SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
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Mk 16:16 is just as genuine as any other verses in the bible.
1 Cor 15:3,4:
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9, is Paul saying every man will be saved unconditionally by Christ's death, burial and resurrection? No. The gospel is something that must be obeyed, and only those that obey the gospel will be saved, Rom 10:16; 2 Thess 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17, those disbedient to the gospel will be lost.
1 Cor 15:3,4:
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9, is Paul saying every man will be saved unconditionally by Christ's death, burial and resurrection? No. The gospel is something that must be obeyed, and only those that obey the gospel will be saved, Rom 10:16; 2 Thess 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17, those disbedient to the gospel will be lost.
I didn't twist a thing...the difference between you and I is....
1. I teach salvation is evidenced by the works that follow
2. You teach you are saved by works.......
It is biblical who is false......it is you Sea Perch that is contrary!
Men can see our salvation by our evidenced works--->James
Men are justified before God by faith------------------>Romans
1. I teach salvation is evidenced by the works that follow
2. You teach you are saved by works.......
It is biblical who is false......it is you Sea Perch that is contrary!
Men can see our salvation by our evidenced works--->James
Men are justified before God by faith------------------>Romans
If you have accepted Jesus and understand what He has done for you, you will work. If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus. But you are not saved through your works. You are saved by letting Jesus change your heart. I don't know how else to say this. You cannot earn what Jesus has given you. But you will work if you are grateful for Jesus' free gift.
There you go again...nuancing the truth. The gospel must be believed not obeyed. How do you propose to obey Christ died for our sins? How do you obey Christ was buried? How do you obey Christ rose again the third day?
You continue to interpose your worldly wisdom upon Gods plan of salvation. You corrupt the purity of Gods grace with human cooperation. You do despite to the blood of Christ and the grace of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
PS Mark 16:16 presents some inconsistencies with the rest of scripture. Most scholars contend that it was added or edited by a scribe and not part of the original text. The end of Mark is likely lost.
You continue to interpose your worldly wisdom upon Gods plan of salvation. You corrupt the purity of Gods grace with human cooperation. You do despite to the blood of Christ and the grace of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
PS Mark 16:16 presents some inconsistencies with the rest of scripture. Most scholars contend that it was added or edited by a scribe and not part of the original text. The end of Mark is likely lost.
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Here you post it again...."salvation is evidenced by the works that follow"
So if works do not follow that is evidence one is not saved. Which makes works necessary to salvation.
James is not saying one is saved by faith only then does works for others to see that he was saved by faith only. That is a major, MAJOR twisting of what James said.
If works must be seen by other men in order to prve one has been saved, then why didn't Abraham offer Issac in the middle of town for all to see instead of taking Isaac out into the wilderness away from the eyes of men?
James is saying prove to me your faith WITHOUT works and I will prove my faith by my works. James is saying if one has no works he cannot even prove he has faith. Works are proof of faith. No works are proof of lack of faith.
So if works do not follow that is evidence one is not saved. Which makes works necessary to salvation.
James is not saying one is saved by faith only then does works for others to see that he was saved by faith only. That is a major, MAJOR twisting of what James said.
If works must be seen by other men in order to prve one has been saved, then why didn't Abraham offer Issac in the middle of town for all to see instead of taking Isaac out into the wilderness away from the eyes of men?
James is saying prove to me your faith WITHOUT works and I will prove my faith by my works. James is saying if one has no works he cannot even prove he has faith. Works are proof of faith. No works are proof of lack of faith.
It is what scripture has always meant.
Those that hold to the principle of "sola scriptura" has produced thousands of ideas, notions, theories all under the agis that it is what scripture says. It is just amazing how many meanings scripture has when men can superimpose their intellectual acuity to a text.
So, from my vantage point, whatever it is that you believe is not more nor less valid than any other person pushing is own opinion. You could not disprove Mormonism, or Jehovah Witnesses or any other denomination group, sect using scripture the way you are using it. Why do you think all these groups exist in the first place.
MOre unfounded assertions again. All for the purpose to denigrate the work of the Holy Spirit, to force your view upon scripture.
