Salvation Not Possible Without Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
please just consider it. The power that will be denied is the resurrecting power that raised Jesus Christ from the grave. The falling away will appear godly but it is cold, dark, empty and lifeless. It will be so puffed up with pride that anyone outside of its mindset will be labeled as the fallen ones....it's backwards...evil will appear good because it's an appearance of goodness.
So, you've "picked and chose" the only one that you can fit into your belief system rather than verses that say "because Iniquity shall about the love of most will grow cold" ... and the one in Rev about what God does To those that are "cold" - etc.

Granted - I know of many Gentiles that have become Messianic or HRM that have departed from the Gospel and have gone back under the law to the point of throwing out Paul's writings and even throwing out Jesus altogether. So I don't fully disagree with you But you are not seeing the other reasons that many fall away from the faith ... is because of their own lusts that they haven't given over to The LORD.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Really...OK....To him that WORKETH is the reward of DEBT and not of grace Romans 4:4-5<---in the N.T.
You are still neglecting doing a honest, open and non-biased Search from a Concordance to see how that word "works/work" is Also used regarding N.T. "obedience" and that's been my unheeded request for weeks now.

Until then, we can't speak in a fair debate.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
You are still neglecting doing a honest, open and non-biased Search from a Concordance to see how that word "works/work" is Also used regarding N.T. "obedience" and that's been my unheeded request for weeks now.

Until then, we can't speak in a fair debate.
I have studied the words work, worketh and works and no where does it teach that works facilitate, add to, help get and or maintain salvation...

Salvation is based entirely upon faith void of human merit and or assistance.....genuine faith will produce works for sure, but what is missed is the fact that it is JESUS dia the HOLY SPIRIT that is doing the works and not we of ourselves...as a LIVING SACRIFICE GOD does the work through US and that is why WORKS do not and to cannot save!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Hogwash, Paul was speaking against adding work of any kind to the gospel of Christ. Not every time Paul says the word work means the law. That your misinterpretation.

Paul said works of ANY KIND added to grace nullifies grace, and makes it void (unable to save)


Now here we go again.

You yell at me and say you believe a true faith will never be alone, And here you go saying that works need to be done to be saved. Which is it?
I don't "yell" ... not even my family has ever heard me yell.

But I do suggest you also do a word Search on "works" and "law" because that's where you and I differ.
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
even if you say Christ alone...you must obey Christ....how do you obey Christ's instructions....or do you not obey them as long as they are considered work? falling away is falling away from Christ and what he teaches....so while your eyes are on those who are going the wrong way you yourself are being led astray....keep your eyes on Christ and test the doctrine with the word of God....

A man teaches Faith alone saves...but the scripture says ...we are saved by grace ...through faith...those are not the same thing..who should I believe ...the scripture of course...the man is teaching false doctrine....and if this man build his doctrine on false premise why should I follow his teachings???
You say the falling away is a falling away from from Christ.....I agree, BUT your view of Christ is different than mine, so the falling away means two different things.

I believe that the redemption of our sins is 100 percent free and 100 percent sealed in Christs finished work on the cross. My gratitude and love for my savior will be manifested through my life. There is nothing I can do or not to to change my position IN CHRIST. So, I believe that the falling away is falling from Christ (who He is to me) GRACE

you on the other hand believe that your life must be a continuation of the cross, that You must work out your salvation (which I believe you are doing right now without even realizing) thus, the falling away to you will be manifested through the appearance of an "ungodly" life.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,643
8,899
113
Eta kalindo, is this thread still going? I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far...
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
I have studied the words work, worketh and works and no where does it teach that works facilitate, add to, help get and or maintain salvation...

Salvation is based entirely upon faith void of human merit and or assistance.....genuine faith will produce works for sure, but what is missed is the fact that it is JESUS dia the HOLY SPIRIT that is doing the works and not we of ourselves...as a LIVING SACRIFICE GOD does the work through US and that is why WORKS do not and to cannot save!
New Testament "works" are merely another word for "Obedience" and Obedience takes the freewill of the person to do - as in obedience to His Word and obedience to the Spirit of Truth that is leading the true Saints consistently.

We ain't robots. There are Far Too Many verses regarding our own wills being involved with obedience. I would estimate that at the least 3/5ths or more of the New Testament are commands for Godly living -- that do and are presented to us as a "choice" we must make after hearing or reading or being led by His Spirit of Truth to not do or to do.

Even your "Living Sacrifice" is a command by Paul in Romans. We're to "present our bodies as _______" and not live contrary to that which is written in the Entire New Testament of our own freewill ... though He gives the Power to obey IF we from our hearts decide to follow His Words [written or spoken of His Spirit within us].

The largest portion of our New Testament is commands. Like it or not -- we are still freewill agents in regards to those.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Eta kalindo, is this thread still going? I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far...
Yup! It became a broken record weeks ago - from both sides - since I've been a member.

