Salvation Not Possible Without Works

newbirth · Jul 26, 2014

are you implying I said by good works?...show where...are you implying I said our workmanship? show where...
the facts show we are created unto good works which God himself ordained.If that does not mean we must do good works .....Maybe this does....
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

newbirth · Jul 26, 2014

posthuman said:

wrong question ..what good work have you done?.....That is the question...
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

posthuman · Jul 26, 2014

newbirth said:

when someone replies to a thread, they are not necessarily arguing with the person whom they quote.

i know in threads like these it's hard not to make that assumption.

what i was hoping to imply was the joy of my salvation!
that i am changed, and that not because of anything i have ever done but one thing: putting my faith completely in Jesus as Lord and Savior, i am changed.
this is how i am fit to do any good work at all, and this is how any good thing i do is done - not by me, but by the change worked in me by the Spirit of God in me, freely given. this change also in me works in joy and thanksgiving, moving me to do righteousness and mercy (unto). because i know that it is Christ that works in me through this Spirit, i have no fear but instead a sure hope of salvation, having already received a down payment, the mark of a burning brand, a sign calling me His own.
perfect love casteth out fear

praise GOD!!! all power, glory and honor are His!

even if i earn a crown for my reaction to His salvation, i cast it at His feet -- it is not me, but the Life in me that works righteousness!

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

newbirth said:

none. i have done nothing worthy of Him. He is that high and lifted up.
even the most pure action or thought or moment of my entire life cannot even approach Him!
who is like Him???

no one is good, except One -- God.
(Luke 18:19)

if there is any good thing in me, it is a thing of God, not of me.
what joy i have when i see that He works good in me! i can't even tell you!!

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

yes, salvation is not possible without works:

there is only One who works salvation, Jesus Christ.

salvation is a work! a work done by God!

He will certainly have to work to save me, how about you guys???

Kerry · Jul 27, 2014

They only work a person can do, is to place their faith in the work of the cross and the Holy Spirit takes care of the rest and in fact it is rest.

newbirth · Jul 27, 2014

posthuman said:

That is correct

How did you change?Was it this way?...And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

change worked in you? and moving you? God says you have to do it You have to put off the old man. Why did he give you power?
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have not so learned Christ;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

God gave you the power to do righteousness he did not possess you as if he was a demon to control you and make you do what he wants. God does not even make the spirit take over the prophets.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

newbirth · Jul 27, 2014

posthuman said:

Then you admit you are reprobate?
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

newbirth · Jul 27, 2014

Kerry said:

Yea Jesus spoke of you...
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

newbirth said:

you call yourself newbirth - surely you know what it is to be born again?

I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John;
yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
- Jesus

SeaBass · Jul 27, 2014

Jackson123 said:

You're two "NO" answers indicate his healing was a result of BOTH God's grace and Naaman's obedient work. As salvation is by BOTH God's grace and man's obedience, salvation cannot be obtained without both as Naaman could not have been healed without both

It was God that instructed Naaman to go and dip, not Naaman's own idea. So how can God view His own instruction as filthy rags? Acts 10:35 those that work righteousness (obey God) are accepted with God.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Did Jesus learn 'filthy rags" in obeying God?

SeaBass · Jul 27, 2014

posthuman said:

Eph 2:10 God preordained Christians walk in good works. Who can undo, negate what God has preordained for Christians to do?

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

SeaBass said:

it doesn't follow from that that you or i judge other men's souls.

Jackson123 · Jul 27, 2014

SeaBass said:

That why I said faith. his obedience is action of faith. Salvation need faith. The thief has a faith in Jesus and ask Jesus to remember him in paradise and Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. He not doing anything, How we said his salvation from his work?

Let say a rich man come to me and invite me to his house, he promise to give me a million dollar if I come to his house on time. I come to his house in time and he give me million dollar.

Can I said this million dollar is my wage, I work for it, by come to his house?

It inappropriate to said that it is my wage.

It is a grace, a free give though I have to go to his house.

I have to say thank, I am not deserve for it.

To say it is a result of my work is steal part of the Glory of God.

Yes I have to work, I went to his house which is a mile from my house.

But walk a mile compare with million dollar is nothing. To me it is pure grace not my work.

SeaBass · Jul 27, 2014

posthuman said:

I am just stating what Eph 2:10 says. People can accept it or reject it, God judges those that reject it.

SeaBass · Jul 27, 2014

Jackson123 said:

The point, which you agreed to, was Naaman could not have been healed if it he had no obedient work. Proving "grace alone" would never have healed him. To be healed required he had an OBEDIENT faith in God by going and dipping. " Faith only" would mean Naaman would have just sat on the bank of the river and do nothing leaving him unhealed.

Naaman's obedience did not steal anything from God's grace but was a necessary part of God's grace, a part that God Himself required.

You understand that going to the millionaire's house did not earn you the free gift, but that work was necessary to get the free gift. Why then cannot the 'faith only' advocates understand obeying God is like going to the millionaire's house, it earns nothing but is a necessary requirement?

