Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Angela53510]

SeaBass, you still have not addressed any of the exegetical issues in my post #136.

We are not justified by works, and the works we do after justification, are part of our sanctification - growing into the image of Christ.

See the post, and try and explain why all the important verbs are in the Aorist passive. A completed action in the past, which God has done to us.

If you lack the scholarly credentials to understand the Greek, I will try and simplify it for you even more.

 

[PennEd]

I have a "works mindset" for the bible teaches one cannot be saved without works. When the church began at Pentecost in Acts the people asked Peter "what shall we do". They were not commaded to "do no works" but COMMANDED to do works, repent and be baptized. It is obvious those with the "do nothing mindset" are struggling to find ways to get man saved without doing any kind of work at all.


The ones that overcome are the ones that keep Christ's works, Rev 2:26. In the context of Rev 2, Jesus commanded the church at Ephesus to "repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place" That church at Ephesus would overcome if it kept these works Christ gave them. Christ said to the church at Pergamos "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." They will overcome if they hear and do this work Christ gave them. Those at the church in Thyatira would not overcome "except they repent of their deeds" The church at Ephesus, Pegamos, and Thyatira could not just ignore what Christ told them to do and still overcome.

I will back up a few verses in 1 Jn 5 that you did not quote:

1 Jn 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

1 Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

1 Jn 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God"


Loving God means keeping His commandments. One cannot overcome cannot love God without working to obediently keep His commandments. Doing nothing = no love for God

Believing is a work, Jn 6:27-29. A biblcal belief that saves includes the works of rpeentance, conffessoin and submitting to baptism and not a dead belief only void of these obedient works. As James says, the devils believe and tremble but the devils belief only will not sve them for it is void of these obedient works.

Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

There is no rest for those without labour.

You did not address my questions. Maybe you didn't see them so i'll ask again.

Jesus himself said Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
This is how the Israelites were cured and lived from getting bit by the fiery snakes because of their sin.So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. WHAT WORK DID THEY HAVE TO DO TO BE CURED AND LIVE?

What WORK did the thief on the cross that Jesus promised would be with Him in paradise do?

There is no question that we should do all kinds of good works. That's not this issue here. The issue is that those works, or some combination of the blood of Jesus and works, can save you. NOTHING but Romans 10:9 can save you:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

If there was ANY other way than Romans 10:9 then Jesus' prayer to His Father, in Matthew 26:39, Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." means that His Father let Jesus be tortured and crucified for nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

I go out of town for 3 days and come back to yet another verse on legalism and twisting of Scriptures and bad theology. If you read the Greek, you will find that this entire legalist mess of faith + works melts into a sad rejected mess of bad theology. Plus, you have totally ignored the fact that salvation is a process - which God is the one who always initiates and brings to pass.

Where is the word "legalist" in the bible?

The key verbs for justification, works beforehand and sanctification are in the Aorist Passive tense. That means it is something that happened in the past (not our works in the present or future) and God does it to us. Learn the Greek, if you want to straighten out your mess of theology, Seabass!

If God does it all while man does nothing, then how does God decide whom He does it to and whom He does not do it to?

Here is the Greek as follows:

NUMBER 1

Justification - made right with God.
Greek - Dikaiothentes Δικαιωθέντες, Aorist passive Participle. Aorist points to a completed action. Theologically, the passive tense indicates that God has done the action upon the subject.
Δικαιωθέντες, = having been justified! Past tense, passive. Completed action!
"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1

Or, in modern English:
"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

Martin Luther is right again! (I am not Lutheran, but he was certainly right about this!)

God is the one who justifies us, and it is a completed action, in the past tense, without works, God does it. In other words, God is sovereign!

"λογιζόμεθα γὰρ δικαιοῦσθαι πίστει ἄνθρωπον χωρὶς ἔργων νόμου." Romans 3:28

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28

δικαιοῦσθαι - present infinitive passive - to be justified. Once again, God is the one who justifies us, not our works! Passive tense means the action is done upon us, not something we do!

In 1 Cor 6:11 both verbs "justifed" and "sanctified" are aorist past tense but that did not keep the the Corinthians from being warned they could still fall away and be lost, 1 Cor 10:12. Both verbs are in the passive voice, God did the sanctifying and justifying. The question again, how does God decide whom He will or will not justify and sanctify? Randomness?

