SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[dcontroversal]

No, James' plain point is "that faith without works is dead"

No works = no faith.

Again you twist what James teaches so as to make salvation tied to works......

SO...why does Jesus cast the people who are bragging on their works into the lake of fire??????

He doesn't say they did no works....but rather that HE NEVER KNEW THEM......

They like you put your eternal salvation (TO) works instead of plain childlike faith.....

 

[notuptome]

Rom 10:16; 2 Thess 1:8; 2 Pet 4:17 imply the gospel must be OBEYED to be saved..."In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thess 1:8

CHrist's death burial and resurrection made salvation possible, but only those that obey Christ's gospel will be saved. Christ's gospel teaches one must believe, repent confess and be baptized to be saved, and those that do this are obeying the gospel.

I just showed you that the gospel that Paul preached was a gospel not of obedience as you suppose but a gospel of belief.

Apostates always say that Christ made salvation possible but men must work for it. God made salvation possible by grace when God accepted Christ's sacrifice on Calvary as atonement for the sins of the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

1) repentant and returned to his father.
2) purge himself, 2 Tim 2;21
3) "works" in the context of 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
4) the thief is not an example of NT salvation. [He may have been bpatized, Mk 1;5].

By the way, if man has no role in his own salvation, then how can he "purge himself" or "work out his own salvation" or 'save thyself" or "seeing you have purified your souls"?

SIMPLE.....Sanctification in a believer's life is an on going process which changes the outward actions by the growth of the regenerated SAVED Spirit that is from God.

Romans 12:1-2...Being TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING OF THE MIND<-----this is what changes the outward actions of a man and is very descriptive of the 4 you twist out of context to tie works to salvation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews teaches the same thing that James teaches. And in the book of Hebrews it says you can not sin willfully after being saved or you will find yourself at judgment and a fiery expectation. For that is the falling away the bible speaks of as well as a carnal mind that Jesus says can not inherit the kingdom. You can not serve to masters.

 

[SeaBass]

I just showed you that the gospel that Paul preached was a gospel not of obedience as you suppose but a gospel of belief.

Apostates always say that Christ made salvation possible but men must work for it. God made salvation possible by grace when God accepted Christ's sacrifice on Calvary as atonement for the sins of the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That passage spoke of Christ's death burial and resurrection. Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9. So every man will be saved since Christ died, was buried and resurrected for every man?

Also in that text Paul says "unless ye have believed in vain". Belief is a work, Jn 6;27-29 adn the gospel is something that must be believed and bleief includes repentance, confession and baptism.

(Believing can be done in vain, meaning one can go from a believer to a non-believer and be lost. As Paul warned the Corinthians of receiving grace in vain, 2 Cor 6:1)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is it? It's BOTH. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? And here we go with the strawman yet

No, it is NOT BOTH. That is what the jews tried to impose on the church, And paul spent half the NT to fight it. It never has been both, and it never will be both.

again by saying that if I believe works are necessary, then that means I'm trying to earn my salvation. I'm convinced more and more that you have to misrepresent me because you simply can't defend your position any other way.

I am not defending my position bro. Your the one defending yours.

If you say works are REQUIRED (which you do) You are saying that your works save you.

Your the one who is confused not me. Again I was in your place. I know where you come from.. I have been freed. Your still in bondage. and do not even know it.

 

[Alligator]

I just showed you that the gospel that Paul preached was a gospel not of obedience as you suppose but a gospel of belief.

Apostates always say that Christ made salvation possible but men must work for it. God made salvation possible by grace when God accepted Christ's sacrifice on Calvary as atonement for the sins of the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So, that means you don't believe Hebrews 5:8 – 9 or second Thessalonians 1:7 –9, is that right?

 

[dcontroversal]

1) repentant and returned to his father.
2) purge himself, 2 Tim 2;21
3) "works" in the context of 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
4) the thief is not an example of NT salvation. [He may have been bpatized, Mk 1;5].