Just as grace only would not heal Naaman without his work,

just like the millionarie's grace only would not get you the money without your work

Grace only cannot save man without man's obedience.

Skinski7 · Jul 27, 2014

A working faith is necessary for salvation.

What is a working faith? It is simply believing God wholeheartedly where you act on that belief and abide in His instruction.

Salvation is the result of a working faith being applied to God's influence (grace which quickens), a result where the heart is transformed from one of being dead to God in selffishness to that of being alive to God in purity and love.

The inner transformation is evidenced by an outward transformation.

All this talk about "earning free gifts" or that "doing = legalism or salvation by works" is pure semantic nonsense. The Pharisees were deceived by playing with words and so are many modern professing Christians.

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

SeaBass said:

i'm only stating what Ephesians 2:4-9 says.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved —and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

because without that we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves but the gift of God then no work of human hands is to any avail.

have you read verse 22?

In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

we are not "building ourselves" but being built.
my obedience is not my own work, but the work of the Life within me.

if a secretary takes dictation from an orator and types it into a letter,
who has written the letter?
the secretary?
the typewriter?
or the one who spoke, and also hired the office help, and owns the paper and the ink and the machine and the whole establishment?

as for me, if i find that my old self is dead, and yet i am quickened by Christ -- then that which lives in me, i will by no means attribute to myself, but humbly extol God for the good work He does in building me into His purpose.
perhaps we just do have the same idea of "self" -- the life in me that is able to do righteousness is not my own, but belongs to the One that creates it in me. do you appropriate that Life to your own glory? i do not. all glory belongs to God.

SeaBass said:

then let God judge.
you are not the judge. i am not the judge.

but we (we as in the whole website, not just you or me) keep asking,
is this man saved if i don't observe his works?
is this man saved if i don't dunk him in a bathtub and say magic words?
is this man saved if he doesn't physically apologize in person to everyone he's ever wronged?
is this man saved if he doesn't evangelize?
is this man saved if he doesn't observe the sabbath?
is this man saved if he observes the sabbath on a different day?
is this man saved if he doesn't parse Greek sentences?
is this man saved if he doesn't produce abundant fruit?
is this man saved if he doesn't make himself holy?
is this man saved if he believes God chose him?
is this man saved if he uses money?
is this man saved if he goes to a church with a pastor?
is this man saved if he believes God has revealed Himself in 3 distinct aspects?
is this man saved if he doesn't speak in tongues?
is this man saved if he trusts in God rather than himself?
is this man saved if he donates blood?
is this man saved if he is cremated?
is this man saved if doubt and confusion have overtaken him?
is this man saved if he wears khaki trousers??

guess who the only One who is qualified to answer these questions is:

SeaBass said:

SeaBass · Jul 27, 2014

posthuman said:

i'm only stating what Ephesians 2:4-9 says.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved —and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

because without that we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves but the gift of God then no work of human hands is to any avail.

have you read verse 22?

In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

we are not "building ourselves" but being built.
my obedience is not my own work, but the work of the Life within me.

if a secretary takes dictation from an orator and types it into a letter,
who has written the letter?
the secretary?
the typewriter?
or the one who spoke, and also hired the office help, and owns the paper and the ink and the machine and the whole establishment?

as for me, if i find that my old self is dead, and yet i am quickened by Christ -- then that which lives in me, i will by no means attribute to myself, but humbly extol God for the good work He does in building me into His purpose.
perhaps we just do have the same idea of "self" -- the life in me that is able to do righteousness is not my own, but belongs to the One that creates it in me. do you appropriate that Life to your own glory? i do not. all glory belongs to God.

then let God judge.
you are not the judge. i am not the judge.

but we (we as in the whole website, not just you or me) keep asking,
is this man saved if i don't observe his works?
is this man saved if i don't dunk him in a bathtub and say magic words?
is this man saved if he doesn't physically apologize in person to everyone he's ever wronged?
is this man saved if he doesn't evangelize?
is this man saved if he doesn't observe the sabbath?
is this man saved if he observes the sabbath on a different day?
is this man saved if he doesn't parse Greek sentences?
is this man saved if he doesn't produce abundant fruit?
is this man saved if he doesn't make himself holy?
is this man saved if he believes God chose him?
is this man saved if he uses money?
is this man saved if he goes to a church with a pastor?
is this man saved if he believes God has revealed Himself in 3 distinct aspects?
is this man saved if he doesn't speak in tongues?
is this man saved if he trusts in God rather than himself?
is this man saved if he donates blood?
is this man saved if he is cremated?
is this man saved if doubt and confusion have overtaken him?
is this man saved if he wears khaki trousers??

guess who the only One who is qualified to answer these questions is:

Eph 2:4-9 does not change the fact God preordained Christians to walk in good works. No good works = no salvation.

God will judge and God judges according to one's works Rom 2:6 and God uses His word, (which includes Eph 2:10), as the basis for His judgments Jn 12:48

Are you to judge those that do good works, accusing them of trying to earn their salvation?

posthuman · Jul 27, 2014

SeaBass said:

if you can ask me that question, how can i believe you understood what i said?

Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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