Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

Jesus didn't say that. Show us where Jesus said works saves. One must do works in order to be saved. Show that decree coming from Jesus himself.

Paul was writing letters to direct, to manage, the churches he founded. Compelling them to do good works in order to demonstrate the saving grace of Christ as active in the new creature.
Jesus never said you have to do works to be saved. Because if you didn't do works after salvation you'd be damned again by that logic. And that just isn't so.

Just like the false teaching that says salvation is not eternal. When salvation is by the grace of God that's it. But those who argue against eternal life, eternal salvation, claim people can do something to lose their salvation. Well, if they could do something to lose salvation they could then do something to gain it. Which puts God's grace out of the picture and man's elective action to obtain grace through their own efforts, front and center.

Heb 5:9 says Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that OBEY Him.

Jesus said in Mt 7:21 that those who DOETH the will of the Father are the ones that enter the kingdom of God.

Jn 6:27 Jesus said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

Here are just 3 verses out many, many more that require obedient works to be saved.

Everyone is doing works whether that know it or not or like it or not and everyone is doing either righteous works or unrighteous works.....one or the other, no inbetween. Only those that are doing righteous works will be saved, those that do unrighteous works will be lost, per my signature line below, 1 Jn 3:10 "whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God"

In Rom 6:16 Paul put it this way "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Everyone is serving either one of two masters whether they know it or not or like it or not. Everyone is either serving:

1) sin unto death
or
2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve obedience unto righteousness. "Faith only" eliminates serving obedience unto righteousness.


Salvation is eternal but is only a CONDITIONAL promise to those that remain faithful unto death, Rev 2:10. Those that become unfaithful lose the promise of eternal life.

 

[notuptome]

Would add that I believe the warning against "easy believism" is the most crucial message of our times to get across to those claiming Christianity.

Our command is to be witnesses and to disciple the nations. God does the conversions. Just preach the word and be instant in season and out of season. God's word never goes forth that it does not accomplish that to which He has purposed it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

One can't say faith without works is impossible, without throwing out people converted and dying before they could do any works, and, of course, works don't save. That said, though, we all know faith without works is dead (James 2). Some other verses to consider,

Faith without works is DEAD so a faith without works makes salvation impossible.

Obedient works do save, Heb 5:9 Christ saves those that obey Him.

So Christ saves, but who does He save? Those with obedient works.

 

[Elin]

Faith without works is DEAD so a faith without works makes salvation impossible.

Obedient works do save, Heb 5:9 Christ saves those that obey Him.

So Christ saves, but who does He save? Those with obedient works.

Paul disagrees.

No unregenerate person is even able to do good works until he is regenerated; i.e.,
born again into eternal life, which is salvation.

God himself makes the wicked righteous (justifies them), and then their faith produces obedience.

If God didn't make the wicked righteous, no one would be righteous.


Ro 8:7-8:

"the sinful mind is hostile to God (rebellious).
It does not submit to God's law (insubordinate),
nor can it do so (spiritually powerless).
Those controlled by the sinful (unregenerate) nature cannot please God."

(There is no doing of any good works by the unregenerate nature.)

Ro 4:5:

"God justifies the wicked,"

And if I may add, the fundamental flaw of works for salvation is unbelief of Ro 8:7-8, 4:5.

Human reasoning cannot reconcile the total inability of unregenerate man in the NT Word of God
with the righteousness of man required by God for salvation.

However, for the regenerated (born again) who were justified in their wickedness,
it's a piece o' cake. . .there is no contradiction.

"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures, or the power of God." (Mt 22:29)

 

[newbirth]

Paul disagrees.

No unregenerate person is even able to do good works until he is regenerated; i.e.,
born again into eternal life, which is salvation.

And clearly the entrance into the kingdom is....
John 3:3-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[JesusIsAll]

No unregenerate person is even able to do good works until he is regenerated; i.e.,
born again into eternal life, which is salvation.