I like parcing Greek verbs. I also like to note the order of events that take place in a context as in Rom 6:17,18...."But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

First order of events > they were servants of sins
Second order of event > they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
The last order of event > "then made free from sin (justified)

God did not justify them until AFTER they obeyed from the heart that form of docrtine. So to answer myownquestionas to whom God doees or does nt justify? He djustifes thaose that obey Him, not the ones that disobey Him by doing nothing

NUMBER 2

Sanctification - the process where God walks with us and we become sanctified in his service.

"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." Romans 6:22 ESV

"νυνὶ δέ, ἐλευθερωθέντες ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας δουλωθέντες δὲ τῷ θεῷ, ἔχετε τὸν καρπὸν ὑμῶν εἰς ἁγιασμόν, τὸ δὲ τέλος ζωὴν αἰώνιον." Romans 6:22 Greek

ἁγιασμός - sanctification, holiness, consecration. It refers to the process of being set apart for God's service and the development and display of HIS characteristics.

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11

"καὶ ταῦτά τινες ἦτε· ἀλλὰ ἀπελούσασθε, ἀλλὰ ἡγιάσθητε, ἀλλὰ ἐδικαιώθητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν."

ἡγιάσθητε - Aorist, indicative Passive. From άγιάζω - Note the passive tense, which means we are set apart for the use of God, made holy, "claimed by God as his own, and made a member of His holy people BY GOD, NOT OUR OWN WORKS."

God sanctifies us, and that includes the works prepared beforehand.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10 ESV

"τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι [SUP][a][/SUP]διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· [SUP]9 [/SUP]οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται. [SUP]10 [/SUP]αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα, κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν." Eph. 2:8-10

ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς - good works - the prepostion epi ἐπὶ, indicates the goal.

προητοίμασεν - the Aorist points to a specific act that has taken place. Past tense! The preposition refers to a period before the action described in the participle.
περιπατήσωμεν - Aorist Subjunctive Active. Past tense! To walk. Or live with God. Something God has ordained from the past!

Again, whom does God sanctify and why? Whom does God NOT sanctify and why?

2 Tim 2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Do the ones that "do nothing" get sanctified? Or do the ones who purges himslef from sin?

And how does a man "purge himself" or "save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16 or "save yourselves" Acts 2:40 or purify your own soul, 1 Pet 1:22 ??

1 Cor 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus"



Sancification is only IN CHRIST JESUS Not one verse say "doing nothing" gets one into Christ Jesus. Bpatism gets one nto Christ, Gal 3:27; Rom 6:3-6.

NUMBER 3

Glorification. Leaving this for another post! Enough info in this post already!

**The Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament by Cleon Rogers Jr. and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998.

Rom 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

If the Christian does not conditionally suffer with Christ, will he stillbe glorified anyway?

 

[SeaBass]

Wow!! I knew a lot of that but the way it was explained was just amazing!
It was very long though.. :/ but I gotta say it was so worth the time.
I like how its worded. Makes it easy for someone like me to understand.
Once again thank you!!!

At one point in the article it says: (my emp)


James 2:24. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

So James has done a pretty good job refuting the objector. He has clearly shown that there is a connection between faith and works. While it is true that works do not really reveal what a person believes, works are intimately connected with faith for works help faith mature. Works energize our faith. Works make our faith vibrant


So my question; so can a man NEVER DO ANY WORKS his entire life yet still be saved? The article say a man cannot even have faith without works...tha' "works are intimately conncected with faith"......it's proving MY point.

 

[SeaBass]

But the questions are for you to answer.

It's hard to get someone saved and remained saved WITHOUT ever doing any kind of works isn't it?

Nothing is too hard for Jesus!

Jesus never taught "do nothing and thou shalt be saved"..

Jesus did teach one had to do the works of believing, Jn 8:24; Jn 6:27-29, repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to water baptism, Mk 16:16.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

At one point in the article it says: (my emp)


James 2:24. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

So James has done a pretty good job refuting the objector. He has clearly shown that there is a connection between faith and works. While it is true that works do not really reveal what a person believes, works are intimately connected with faith for works help faith mature. Works energize our faith. Works make our faith vibrant


So my question; so can a man NEVER DO ANY WORKS his entire life yet still be saved? The article say a man cannot even have faith without works...tha' "works are intimately conncected with faith"......it's proving MY point.

