SAVED BY WORKS

haz · Mar 2, 2015

You won't find anyone actually defending salvation by works.
Instead you will find some here who preach a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

But works of the law cannot be mixed with grace.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

The only works that results in salvation are the works Jesus told us to do in John 6:29. These works are to believe on Jesus.

Mitspa · Mar 2, 2015

SeaBass said:

No you submit to Gods righteousness in faith, when you admit the truth you have none of your own and cannot attain by works of the law. That's the purpose of the law to make all guilty and submit to Christ.

Mitspa · Mar 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Actually the word means to make it appear as something its not...its the legalist that try to make grace appear as license to sin, that's who Jude is rebuking!

The same charge they made against Paul and the gospel from the beginning ...

SeaBass · Mar 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jesus said Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah and Jonah 3 says the king lead the city to repent and "God saw their works, that they turned from their evil" Repentance is work that God saw as faith is a work Christ saw in Mk 2:1-5. As the bible ties works to faith making faith a work it does the same with repentance.

2 Cor 7:10 godly sorrow WORKETH repentance UNTO (not "because of") salvation. Paul said to "work out your own salvation" and repentance is part of that work.
Acts 26:20 one is to repent, turn to God, and continue to do works worthy of repentance, live as one who has repented should live. What are the works worthy of repentance? Keeping Christ's commands Jn 14:15 including the command to be baptized. One who has not turned from serving sin to serving obedience unto righteousness (becoming servant of righteousness) (Rom 6:16) has not repented.

Mk 16:16; Acts 2:28; ROm 6:3-6; 1 Cor 1:13,14; Gal 3:27; Col 2:12-14; 1 Pet 3:21 etc etc all show baptism saves.

SeaBass · Mar 2, 2015

Mitspa said:

No one can be saved by works of the OT law. One is saved by obeying/submitting to Christ's NT law/gospel.

You say yourself one SUBMITS to Gods righteousness in faith. Submitting is obeying, a work in obeying God's righteous commands.

Again, Paul said those Jews were lost for not OBEYING/SUBMITTING unto the righteousness (commands) of God. Paul is saying they were lost for not having obedient works in obeying God's commands. Those Paul was writing to in Rome had obeyed from the heart, then justified Rom 6:17,18 yet these lost Jews in Rom 10:1-3 would NOT obey from the heart that form of doctrine leaving them unjustified/not freed from sin.

BradC · Mar 2, 2015

psychomom said:

I don't think you are being very clear on that point. Would you care to expound a little?

Jason0047 · Mar 2, 2015

SeaBass said:

Who worketh Godly sorrow within people? God or ungodly people? It's God. For there is none righteous. No not one. For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

For Scripture says God grants people repentance.

2 Timothy 2:25 says, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Acts 11:18 says, When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Hebrews 12:17 says, For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

So Godly sorrow is given by God. Hence, why it is called Godly sorrow.

For it is God which WORKETH in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by God's grace, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:10 says we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. So here we see we are created in Christ Jesus. To be created in Christ Jesus means we have a citizenship with Him. We are a new creation. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Corinthians 5:17). This is because of the new birth. Titus 3:5-7 says, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Now, works comes in with verse 8: It says, This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Jason0047 · Mar 2, 2015

Mitspa said:

No, when you are talking about God's grace you are talking about salvation (See Ephesians 2:8-9). Jude 1:4 talks about God's grace and how these types of false believers have turned God's grace into a license to sin (or a license for immorality, or lasciviousness). The legalist is seeking to add laws and rules where none exist under the New Testament. I imagine some of them might be hypocritcal like the pharisees by not doing the weightier matters of the law like having justice, love, and mercy, etc.; but not all legalists are out to disobey God and break His commands. They are wrongfully seeking to be justified by the Law instead of being justified by God's grace (Which is a free gift). They are still working to save themselves when they have not entered into Christ's rest. Jude 1:4 is in reference to the Antinomian who does not believe the moral law does not apply to him. They have gone the way of Cain. Cain was not a legalist. Cain was a murderer of his own brother. He killed his brother and did not actually feel any sorrow over what he did. He just was sorry about his punishment and not that he actually did something bad. This is the Antinomian. They lie, steal, cheat, lust, hate, and yet there is no real Godly sorrow convicting them to admit their guilt before God by confessing it and forsaking it with the Lord's help. They feed themselves amongst the other true brethren. They slipped in unaware. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. They have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof. They deny the Lord with their works. For Jesus said we will know a good tree from a bad tree by their fruit. It's not that works or the fruit saves you in and of itself. No, no. Works or fruit is merely the proof or test that somebody has been saved by God's grace (Apart from the deeds of the Law).

Jason0047 · Mar 2, 2015

SeaBass said:

Scripture says bring forth fruit (works) worthy of repentance. Repentance can be in reference to both confessing your sin and in turning from your sin and or evil. But repentance is not in reference to good works, though. For we are to bring forth fruit or works worthy of repentance. We do not bring forth fruits or works which is repentance. That doesn't make any sense. Good works then flow as a byproduct when people confess and turn from their evil ways. For example, when somebody stops stealing, this is turning from evil. Good works would be they start giving to their neighbor instead of stealing from them. Good works is not in turning from your evil. The passage says, God saw their works (i.e. good works) and they turned from their evil (i.e. repentance). One is good works and the other is repentance.

