Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

No, I am interpreting repentance as it was intended. and not trying to make it some legalistic feel sorry for your sin stuff, which is not found in scripture.

You can not change of your not born again, this is biblical fact. if you think you can, You do not understand the dead spirit all people have before they come to christ.

As God said, the things of God are foolishness to those who are not his.

If your not saved, not born again, and not adopted as his hildren due to forgiveness of sin, The things of God are foolish to you. Those are gods words, not mine

You are not accepting repentance as the bible teaches it for it goes against your personal beliefs.

When you suggest the practicing homosexual can be saved then sometime after he is already saved as a practicing homosexual he can then repent of that sin, you totally out of touch with what the bible teaches. God's word does not teach this kind of "foolishness".

 

[SeaBass]

nope. he was healed by his faith. give it up dude, if that was the case, no one would be healed until they did work forst. yet most of the time, Jesus healed, then said go and sin no more.

Your argument is based on a false premise. since it did not happen every time.

Did his faith include the work of dipping 7 times in the river? Yes it did, a little detail you will not admit.

Was his healing by grace? Yes it was> So did his work of dipping mean he earned the grace? No it did not.

So you still have not refuted a single one.

 

[newbirth]

if you want them to change to be saved, It will never happen.

They need to be saved to be given the power to change.

one needs to repent of sins to be saved....salvation is in Christ how are you getting in Christ with sin?
Christ died to save us from sin ,not to save us in sin.....
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Psalm 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.



Ezekiel 33:19
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

 

[Hoffco]

The Bible speaks of salvation and saved in a narrow sense and a broad sense, In the narrow sense, God alone saves, Titus3:5b "He saved us, through the washing of water and the renewing of the Holy Spirit," 5a,"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,..." our good works came from the new birth, but were not the cause of the new birth. Paul does not deny our "good works, 6 times in Titus , Paul tells us to do, we will do, to maintain good works, zealous of good works, etc; But, the good works come from the new birth. BUT, in the broad sense, salvation is the result of good works: Gal.6:8b "but he who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life." IF, we keep building fences between, separating the trues of God, we will never see the unity, in the diversity, in the paradox, of the Bible. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Joidevivre]

"his faith however wasn't without any works - he believed, and confessed with his mouth, and these are not non-actions."
I like those words - it has been a work to even hold unto my faith at times. It is work to just not speak doubt. It is work to keep myself from fear and not let go of faith. It is work to have faith when you have lost everything yet still believe that God is in control. Faith is indeed a work. That shield of faith does get heavy sometimes and its work just to keep it high before our eyes and the eyes of the enemy. I work my faith every time I pray. And trust.

All the other "works" I do is from inspiration from the Holy Spirit and just allowing Him to do his work through me.

 

[Torrence]

I say that for it is not possible for something to be alone and not alone at the same time.

Eph 2:8 does NOT say saved by grace ALONE through faith ALONE. That would be a contradictory statement.

The word "alone" is an exclusionary word, it excludes everything else.

So if salvation was by "faith ALONE" then that excludes everything from savlation that is not faith...."faith alone" therefore excludes grace.

If salvation was by grace alone, then that excludes everything else from savlation that is not grace...."grace alone" therefore excludes faith.


As someone else once put it, if "Faith" and "Grace" were the names of two women, can a man be married to "Grace alone" and "Faith alone" at the same time? No, for he can only be married to only one woman alone at the same time.

Well it sounds like you'd be marrying Grace alone through Faith alone... You didn't marry Faith, she led you to your wife Grace.

 

[SeaBass]

Well it sounds like you'd be marrying Grace alone through Faith alone... You didn't marry Faith, she led you to your wife Grace.

The point I am making is that salvation by "faith alone through grace alone" is not possible. It's an often repeated but contradictory statement.

 

[posthuman]

Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?

(Job 41:11, Romans 11:35)


it is abundantly clear that we are not saved in order to continue in sin or disobedience.
it is also abundantly clear that His precious gift & redemption are by no means earned, deserved, or bought by any work, ritual, or keeping of law.
we are saved by grace, not works, lest any man should boast.

 

[SeaBass]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html


Naaman was healed by grace but that grace was conditional upon Naaman doing the work of going and dipping in the river 7 times. Naaman's work earned him nothing but was a necessary condition God put upon His grace.

No work = no reception of grace.

 

[royalscot]

You are not accepting repentance as the bible teaches it for it goes against your personal beliefs.

When you suggest the practicing homosexual can be saved then sometime after he is already saved as a practicing homosexual he can then repent of that sin, you totally out of touch with what the bible teaches. God's word does not teach this kind of "foolishness".

when was a gentile to repent from a law that was given to a gentile, but to a jewish nation.. and if you read the law , why are you, high lighting sin, even a fool knows if your read the bible, you commit, one sin , you break them all. foolishness come in many shapes and forms. the full law to a jewish people you need a temple. when you work this out. who are you going to call.
alas the new covenent.

 

[Jackson123]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html


Naaman was healed by grace but that grace was conditional upon Naaman doing the work of going and dipping in the river 7 times. Naaman's work earned him nothing but was a necessary condition God put upon His grace.