SeaBass, "work" must be DEFINED. If you believe that going to your job to support your family is you demonstrating your faith, then so be it. But to condemn everyone else is wrong. I SAY AGAIN THAT MOST PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD CANNOT DO THE SAME! Do not base your belief in the "American dream".

 

[SeaBass]

The work of God is to believe upon the name of the Son of God. That is first and foremost and that work is accomplished by God in the heart of the individual through the preaching of the gospel. This is how we are called by grace to believe upon the name of the one whom God has sent. When we respond to that call of God and believe by faith, the work it took to get us to that place of faith has just begun and will continue until the day of redemption of our bodies. When you begin down this road of a 'work based faith' that is shouldered by the believer to secure his eternal redemption you assume that God is not able to keep that believer. Justification is by grace and through faith in the finished work of Christ with nothing added to it. No one can add to justification or to the righteousness of God that is imputed to the believer through faith. For the rest of the believer's life he is under the mighty hand of God and that is a fearful thing. He will either be humble or humbled by the hand of God. If he is proud he will be resisted and if he is humble he will be given grace and exalted.

This has nothing to do with doing any work for God, it is an issue of the heart to get the believer in a place where they can grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. In some cases it may take a lifetime for God to establish their heart in grace because of the flesh, deep seated pride and strongholds that exist in the heart. God usually has his way so that he can present that believer without spot or wrinkle. You and I can not judge what God is doing in the heart through what we see outwardly. Our faith is given unto us that we might have hope and not given to us to judge others and their works. You might say as James did that he will show you his faith by his works (and that is true).... but God will show you His work done in the heart when a man is reduced to nothing but faith in the living God through His exceedingly great and precious promises and that is a 'work of faith'.

You first sentence says "The work of God is to believe upon the name of the Son of God."

God does not believe for man, belief is a work that came from God that God has given man to do.

Jn 6:28 They asked Jesus "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" They aksed what work THEY do not what work God does for them or in them. Jesus gave them the work of believing for them to do.

If God does the work of believing in the person, then how does God decide whom He will or will not perform this work in? Randomness?

Another issue is what does it mean to believe as in Jn 3:16 "he that believeth"? Believing is not a mere mental assent of themind but a work. In places in the NT believe is used as a synecdoche, a figure of speech where the part stands for the whole. For example in 1 Pet 3:21 peter sys baptism saves, but he did not say baptism alone saves. Therefore baptism is the part that stands for the whole believing repenting and confessing.


Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together, and had all things common;"


In vese 41 those that accepted Peters words were baptized. Conversely those that rejected his words rejected being baptized.


So who are the ones that are said to have "believed" in v44....the ones in 41 that werre baptized or not baptized? Of course the ones said to have 'believed' in v44 are the ones that were bptized in v41 so we have "believed" in v44 used as a synecdoche were it INCLUDES bbeing baptized.

[[It can also be taken from this context in Acts 2:41 that one has not accepted the gospel words until he has been baptized]]

 

[SeaBass]

2 Corinthians 13:5-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.


7 Now I pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved, but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified.


Sorry, but as the saying goes, "lack of evidence is not evidence of absence." Or, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" Atheist's use this line of reasoning for the existence of God, they don't see evidence therefore He doesnt exist. But that isn't the case.

No, you are trying to cloud or avoid the issue.

dcontroversial posted "Works do not save, works do not help us get and or keep us saved.....works are evidence of being saved"

Straight forward question: Can a Christian NOT do those evidential works and yet be saved???

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

No, you are trying to cloud or avoid the issue.

dcontroversial posted "Works do not save, works do not help us get and or keep us saved.....works are evidence of being saved"

Straight forward question: Can a Christian NOT do those evidential works and yet be saved???

Yes. God will save all on His name alone!

 

[SeaBass]

If the blind lead the blind do they not both fall into the ditch?

Paul said of his kinsmen Israel that they go about to establish their own righteousness but they miss the righteousness of God in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Rom 10:3 is a verse I dealt with earlier in this thread.

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God"


This one verse speaks or 2 different types of works:

The first owrk it speaks of is the works the jewsd were doing in going about to establish their OWN righteous (doing their OWN contrasted to doing GOD'S righteousness) They were doig works of meirt trying to earn thier salvation.

The second work Paul speaks of in this verse that thedoes save and that the Jews should have been doing is SUBMIT (OBEY) the rightoeusnes (comamndments) of God.