By the way, if man has no role in his own salvation, then how can he "purge himself" or "work out his own salvation" or 'save thyself" or "seeing you have purified your souls"?

And to take your twist to the fullest extent here...WHY do we need Jesus if the above bolded are ties to salvation...

1. Save thyself
2. Seeing you have purified your souls
3. Work out your own salvation
4. Purge himself

If I take your line of thought then I don't need Jesus, the H.S. and or the word of God......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is dcontroversials' post #17 in blue:

The only person that you have proven wrong is yourself based upon the following...

1. Scripture twisted out of context
2. Scripture twisted out of context
3. Scripture twisted out of context

FAITH------>produces works
Works------>do not, cannot save as they are evidence OF SALVATION

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Nobody is teaching that once saved you can live any way you want.....
Because of BIBLICAL salvation...we want to and can serve God acceptably which includes KEEPING the word of God which HAS NO BEARING ON OUR SALVATION!

He plainly posted "They (works) are evidence of salvation". The implication is lack of works is evidence one is not saved.


He also posted "Faith----produces works" Can a faith that does not produce works still save? Or is it that a saving faith MUST produce works making those works just as essential to salvation?

He also posted "Nobody is teaching that once saved you can live any way you want....."

If works have nothing at all to do with salvation, that means a person can do any kind of works he wants to in order to become a Christian. Can one become a Christian by doing evil, wicked sinful works? According to this thread he can.

It also means a Christian, instead of doing good works, can do evil, sinful, wicked works and still maintain his salvation since works have NOTHING at all to do with salvation.


"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."


The works of Acts 2:40; 1 TIm 4:16 etc are obedient works in foing God's will. Which are the kind of works that do save, which is what I have been saying all along.

dude

Are you going to answer or not.

Does God need your works to prove your faith is real?

You taking DC's quote out of context is not helping your case. period

 

[SeaBass]

[/U][/B]SIMPLE.....Sanctification in a believer's life is an on going process which changes the outward actions by the growth of the regenerated SAVED Spirit that is from God.

Romans 12:1-2...Being TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING OF THE MIND<-----this is what changes the outward actions of a man and is very descriptive of the 4 you twist out of context to tie works to salvation.

No verse say sanctification takes place while a sinner sits and does nothing. And what you posted did not answer the question; if man has no role in his own salvation then why does the bible say he must purge himself/purified his soul? If Christ's blood is what cleanses, purges, purifies the soul then why does the bible say this is something men do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Following Jesus' commands is a work.

Yes it is.

we are saved by faith apart from works.. lest anyone should boast.

what part of zero works do you not understand?

Saul had an obedient belief, Acts 22:16

yep. but he was saved before he obeyed one command.

 

[Alligator]

No, it is NOT BOTH. That is what the jews tried to impose on the church, And paul spent half the NT to fight it. It never has been both, and it never will be both.



I am not defending my position bro. Your the one defending yours.

If you say works are REQUIRED (which you do) You are saying that your works save you.

Your the one who is confused not me. Again I was in your place. I know where you come from.. I have been freed. Your still in bondage. and do not even know it.

This post tell me you should have stayed where you were

 

[Timeline]

You posted "...you will work". That makes works essential to salvation.

You posted "If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus". This means LACK of works proves one is NOT saved which means works prove one is saved making works essential to salvation.


No one has argued one can earn salvation, so that is a non-issue.

If that makes you feel better

 

[dcontroversal]

dude

Are you going to answer or not.

Does God need your works to prove your faith is real?

You taking DC's quote out of context is not helping your case. period

No Doubt and notice what he really teaches....

If works have nothing at all to do with salvation, that means a person can do any kind of works he wants to in order to become a Christian. Can one become a Christian by doing evil, wicked sinful works? According to this thread he can.

It also means a Christian, instead of doing good works, can do evil, sinful, wicked works and still maintain his salvation since works have NOTHING at all to do with salvation.

He teaches works for salvation.....NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS HAVE WE DONE......