No work = no reception of grace.

why Naaman going to the river and dipping 7 time?

Because He has a faith.

Question:

1. Is dipping 7 time in the river cure people form leprosy? If so let every body that has leprosy dipping 7 time in the river.

2. Or faith that cure him?

 

[SeaBass]

why Naaman going to the river and dipping 7 time?

Because He has a faith.

Question:

1. Is dipping 7 time in the river cure people form leprosy? If so let every body that has leprosy dipping 7 time in the river.

2. Or faith that cure him?

He had to dip in the river for grace required it and his faith included that work for "faith alone" would never procured grace-healing.

1) it was for Naaman because of God's grace.
2) his cure was a combination of his (1) obedient faith and (2) God's grace. He could never been healed without 1 or 2.

 

[SeaBass]

when was a gentile to repent from a law that was given to a gentile, but to a jewish nation.. and if you read the law , why are you, high lighting sin, even a fool knows if your read the bible, you commit, one sin , you break them all. foolishness come in many shapes and forms. the full law to a jewish people you need a temple. when you work this out. who are you going to call.
alas the new covenent.

I am not sure what your point is, but I was showing one cannot be saved without first repenting. A homosexual CANNOT be saved as a homosexual but must first repent.

 

[Jackson123]

He had to dip in the river for grace required it and his faith included that work for "faith alone" would never procured grace-healing.

1) it was for Naaman because of God's grace.
2) his cure was a combination of his (1) obedient faith and (2) God's grace. He could never been healed without 1 or 2.

Brother SeaBass.

1. Dip into the river 7 time will not cure leprosy. You know that.

2. His faith in God, prove by doing what the man of God said even if look like impossible. He do it to prove his faith.

Conclusion, faith does move God do do the job . Work just prove the faith.

Let compare with purgatory.

Does catholic go to purgatory similar to Naaman dipping to the river?

Naaman dipping to the river is act of faith. He choose to dipping to the river because faith. A catholic go to purgatory is not a choice.

Let compare to the water baptism specially infant baptism. It not a person choice infant not able to choose.

Adult baptism is base on choice, but baptism itself not going to save person. It just ritual.

 

[SeaBass]

Brother SeaBass.

1. Dip into the river 7 time will not cure leprosy. You know that.

2. His faith in God, prove by doing what the man of God said even if look like impossible. He do it to prove his faith.

Conclusion, faith does move God do do the job . Work just prove the faith.

Let compare with purgatory.

Does catholic go to purgatory similar to Naaman dipping to the river?

Naaman dipping to the river is act of faith. He choose to dipping to the river because faith. A catholic go to purgatory is not a choice.

Let compare to the water baptism specially infant baptism. It not a person choice infant not able to choose.

Adult baptism is base on choice, but baptism itself not going to save person. It just ritual.

1) dipping healed Naaman and Naaman is the case that I am dealing in proving that his work of dipping did not in any way earn his healing. So Naaman is an example of God's grace and man's obedience going hand in hand.

2) I see no connection between a Catholic teaching and Naaman.

Three simple questions:

1) Could Naaman been healed without God's grace? Yes No

2) Could Naaman been healed without obedient work of going and dipping? Yes No

3) Was Naaman's obedience in going and dipping "filthy rags" before God? Yes No

 

[newbirth]

Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?

(Job 41:11, Romans 11:35)


it is abundantly clear that we are not saved in order to continue in sin or disobedience.
it is also abundantly clear that His precious gift & redemption are by no means earned, deserved, or bought by any work, ritual, or keeping of law.
we are saved by grace, not works, lest any man should boast.

Saved by grace through faith... you cannot pull pieces of scripture to suit your fancy,,,,then comes not works, lest any man should boast... a saved person is created unto good works....
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[posthuman]

Saved by grace through faith... you cannot pull pieces of scripture to suit your fancy,,,,then comes not works, lest any man should boast... a saved person is created unto good works....
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

amen!

unto good works, not by good works!

his workmanship, not our own!

 

[SeaBass]

amen!

unto good works, not by good works!

his workmanship, not our own!

Can one who becomes a Christian NEVER do any good works and still be saved?

 

[Jackson123]

1) dipping healed Naaman and Naaman is the case that I am dealing in proving that his work of dipping did not in any way earn his healing. So Naaman is an example of God's grace and man's obedience going hand in hand.

2) I see no connection between a Catholic teaching and Naaman.

Three simple questions:

1) Could Naaman been healed without God's grace? Yes No

2) Could Naaman been healed without obedient work of going and dipping? Yes No

3) Was Naaman's obedience in going and dipping "filthy rags" before God? Yes No

1 No
2 no
3 Yes.

 

[posthuman]

Can one who becomes a Christian NEVER do any good works and still be saved?

who made you or me the judge of who should receive God's mercy?
can you see the limits of His grace from where you stand?

what 'good works' did these 7,000 do?

Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel --
all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal
and whose mouths have not kissed him.
(1 Kings 19:18)