So this one verse speaks of 2 different types of works, works of meirt that does not save and obeying God's commandments that DOES save.

You have to be able to see that there is a difference between one doing his OWN works and obeying GOD'S commandments.

 

[SeaBass]

Depends on the context. What difference does it make to you? Have you been designated to condemn those who do not measure up to your standard? The Lord pondereth the hearts of men.

By what measure you measure others you will be measured.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

dcontroversial posted "grace+faith=biblical salvation--->produces works"


Straight forward question: can a Christian be saved WITHOUT doing these "produced works"???

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, you still have not addressed any of the exegetical issues in my post #136.

We are not justified by works, and the works we do after justification, are part of our sanctification - growing into the image of Christ.

See the post, and try and explain why all the important verbs are in the Aorist passive. A completed action in the past, which God has done to us.

If you lack the scholarly credentials to understand the Greek, I will try and simplify it for you even more.

see post #183.

 

[Pres19]

Hi,

You posted "Because we believe this we want to do works for the Lord."

The issue is, can a Christian NOT do those for the Lord yet still be saved?


You posted "To have faith is to want to do works for God because we Love him."

Again, can the Christian NOT want to do works for God yet still be saved?

Well I'm not sure how to answer that... but I can say I feel about it..well I can try to explain it anyhow ..

I believe in a way without works you aren't really saved.. only because if you were you'd do these works just because of your faith.
If someone who is saved doesn't do good works then chances are they will start to do bad works..start turning from God...then lose all faith
I believe doing works can't save you. But once you're saved you should do works to keep your faith strong.
To me, to do works doesn't mean you're saved.

Sorry I know the way I word things can be confusing. And I can't really answer your question (I'm not someone who knows the bible well enough to give you a good biblical answer.) I just tell my feelings on the matter

But if I may I'd like to ask you these things.
If you feel like answering them keep in mind I'm asking how you feel. Not what you read..what you have been told. But what you feel in your own heart.
1- Do you feel if you're not doing works for God then you aren't saved?
2- Do you feel works are needed?
3- Even if you can still be saved by not doing works does that mean you'll stop doin them?

The way I see it.. we all know we need to be saved.
We all know we need to do good works (for whatever reason you feel they are needed for)
So does it really matter if a Christian can still be saved with out works?
To me it doesn't matter.. we should do Good works no matter what.

 

[SeaBass]

You did not address my questions. Maybe you didn't see them so i'll ask again.

Jesus himself said Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
This is how the Israelites were cured and lived from getting bit by the fiery snakes because of their sin.So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. WHAT WORK DID THEY HAVE TO DO TO BE CURED AND LIVE?

What WORK did the thief on the cross that Jesus promised would be with Him in paradise do?

There is no question that we should do all kinds of good works. That's not this issue here. The issue is that those works, or some combination of the blood of Jesus and works, can save you. NOTHING but Romans 10:9 can save you:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

If there was ANY other way than Romans 10:9 then Jesus' prayer to His Father, in Matthew 26:39, Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." means that His Father let Jesus be tortured and crucified for nothing.

They could not sit and do nothing have someone else bring the bronze serpent to them and put it before their eyes. They had to go and look upon the serpent themselves.

Secondly, I do not see the serpent as an OT type and Christ a NT anti-type to that serpent.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well I'm not sure how to answer that... but I can say I feel about it..well I can try to explain it anyhow ..

I believe in a way without works you aren't really saved.. only because if you were you'd do these works just because of your faith.
If someone who is saved doesn't do good works then chances are they will start to do bad works..start turning from God...then lose all faith
I believe doing works can't save you. But once you're saved you should do works to keep your faith strong.
To me, to do works doesn't mean you're saved.

Sorry I know the way I word things can be confusing. And I can't really answer your question (I'm not someone who knows the bible well enough to give you a good biblical answer.) I just tell my feelings on the matter

But if I may I'd like to ask you these things.
If you feel like answering them keep in mind I'm asking how you feel. Not what you read..what you have been told. But what you feel in your own heart.
1- Do you feel if you're not doing works for God then you aren't saved?
2- Do you feel works are needed?
3- Even if you can still be saved by not doing works does that mean you'll stop doin them?

The way I see it.. we all know we need to be saved.
We all know we need to do good works (for whatever reason you feel they are needed for)
So does it really matter if a Christian can still be saved with out works?
To me it doesn't matter.. we should do Good works no matter what.

