SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[Alligator]

http://christianchat.com/#

Well first of all Cassius.....I did quote scripture and the accusations began to fly by liars who twist truth to their own heretical view...kind of like you.....MAYBE you need glasses to read or a new light by your easy chair....the truth I teach came long before the reformation....maybe you are a member of one of the heretical churches that has ties to the catholic church...I don't know for sure...if you want to trust your works then have a ball...good luck...

Many will come before Christ trusting in their WORKS as their right to enter heaven...Jesus didn't know them as they trust in their works and their water.....maybe you fit that bill!

i hope the mods are taking note of all your cheap shots and personal attacks. Do you not know what the rules are or is it that you just don't care?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, dcontroversial made a big knot and you are trying to help him out of it.

No. You not understanding what he said does not make what he said wrong.

Dcontroversial said works are not for becoming saved but are done to show that one has been saved.

To show who? Ourselves or God.. It is obvious you do not know what he is saying.

so again i ask you. Does God need our work to prove we have true faith or does God already know?

The implication of dcontroversials' words is this:

No works = proof one is NOT saved

works = proof one IS saved

He unwittingly made works essential to being saved...unless he comes here and backtracks, uses some verbal gymnastics to now try and say works are not needed to prove one has been saved.

He is in the exact same knot here that he and other faith only proponents were in over my thread.

No, He did not unwittingly do anything.

To DC, His works proves to himself he is saved.

He understands he does not have to prove ANYTHING to God. God already knows.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Before you posted to me that works are works...

But now you changed direction for you answered "no". So we have it on "record" now you admitting all works are not alike. Which means when Paul, for example in Eph 2:9 said "not of works", he was NOT excluding all works for, as you admit, all works are not alike. Paul in Eph 2:9 was excluing works of merit and not obedient works in doing God's will. In Rom 6 Paul shows the necessity of obedient works and Paul does not contradict himself.

no we do not..

what we have on record is there is a huge difference between works which merit something, and works of God.

you deny this.. why?

and why did you completely take everything I said out of context and not discuss it.

typical legalist.

 

[crossnote]

Didn't you greasy grace grabbers know that the Gospel , the Good News, is all about believing hard enough so you will become obedient enough in order to do enough good works so you will be accepted enough by God? Didn't you know it's all about you? (hehe)

 

[chubbena]

Take Exodus as an example.

The Israelites were saved out of slavery in Egypt not because of their virtue but by His promise to their forefathers and also because they cried out to Him while in bondage.

It's only after they were saved did He tell them "if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, youwill be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

Not all of them were able to enter the promised land.

It's up to anyone's interpretation of "works".

c.f. 1 Corinthians 10

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's one of the silliest posts I've seen on this board.

so it is silly to ask if God needs us to prove our faith is real and does not know already?

I guess it would be silly if you have no faith in God or his omniscience. As you works based legalists evidently do not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

...and the strawman arguments start.

So the truth is stawman?? Get real dude, You can;t even answer if God need you to work to prove your faith. And yo uhave no desire to speak of works based on the love of God (his work) in you is different than works of merit.

That is a strawman!

Exactly where have I said one must do Seabass' works to be saved?

You say it everytime you state there is a difference between work of the law and works of Christ. Are you denying this now??

The bible plainly teaches that "self" plays a role in his own salavtion, Acts 2:40; 1 Tim 4:16; Phhil 2:12; 1 Pet 1:22.

God's role was in providing a way for man to be saved thought Christ. Man's role is to obey Christ, Heb 5:9, to take advantage of salvation God has offered.

Ah there you just said it again.

Mans role is to obey (WORK)

you just contradicted yourself.

which is it, Do we need works to be saved or not.. Your wishy washy here..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am just pointing out the contradictions (knots) that have been created.

The thread title is: "SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS"

See it? salvation ONLY possible WITHOUT works

Then dcontroversial turns around and says works are necessary to prove that one has been saved. That is NOT salvation being ONLY possible WITHOUT works, that makes salvation ONLY possible WITH works.

dude.

Why do you not just give it up.

Works prove to ourselves we are saved.

God does not need our works to prove our faith is real. HE KNOWS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Didn't you greasy grace grabbers know that the Gospel , the Good News, is all about believing hard enough so you will become obedient enough in order to do enough good works so you will be accepted enough by God? Didn't you know it's all about you? (hehe)

if they could only figure it out..lol

 

[Alligator]

so it is silly to ask if God needs us to prove our faith is real and does not know already?

I guess it would be silly if you have no faith in God or his omniscience. As you works based legalists evidently do not.

You just aren't listening are you? My faith is not works based, it is a faith-based belief with works also be necessary. If you want to debate me, then debate me, but not until you cease from misrepresenting what I believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Take Exodus as an example.

The Israelites were saved out of slavery in Egypt not because of their virtue but by His promise to their forefathers and also because they cried out to Him while in bondage.

It's only after they were saved did He tell them "if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, youwill be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

Not all of them were able to enter the promised land.

It's up to anyone's interpretation of "works".

c.f. 1 Corinthians 10

so abrahams covenant is based on them, and not on Gods promise.

Ok. thanks for that knowledge (or should I say, lack of understanding)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You just aren't listening are you? My faith is not works based, it is a faith-based belief with works also be necessary. If you want to debate me, then debate me, but not until you cease from misrepresenting what I believe.

No, Your not listening to yourself.

My faith is not based on works (in one breath)

But my faith is based with works (in another breath)

which is it??

Misrepresent what you believe?

Dude I was you for almost 20 years. I KNOW exactly what you believe.