NOt that it is applicable, but Luther and Calvin did the same thing.
Which is why Christ has never given His authority to individual men. He has always retained the Headship of His Body, and the Holy Spirit dwells only within that Body. But individual men have always been sinful, no more no less than today. History also shows that individual man has NEVER been able to impose his own views upon scripture.
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Rom 10:16; 2 Thess 1:8; 2 Pet 4:17 imply the gospel must be OBEYED to be saved..."In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thess 1:8
CHrist's death burial and resurrection made salvation possible, but only those that obey Christ's gospel will be saved. Christ's gospel teaches one must believe, repent confess and be baptized to be saved, and those that do this are obeying the gospel.
CHrist's death burial and resurrection made salvation possible, but only those that obey Christ's gospel will be saved. Christ's gospel teaches one must believe, repent confess and be baptized to be saved, and those that do this are obeying the gospel.
Wrong again Sea Perch.....James is speaking the truth about the ability of men to see the invisible faith that exists....FAITH is a simple mindset.....
I believed into the faith of Jesus and am SAVED because of that simple act of faith....period! You are real good at twisting what people say into your own version of heresy...
I believed into the faith of Jesus and am SAVED because of that simple act of faith....period! You are real good at twisting what people say into your own version of heresy...
You posted "...you will work". That makes works essential to salvation.
You posted "If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus". This means LACK of works proves one is NOT saved which means works prove one is saved making works essential to salvation.
No one has argued one can earn salvation, so that is a non-issue.
You posted "If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus". This means LACK of works proves one is NOT saved which means works prove one is saved making works essential to salvation.
No one has argued one can earn salvation, so that is a non-issue.
Nice nuance here to use the word TO.....dude you are hilarious and if it wasn't so tragic it would be really funny!
So what type of works do the following have..
1. Prodigal Son?
2. Vessel of dishonor IN THE HOUSE?
3. Saved man who has works of wood, hay and stubble?
What works did the thief on the cross perform?
How about those who are cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH so that the SPIRIT will learn to not blaspheme in the day of judgment?
Salvation is based upon a child like act of faith and men can be saved and only have 1 piece of fruit on the tree (FAITH) which identifies them as a child of God.....
So what type of works do the following have..
1. Prodigal Son?
2. Vessel of dishonor IN THE HOUSE?
3. Saved man who has works of wood, hay and stubble?
What works did the thief on the cross perform?
How about those who are cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH so that the SPIRIT will learn to not blaspheme in the day of judgment?
Salvation is based upon a child like act of faith and men can be saved and only have 1 piece of fruit on the tree (FAITH) which identifies them as a child of God.....
AMEN and I am glad you understand biblical principles......God teaches clearly that our faith justifies us before God and is acceptable unto God....they fail to recognize that before a man our faith can be seen in what we do and say......for example...
People notice that a believer doesn't
1. Cuss like a sailor
2. Commit adultery
3. Steal from the neighbor
etc......None of the listed has any bearing on my salvation because saved people have done the things listed and were convicted/confronted and repented of such sins......
but to say that I have to work to prove/keep/get salvation is heretical.....
1) repentant and returned to his father.
2) purge himself, 2 Tim 2;21
3) "works" in the context of 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
4) the thief is not an example of NT salvation. [He may have been bpatized, Mk 1;5].
By the way, if man has no role in his own salvation, then how can he "purge himself" or "work out his own salvation" or 'save thyself" or "seeing you have purified your souls"?
2) purge himself, 2 Tim 2;21
3) "works" in the context of 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
4) the thief is not an example of NT salvation. [He may have been bpatized, Mk 1;5].
By the way, if man has no role in his own salvation, then how can he "purge himself" or "work out his own salvation" or 'save thyself" or "seeing you have purified your souls"?
K
People say that you do not need works for part of salvation, but that depends on what you define as works. For instance if some believes in Jesus, but continues on a daily basis to sin without remorse, repentance, or conviction that they are still saved. That however is not what the scriptures say. Plus to add why do so many say they believe in Jesus Christ, but write off what He said in the gospels. They mention the part of believing in Him to be saved, but that is only part of what He said.