It does not get any plainer than that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Once again it comes down to how you define works. Do you work for salvation....NO. It is a free gift. But can you lose that salvation by the works you do......YES. You can not say you believe in Christ, but serve satan by sinning on a regular basis without remorse, conviction, or repentance.

 

[SeaBass]

dude

Are you going to answer or not.

Does God need your works to prove your faith is real?

You taking DC's quote out of context is not helping your case. period

God does not need anything from me. Yet if I have the need and desire for God to save me, then my faith must be an obedient one as God has said.

God promised to save those that obey, Heb 5:9 and have vengeance upon those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8. These are two promises God made to me. Can God go back on his promises and lie?

 

[dcontroversal]

No verse say sanctification takes place while a sinner sits and does nothing. And what you posted did not answer the question; if man has no role in his own salvation then why does the bible say he must purge himself/purified his soul? If Christ's blood is what cleanses, purges, purifies the soul then why does the bible say this is something men do?

Sea PERCH re-read...SANCTIFICATION IS AN ON GOING PROCESS IN OUR PHYSICAL LIVES....

 

[notuptome]

So, that means you don't believe Hebrews 5:8 – 9 or second Thessalonians 1:7 –9, is that right?

Please consider the context of the verses you cite. Neither passage in any way relates to the contention that we must do anything except believe the gospel to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

Originally Posted by SeaBass

You posted "...you will work". That makes works essential to salvation.

You posted "If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus". This means LACK of works proves one is NOT saved which means works prove one is saved making works essential to salvation.


No one has argued one can earn salvation, so that is a non-issue.


If works have nothing at all to do with salvation, that means a person can do any kind of works he wants to in order to become a Christian. Can one become a Christian by doing evil, wicked sinful works? According to this thread he can.

It also means a Christian, instead of doing good works, can do evil, sinful, wicked works and still maintain his salvation since works have NOTHING at all to do with salvation.

SO, which is it SEA PERCH.......WORKS or NO WORKS FOR SALVATION?

NO ONE CAN EARN SALVATION or YOU HAVE TO DO WORKS FOR SALVATION?

MR. TWISTY SEA PERCH.....WHICH IS IT as you seem to contradict yourself.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is what scripture has always meant.
Those that hold to the principle of "sola scriptura" has produced thousands of ideas, notions, theories all under the agis that it is what scripture says. It is just amazing how many meanings scripture has when men can superimpose their intellectual acuity to a text.

And this is different? Men have done this since scripture was first written. Does that means scripture is not true. SHould be disregarded, should be done away with?

is it scriptures fault that men twist what it means, or mans fault?

So, from my vantage point, whatever it is that you believe is not more nor less valid than any other person pushing is own opinion. You could not disprove Mormonism, or Jehovah Witnesses or any other denomination group, sect using scripture the way you are using it. Why do you think all these groups exist in the first place.

lol. If you would look at scripture. you most certainly could disprove it. You just admitted you are incapable of rightly dividing the word of truth, WHy is this. When paul commands us ALL to rightly divide the word of truth, And now you saying this is not possible?

Wow is you my friend.

MOre unfounded assertions again. All for the purpose to denigrate the work of the Holy Spirit, to force your view upon scripture.

Unfounded assertions? Yuo do not know history very well do you? Maybe you need to study that also.

NOt that it is applicable, but Luther and Calvin did the same thing.

Well I do not follow either of them. I would be a fool to follow any man, because we are not told to follow men, But to USE SCRIPTURE to test what any man teaches.

Which is why Christ has never given His authority to individual men. He has always retained the Headship of His Body, and the Holy Spirit dwells only within that Body. But individual men have always been sinful, no more no less than today. History also shows that individual man has NEVER been able to impose his own views upon scripture.

Amen to that.

But history shows that even a layman can study scripture and find out how to be saved, Timothy we are told knew enough from just the OT and his study of such to know how to be saved.

Scripture is not the issue, men is the issue, And the Jews spent hundreds of years writting things outside of scripture. And saying exactly what your claiming, that scripture alone is error.

You have yet to learn from their mistake. why is that?