Pull up a seat if you're bored to death. ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Eta kalindo, is this thread still going? I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far... I wonder how many times y'all have repeated yourselves so far...
Forrest...they make drugs for that and I am not talking a box of chocolates!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Chocolate is the BEST psychotropic ever created!!!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
You say the falling away is a falling away from from Christ.....I agree, BUT your view of Christ is different than mine, so the falling away means two different things.

I believe that the redemption of our sins is 100 percent free and 100 percent sealed in Christs finished work on the cross. My gratitude and love for my savior will be manifested through my life. There is nothing I can do or not to to change my position IN CHRIST. So, I believe that the falling away is falling from Christ (who He is to me) GRACE

you on the other hand believe that your life must be a continuation of the cross, that You must work out your salvation (which I believe you are doing right now without even realizing) thus, the falling away to you will be manifested through the appearance of an "ungodly" life.
Yup and I Do "realize it" - What does it mean to take up your cross? ... "Obedienc unto Death"

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Php 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Php 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.



1John2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Thess 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.





And the Only reason that I follow these words of His is because I LOVE HIM and as it says in Eph 5 [that likens the commands to husbands and wives] -- at as His wife - I am to 'submit' to Him, The Word of God.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
one becomes an nfl player by being drafted by a team.

dude get a clue. nothing yuo say makes sense. Never does. How can you look at yourself with the foolishness yu preach?

One who does nothing will not get drafted by an NFL team as one who does nothing cannot become a Christian.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Only those who Christ makes righteous are righteous. Man's righteousness is not righteous in Gods sight.

You continue to impose stipulations that God does not impose.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Those who do righteous are reckoned righteous by God.

Christ does not randomly, arbitrarily, for some unknown reason make an unrighteous person righteous while that person continues to do unrighteousness. Your scenario puts fault, blame and culpability upon Christ of all that are unrighteousness for Christ failed to make them righteous.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Sincere faith changes your heart. Many are deceived by their own righteousness. When we see our sin for what it is and accept His sacrifice, it WILL produce a servants heart. I owe my life to Him for what He did freely on the cross, it becomes very offensive when anyone thinks that their good deeds can offer something to supplement the finished work of Christ.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain

Can a person be saved without that person ever obeying God's will?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0

"faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone"

A classic contradiction.

Faith onlyists do not want works to be part of one's salvation yet, at the same time, they do not want to see the Christian as one who does no works at all......so they then ADD works.

Faith cannot be "alone" AND "not alone" at the same time.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
You say the falling away is a falling away from from Christ.....I agree, BUT your view of Christ is different than mine, so the falling away means two different things.
mmmmm

I believe that the redemption of our sins is 100 percent free and 100 percent sealed in Christs finished work on the cross. My gratitude and love for my savior will be manifested through my life. There is nothing I can do or not to to change my position IN CHRIST. So, I believe that the falling away is falling from Christ (who He is to me) GRACE
redemption of our sins?? you must mean remission of our sins...of course it is free Christ died for the sins of the whole world....but we have to obey Christ to obtain it...
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Jesus says there is something you can do to ensure your position in him
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

you are saying you believe you don't have to continue in His word...if you don't how can you be a disciple???/


you on the other hand believe that your life must be a continuation of the cross, that You must work out your salvation (which I believe you are doing right now without even realizing) thus, the falling away to you will be manifested through the appearance of an "ungodly" life.
I believe my life is in Christ...
scripture says to work out your own salvation....do you not follow scripture?
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
You know, I spent 20 years of my life trapped in lifeless "religion". When I realized the absolute freedom in Christ He had offered all along, I fell to my face....there is nothing....ABSOlUTELY NOTHING that could lead me back down that road. It is a yoke of bondage I wish NEVER to return.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
You know, I spent 20 years of my life trapped in lifeless "religion". When I realized the absolute freedom in Christ He had offered all along, I fell to my face....there is nothing....ABSOlUTELY NOTHING that could lead me back down that road. It is a yoke of bondage I wish NEVER to return.
and whose fault is that???
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Philippians 4:9
Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

so you run to a doctrine of man.......good luck
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't "yell" ... not even my family has ever heard me yell.

But I do suggest you also do a word Search on "works" and "law" because that's where you and I differ.
Ok, lets look at work. What does paul call a work?

eph 2: 9 Not of lest anyone should BOAST.

So a work is something someone can TAKE CREDIT for.

Rom 4: 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

So again, We see a work is something that one can BOAST of, And is something that one does to earn a wage (reward, or payment for the work you did)

So if your working to EARN salvation. by being water baptised. 1. You can boast of your baptism, because You DID IT, and your WORKING for a wage (the wage being salvation>. thus you have cancelled grace.

Paul shows us even more.

Romans 3:27
[ Boasting Excluded ] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Boasting is excluded ONLy by faith, It is not excluded by works of the law. Or works of any other type. (proof paul did not always mean law when he said work.

Romans 4:5-6
[ David Celebrates the Same Truth ] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Here we see both Abraham, and David, one under the law, and one not under the law understand that it is not works which saves us, But faith in God which saves us.

so you see, I have studied the word. Not only biblically, But other ways to.

We work for a wage,, in faith, We work for nothing (grace)