Presley:

Ephesians 2.10 says 'We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has beforehand ordained that we should walk in them'.

The very previous verse says that to those who are saved by grace through faith it is 'not of works, lest anyone should boast' (Ephesians 2.9).

There is false doctrine about which tends only to confuse people, but it's good simply to follow what passages such as Ephesians 2 clearly say.

Blessings.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, "work" must be DEFINED. If you believe that going to your job to support your family is you demonstrating your faith, then so be it. But to condemn everyone else is wrong. I SAY AGAIN THAT MOST PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD CANNOT DO THE SAME! Do not base your belief in the "American dream".

I would simply define work as doing some thing, an act, exertion, perform


1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel"

Providing for my house means I must work. CAn I get by without doing the secular work thereby NOT provide for my ownhouse yet still be saved denying the faith and worse than an infidel? No. For it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to go thru his entire life WITHOUT doing some type of work and yet still be saved.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes. God will save all on His name alone!

Universalism is not taught in the bible.


God will not save those that "obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ", 2 Thess 1:8... if He does then He lies breaking this promise .

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

I would simply define work as doing some thing, an act, exertion, perform


1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel"

Providing for my house means I must work. CAn I get by without doing the secular work thereby NOT provide for my ownhouse yet still be saved denying the faith and worse than an infidel? No. For it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to go thru his entire life WITHOUT doing some type of work and yet still be saved.

If your definition is true, then what about the parents of the 30,000 children who die EVERYDAY because of things like starvation? They cannot find a job if they wanted to. Are these people not saved?

 

[SeaBass]

Well I'm not sure how to answer that... but I can say I feel about it..well I can try to explain it anyhow ..

I believe in a way without works you aren't really saved.. only because if you were you'd do these works just because of your faith.
If someone who is saved doesn't do good works then chances are they will start to do bad works..start turning from God...then lose all faith
I believe doing works can't save you. But once you're saved you should do works to keep your faith strong.
To me, to do works doesn't mean you're saved.

Sorry I know the way I word things can be confusing. And I can't really answer your question (I'm not someone who knows the bible well enough to give you a good biblical answer.) I just tell my feelings on the matter

But if I may I'd like to ask you these things.
If you feel like answering them keep in mind I'm asking how you feel. Not what you read..what you have been told. But what you feel in your own heart.
1- Do you feel if you're not doing works for God then you aren't saved?
2- Do you feel works are needed?
3- Even if you can still be saved by not doing works does that mean you'll stop doin them?

The way I see it.. we all know we need to be saved.
We all know we need to do good works (for whatever reason you feel they are needed for)
So does it really matter if a Christian can still be saved with out works?
To me it doesn't matter.. we should do Good works no matter what.

So you are in agreement with me that it is IMPOSSBILE for YOU to live your entire life and NEVER do ANY TYPE of work yet still be saved...correct?




1- if I am not doing obedeiently working God's commandments, I do not love God, Jn 14:15,21 mush less should Iexpect to be saved.

2 - Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" So ifI have any desire to be saved I better do works in obeying Christ. Reding yourpost above YOU feel works are needed....


You posted "I believe in a way without works you aren't really saved."


You also posted "I believe doing works can't save you. But once you're saved you should do works to keep your faith strong".

I have been willing in this thread to ASSSUME for a moment "Joe" can be saved by faith alone/no works. So my question is can Joe NOT do those works that keeps his faith strong and still be saved? Remember you already said "without works you aren't really saved".

So AFTER Joe has ALREADY BECOME a Christian, can Christian Joe do NO works at all as a Christian yet still be saved?


3 - My queston is can one AFTER he saved do NO WORKS AT ALL and yet still be saved? Please answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no' and we can get to the bottom line of this thread quickly.

 

[Pres19]

Just a thought..

We as Christians tend to over think things.
When this happens it just makes a mess.
If we know doing good works pleases our Father does it really matter why we do them? ( yes I know in a way it does..we shouldn't do them thinkin God will give us something in return.)
Shouldnt it be enough just to know works are needed and do them because we know they are needed regardless of why we need to?
Sorry its just a thought. I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts and their ceases on the mater. And by no means am I trying to say what's right or wrong. I just wanna know if I have the wrong/right mindset on this. I'm still learning myself so please be patient with me.