Yes, obedient works of, for instance, moral law do not save. Nothing righteous we do saves. The entire Old Testament is about the need for Jesus Christ, the failure of the law to save, how the law only exposes men as sinners who can't keep it. If we have one scintilla of sin in us before our holy God (obviously all of us more than one scintilla), without the blood of Christ, we are damned. We don't even seek God, rather He draws us,

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Believing in one's own merit, facing our holy God, is foolishness, nothing about the sinner impressing God, who is not a respecter of persons,

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And it's so ludicrous, this concept that works save. If so, why did the Lord Jesus need to die, shed His blood for our sin, for us to have spiritual fellowship with God? Why didn't He simply preach to get back on the stick with some good works, then return to heaven? It's silly, and so much basic gospel there's only remission of sin due to Christ's atonement, His work. How a Christian could say obedient works save, I've no idea. Obedience follows salvation, like the horse is in front of the cart.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[newbirth]

Yes, obedient works of, for instance, moral law do not save. Nothing righteous we do saves. The entire Old Testament is about the need for Jesus Christ, the failure of the law to save, how the law only exposes men as sinners who can't keep it. If we have one scintilla of sin in us before our holy God (obviously all of us more than one scintilla), without the blood of Christ, we are damned. We don't even seek God, rather He draws us,

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Believing in one's own merit, facing our holy God, is foolishness, nothing about the sinner impressing God, who is not a respecter of persons,

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And it's so ludicrous, this concept that works save. If so, why did the Lord Jesus need to die, shed His blood for our sin, for us to have spiritual fellowship with God? Why didn't He simply preach to get back on the stick with some good works, then return to heaven? It's silly, and so much basic gospel there's only remission of sin due to Christ's atonement, His work. How a Christian could say obedient works save, I've no idea. Obedience follows salvation, like the horse is in front of the cart.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And nothing but the blood of Jesus.

If you can show me how you can NOT walk in the light and still be saved.....
what does it mean to walk in the light? If we are to walk in the light as Christ is in the light ...
John 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 12:46

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

 

[JesusIsAll]

If you can show me how you can NOT walk in the light and still be saved.....

"Obedience follows salvation, like the horse is in front of the cart." Maybe you could please read what I wrote and not put words in my mouth, or anybody's? I said nothing to even imply we are not to walk in the light, was even expressing the most basic theology.

I've often noticed people knee jerk looking to argue, where no argument exists, which, with all due respect, I find no amusement in.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Salvation is eternal but is only a CONDITIONAL promise to those that remain faithful unto death, Rev 2:10. Those that become unfaithful lose the promise of eternal life.

It is troubling that you don't realize you just contradicted yourself there.
That has never been true.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

[h=1]Hebrews 10:12-14[/h] [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Let us see if a Bible teacher can overcome the false teachers here.

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][h=1]Q & A: Conditional Salvation?[/h][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Conditional Salvation?
Ask a Bible Teacher
By Jack Kelley

Question: My husband is convinced that you can lose your salvation. (Answer)

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I dare the false teachers to read the entire article so that they may come to repentance. If they're of a mind to.
For the Christians among us, may this be a blessing that bolsters your resolve to meet the enemy and turn them back when they try to convince the sanctified that they can choose to leave Christ and make his sacrifice a temporary conditional illusion of ours.

May God have mercy.

 

[newbirth]

"Obedience follows salvation, like the horse is in front of the cart." Maybe you could please read what I wrote and not put words in my mouth, or anybody's? I said nothing to even imply we are not to walk in the light, was even expressing the most basic theology.

I've often noticed people knee jerk looking to argue, where no argument exists, which, with all due respect, I find no amusement in.

we are saved by grace through faith ...faith is not a one off act where you do something and is saved forever....the scripture says "through faith" that is continuous......faith comes by hearing and faith without works is dead....so we must do what we hear
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

When Jesus called his disciples he said follow me ...they obeyed and were ultimately saved...you want to be saved first and then obey....Salvation is open to all (we are saved by grace)....through faith (those who answer the call) shall be saved
The Christian walk begins with obedience of faith unto God and ends with the saving of the soul.
It is through obedience we enter God's kingdom....

