour isn't really the Saviour, don't you think?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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You just believe that you have to earn your salvation one way or the other and are unable to place your trust solely in Christ
as the Saviour not and in yourself. An odd point of view for a Christian to believe the Saviour isn't really the Saviour, don't you think?

Christ is a Savior 100%

No one has stated they earn their salvation, that is the nuance you cannot seem to grasp.

Accept and earn are two different concepts.

Reminds me of the annilationists where word meanings are changed so it all lines up.

Please put me on ignore. I will pray for your blinders to be removed.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Christ is a Savior 100%

No one has stated they earn their salvation, that is the nuance you cannot seem to grasp.

Accept and earn are two different concepts.


Reminds me of the annilationists where every word means annihilate.

Please put me on ignore. I will pray for your blinders to be removed.
Will do and I will pray for you too.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Paul said because humanity can look at things God created and can reason God exists is partially one way during Judgement God can say to them you knew I was real but chose to spread lies that I never existed.

So if the NATURAL MAN is able to look at creation and reason God is real, then your entire reasoning about natural man unable to know that God exists or whatever is full of ....

Ha, I knew you were peddling horse turds.

Comical, but it is you that is spreading a false doctrine. Rom 1 is all about, those that are called of God, who have turned away from God, and hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them for God hath shewed it unto them, because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God.


These are not the natural man that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness, but these are backsliding children of God. The natural man thinks creation evolved, and that God had nothing to do with it.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I do not believe I have ever seen anyone say they manufactured their own faith.

What does that even mean? I acknowledge faith as a gift. Not something that
was forced on me, nor something I manufactured magically out of my unbelief.

The natural person, who has not been reborn spiritually, only has faith in mankind, (1 Cor 2:14), and his accomplishments. Spiritual faith only comes to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, as he indwells us in the new birth. (Gal 5:22 & Eph 12:1).