I go out of town for 3 days and come back to yet another verse on legalism and twisting of Scriptures and bad theology. If you read the Greek, you will find that this entire legalist mess of faith + works melts into a sad rejected mess of bad theology. Plus, you have totally ignored the fact that salvation is a process - which God is the one who always initiates and brings to pass.
Where is the word "legalist" in the bible?
Angela53510 said:
The key verbs for justification, works beforehand and sanctification are in the Aorist Passive tense. That means it is something that happened in the past (not our works in the present or future) and God does it to us. Learn the Greek, if you want to straighten out your mess of theology, Seabass!
If God does it all while man does nothing, then how does God decide whom He does it to and whom He does not do it to?
Angela53510 said:
Here is the Greek as follows:
NUMBER 1
Justification - made right with God.
Greek - Dikaiothentes Δικαιωθέντες, Aorist passive Participle. Aorist points to a completed action. Theologically, the passive tense indicates that God has done the action upon the subject.
Δικαιωθέντες, = having been justified! Past tense, passive. Completed action!
"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1
Or, in modern English:
"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
Martin Luther is right again! (I am not Lutheran, but he was certainly right about this!)
God is the one who justifies us, and it is a completed action, in the past tense, without works, God does it. In other words, God is sovereign!
"λογιζόμεθα γὰρ δικαιοῦσθαι πίστει ἄνθρωπον χωρὶς ἔργων νόμου." Romans 3:28
"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28
δικαιοῦσθαι - present infinitive passive - to be justified. Once again, God is the one who justifies us, not our works! Passive tense means the action is done upon us, not something we do!
In 1 Cor 6:11 both verbs "justifed" and "sanctified" are aorist past tense but that did not keep the the Corinthians from being warned they could still fall away and be lost, 1 Cor 10:12. Both verbs are in the passive voice, God did the sanctifying and justifying. The question again, how does God decide whom He will or will not justify and sanctify? Randomness?
I like parcing Greek verbs. I also like to note the order of events that take place in a context as in Rom 6:17,18...."
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
First order of events > they were servants of sins
Second order of event > they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
The last order of event > "then made free from sin (justified)
God did not justify them until
AFTER they obeyed from the heart that form of docrtine. So to answer myownquestionas to whom God doees or does nt justify? He djustifes thaose that obey Him, not the ones that disobey Him by doing nothing
Angela53510 said:
NUMBER 2
Sanctification - the process where God walks with us and we become sanctified in his service.
"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." Romans 6:22 ESV
"νυνὶ δέ, ἐλευθερωθέντες ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας δουλωθέντες δὲ τῷ θεῷ, ἔχετε τὸν καρπὸν ὑμῶν εἰς ἁγιασμόν, τὸ δὲ τέλος ζωὴν αἰώνιον." Romans 6:22 Greek
ἁγιασμός - sanctification, holiness, consecration. It refers to the process of being set apart for God's service and the development and display of HIS characteristics.
"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11
"καὶ ταῦτά τινες ἦτε· ἀλλὰ ἀπελούσασθε, ἀλλὰ ἡγιάσθητε, ἀλλὰ ἐδικαιώθητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν."
ἡγιάσθητε - Aorist, indicative Passive. From άγιάζω - Note the passive tense, which means we are set apart for the use of God, made holy, "claimed by God as his own, and made a member of His holy people BY GOD, NOT OUR OWN WORKS."
God sanctifies us, and that includes the works prepared beforehand.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10 ESV
"τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι [SUP]
[a][/SUP]
διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· [SUP]9 [/SUP]οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται. [SUP]10 [/SUP]αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα, κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν." Eph. 2:8-10
ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς - good works - the prepostion
epi ἐπὶ, indicates the goal.
προητοίμασεν - the Aorist points to a specific act that has taken place. Past tense! The preposition refers to a period before the action described in the participle.
περιπατήσωμεν - Aorist Subjunctive Active. Past tense! To walk. Or live with God. Something God has ordained from the past!
Again, whom does God sanctify and why? Whom does God
NOT sanctify and why?
2 Tim 2:21 "I
f a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
Do the ones that "do nothing" get sanctified? Or do the ones who purges himslef from sin?
And how does a man "purge himself" or "save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16 or "save yourselves" Acts 2:40 or purify your own soul, 1 Pet 1:22 ??
1 Cor 1:2 "
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus"
Sancification is only
IN CHRIST JESUS Not one verse say "doing nothing" gets one into Christ Jesus. Bpatism gets one nto Christ, Gal 3:27; Rom 6:3-6.
angla53510 said:
NUMBER 3
Glorification. Leaving this for another post! Enough info in this post already!
**The Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament by Cleon Rogers Jr. and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998.
Rom 8:17 "
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
If the Christian does not conditionally suffer with Christ, will he stillbe glorified anyway?