Here is what God says,

My SALVATION is not based on work. My salvation is based on my faith.

My faith is not based on my works. My WORK is based on my faith.

Thus

My work can not gain me salvation, they are a RESULT of my salvation which is based on faith.

Your trying to earn your salvation based on faith PLUS works. which is not what God says, Especially when you say one can LOSE salvation if they have not done enough work.

 

[Alligator]

You here are contradicting your own thread.

According to what you posted here, one must have works for those works are proof he has been saved. Yet if one has no works, those lack of works proves he is NOT SAVED. In all of your twisting, you twisted yourself into a self-contradicting knot.

No, Your not listening to yourself.

My faith is not based on works (in one breath)

But my faith is based with works (in another breath)

which is it??

Misrepresent what you believe?

Dude I was you for almost 20 years. I KNOW exactly what you believe.

Here is what God says,

My SALVATION is not based on work. My salvation is based on my faith.

My faith is not based on my works. My WORK is based on my faith.

Thus

My work can not gain me salvation, they are a RESULT of my salvation which is based on faith.

Your trying to earn your salvation based on faith PLUS works. which is not what God says, Especially when you say one can LOSE salvation if they have not done enough work.

Which is it? It's BOTH. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? And here we go with the strawman yet
again by saying that if I believe works are necessary, then that means I'm trying to earn my salvation. I'm convinced more and more that you have to misrepresent me because you simply can't defend your position any other way.

 

[damombomb]

you are decieved

Shame on you. You do realize the rich young ruler followed all the commands, but not Jesus.
And Paul was a murderer saved by grace. Imagine how he felt after grace was poured upon him.
And what is wrong with the military? They had plenty in the bible.
Grace is something we do not deserve. God could have wiped us all out and started over.
Thank God he preaches grace to unbelievers. After you have tasted Gods goodness, you
do not want to sin, but if you do ( which it does not all happen overnight either) he is faithful
to forgive us. Where you born sinless? Do you ever sin? Have you broken one commandment?
If so, you are guilty of all. I bet you don't even reply to this.

 

[Alligator]

Shame on you. You do realize the rich young ruler followed all the commands, but not Jesus.
And Paul was a murderer saved by grace. Imagine how he felt after grace was poured upon him.
And what is wrong with the military? They had plenty in the bible.
Grace is something we do not deserve. God could have wiped us all out and started over.
Thank God he preaches grace to unbelievers. After you have tasted Gods goodness, you
do not want to sin, but if you do ( which it does not all happen overnight either) he is faithful
to forgive us. Where you born sinless? Do you ever sin? Have you broken one commandment?
If so, you are guilty of all. I bet you don't even reply to this.

Well are you addressing this to me? If so, let me say I agree with most of that, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

 

[notuptome]

One must believe to be saved, Jn 8:24. One must repent of his sins to be sved, Lk 13:3,5.

One must confess to be saved, Matt 10:32,33. One must be baptized to be saved, Mk 16:16.

This is what the gospel says and what I am saying.

Mark 16:16 is questionable to many bible scholars.

Any how Paul defines the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5. Teach that and you do well. Continue to teach what you have been teaching and you will reap of your efforts consequences you do not expect.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

So the truth is stawman?? Get real dude, You can;t even answer if God need you to work to prove your faith. And yo uhave no desire to speak of works based on the love of God (his work) in you is different than works of merit.

That is a strawman!



You say it everytime you state there is a difference between work of the law and works of Christ. Are you denying this now??




Ah there you just said it again.

Mans role is to obey (WORK)

you just contradicted yourself.

which is it, Do we need works to be saved or not.. Your wishy washy here..

Here is dcontroversials' post #17 in blue:

The only person that you have proven wrong is yourself based upon the following...

1. Scripture twisted out of context
2. Scripture twisted out of context
3. Scripture twisted out of context

FAITH------>produces works
Works------>do not, cannot save as they are evidence OF SALVATION

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Nobody is teaching that once saved you can live any way you want.....
Because of BIBLICAL salvation...we want to and can serve God acceptably which includes KEEPING the word of God which HAS NO BEARING ON OUR SALVATION!

He plainly posted "They (works) are evidence of salvation". The implication is lack of works is evidence one is not saved.


He also posted "Faith----produces works" Can a faith that does not produce works still save? Or is it that a saving faith MUST produce works making those works just as essential to salvation?

He also posted "Nobody is teaching that once saved you can live any way you want....."

If works have nothing at all to do with salvation, that means a person can do any kind of works he wants to in order to become a Christian. Can one become a Christian by doing evil, wicked sinful works? According to this thread he can.

It also means a Christian, instead of doing good works, can do evil, sinful, wicked works and still maintain his salvation since works have NOTHING at all to do with salvation.


"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."


The works of Acts 2:40; 1 TIm 4:16 etc are obedient works in foing God's will. Which are the kind of works that do save, which is what I have been saying all along.

 

[Timeline]

First, the thread title says one does not have to do works to be saved.

Your statement above contradicts the title of the thread. So does one have to do or not do works to be saved?

You are getting youself tied up in dcontroversials knot.

dc was just trying to be controversial (is that better dc). The point is you are saved before works...except for those that consider breathing work. Jesus paid it all. We accept Jesus and they we work because we are grateful, NOT BECAUSE WE ARE EARNING OUR SALVATION - No one can earn their salvation! Paul is very clear on this.

 

[damombomb]

Well are you addressing this to me? If so, let me say I agree with most of that, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

No, sorry

 

[Alligator]

No, sorry

No problem