John 3:3-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[newbirth]

Let us see if a Bible teacher can overcome the false teachers here.

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]Q & A: Conditional Salvation?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Conditional Salvation?
Ask a Bible Teacher
By Jack Kelley

Question: My husband is convinced that you can lose your salvation. (Answer)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I dare the false teachers to read the entire article so that they may come to repentance. If they're of a mind to.
For the Christians among us, may this be a blessing that bolsters your resolve to meet the enemy and turn them back when they try to convince the sanctified that they can choose to leave Christ and make his sacrifice a temporary conditional illusion of ours.

May God have mercy.

This is this scripture ...who is the false teacher?
those who sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of truth...gets vs 27 and those who say they were not saved vs 27 says they were sanctified...
Hebrews 10:26-31King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[cfultz3]

Let us see if a Bible teacher can overcome the false teachers here.

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][h=1]Q & A: Conditional Salvation?[/h][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Conditional Salvation?
Ask a Bible Teacher
By Jack Kelley

Question: My husband is convinced that you can lose your salvation. (Answer)

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I dare the false teachers to read the entire article so that they may come to repentance. If they're of a mind to.
For the Christians among us, may this be a blessing that bolsters your resolve to meet the enemy and turn them back when they try to convince the sanctified that they can choose to leave Christ and make his sacrifice a temporary conditional illusion of ours.

May God have mercy.

If you cannot loose salvation by whatever means, then may I go and live as lasciviously as my heart desires?

Or does it not say that God will not be mocked, whatever a man sows, the same will he harvest? That the one who sows for his flesh will from the flesh harvest corruption? But the one who sows for the Spirit will harvest from the Spirit, everlasting life?

So then, if salvation cannot be lost, let us then be as sinful as we can, knowing that no matter what, we have God in a concrete hold where we are convinced we able to use His misunderstood words against Him by saying, "Oh!!! But God, you said I just needed to believe. You said nothing about me having to fulfill your eternal Will.'

But rather, let us remember, they who practice such things as are listed in Gal 5:19-21 will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[cfultz3]

It is troubling that you don't realize you just contradicted yourself there.
That has never been true.

What has never been true? That those who persevere until the end will receive everlasting life? But, we understand from Scripture that those who do not persevere has fallen from grace, that grace by which we are saved by trusting the Lord upon His path (His leading of the Hebrews gives us the understanding that those who fell did not trust Him and thus, did not enter His rest because of that deed of untrust).

 

[Stephen63]

Luke 6:46-49 (KJV) [SUP]46[/SUP]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (easy believism) [SUP]47 [/SUP]Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,(Lordship) I will shew you to whom he is like: [SUP]48 [/SUP]He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But he that heareth, and doeth not,(easy believism) is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

 

[cfultz3]

What has never been true? That those who persevere until the end will receive everlasting life? But, we understand from Scripture that those who do not persevere has fallen from grace, that grace by which we are saved by trusting the Lord upon His path (His leading of the Hebrews gives us the understanding that those who fell did not trust Him and thus, did not enter His rest because of that deed of untrust).

BUMP********

 

[Kerry]

Tell me what work can you do ?

 

[cfultz3]

Tell me what work can you do ?

Believe in the One God sent.

Trust Him to lead me Home.

Come back on the Path when He corrects me.

Do as He asks of me.

Do not deny my faith under the sword.

Walk pleasingly before God (fulfill His will).

Die to my flesh.

Become alive to my spirit.

What work can I do for salvation: believe in the One He sent. And the One He sent says: You come and you follow Me.

Nice question, Kerry

 

[Eva1218]

One is Saved by Grace the Work of JESUS now Salvation yes one must first believe, have faith and Repent their sins before the LORD.

Blessings!!!!!!!