SeaBass · Mar 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Godly sorrow works repentance. The sinner has the godly sorrow that moves him to work repentance. And it is UNTO salvation not "because of" salvation. So this godly sorrow that works repentance must happen BEFORE one can be saved.

The verses you posted do not say one can repent only if God says he can repent for that idea put moral culpability upon God for the impenitent. Men would be lost for GOD'S failure to make them repent. Why would Peter command men to repent in Acts 2:38 if they could not possible do so or only do so if God makes them? It would make no sense. The imperative to repent shows that man has both the ability and responsibility to obey that command. When the bible says God grants men repentance means God has given man the gift of repentance and opportunity to repent and man must choose to repent if he desires to be saved.

It is God's will that all men come to repentance and be saved. If God alone determines who will or will not repent, then evidently all men will be saved. But all men are not saved for all will not choose to repent. They are not lost due to God preventing them from repenting.

Those in 2 Tim 2:25 are those that are so deep in sin they refuse to repent, and the thought is to pray to God that God will in some providential way show their sin to them so they will come to the truth. If 2 Tim 2:25 means a man cannot repent only if God gives him that ability to repent then what does 2 Pet 3:9 mean?

In Heb 12:17 is saying Esau sought repentance in that he could not change the mind of Isaac no matter how many tears Esau shed, for what was done was done and could not be changed.
Heb 12:17 ASV "For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no place for a change of mind in his father, though he sought it diligently with tears."

SeaBass · Mar 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

If one does not do works worthy of repentance, then has he repented? NO!

That means there is an obvious tie between repentance and works so much so that repenting is not possible without works...making repentance itself a work. It also goes to prove that repentance is no just some 'mental assent of the mind' and nothing more.

A lost sinner is one who serves sin. Can he "mentally" repent and continue to commit sin and not obey the commands of Christ, not 'obey unto righteousness'.....can we say he has repented? No. The fruits of his repentance that proves he has repented are his WORKS, his now obeying Christ becoming a servant of righteousness, Rom 6:18.

You posted:" For example, when somebody stops stealing, this is turning from evil."

Can we agree that just his "turning from evil" is not enough, it is NOT repentance? One cannot just turn from evil and do nothing more and say they have biblically repented.

A bank robber cannot just stop robbing banks and do nothing more and saying he has biblically repented. He must not only stop robbing banks but must also 'turn to God', he must start obeying God, that is, work righteousness to be accepted with God, Acts 10:35. He has NOT REPENTED until he turns to God and starts obeying God. If he just stops robbing banks and nothing more then he remains impenitent/lost.

My point in Jonah 3:10 is Nineveh repented and what God saw that is called "works" was their repentance. Repentance is work that can be seen just as the robber who stops robbing banks, turns and obeys God. His obedient works (that can be seen) is repentance. Without those obedient works he remains impenitent.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Mar 2, 2015

No saved by works here.......

Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4:6,7
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 5:17,18
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Phillipians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 8:3,4
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4,5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 9:31,32
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 1:12,13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Isaiah 45:22
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Roman 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:27,28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Hebrews 2:9,10
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:14,15
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 10:10-12
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hebrewws 10:17,18
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

2 Corinthians 1:9
But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2 Corinthians 1:10
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Ephesians 1:12,13
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Job 25:4
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Isaiah 12:2
Indeed, God is my salvation; I will trust Him and not be afraid, for Yah, the LORD, is my strength and my song. He has become my salvation."

Luke 18:9-14
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5,6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 3:20
Therefore, God will not justify any human being by means of the actions prescribed by the Law, for through the Law comes the full knowledge of sin.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Acts 16:30,31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Luke 7:49,50
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 2:5,6
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eccelesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

John 6:28,29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3:23-25
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

James 2:10,11
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Romans 5:8,9
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Matthew 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Acts 15:10,11
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Matthew 19:25,26
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Timothy 2:6
who gave Himself--a ransom for all, a testimony at the proper time.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Galatians 3:24
The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith.

Hebrews 9:12-14
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Timothy 1:15
This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"--and I am the worst of them.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

SeaBass · Mar 2, 2015

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Obedient works justifies/frees from sin (Rom 6:17,18/James 2:24) and no one can be save while unjustified so one must do obedient works to be saved. Doing nothing/unrighteousness just leaves one lost.

Christ saves, but who does He save? Them that obey Him, not those that do nothing.

Heb 9:5 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Jason0047 · Mar 2, 2015

SeaBass said:

Why Calvinists are wrong:

God does not create evil or do anything that is a mistake. God does not create people just so that they can burn. God created mankind with a free will to choose Him or to not to choose Him. The moment one claims that God forced people to go to Hell against their free will choice is to make God out to be evil (pure and simple). However, God is good and He is not evil. He is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:19 KJV).

Why some Arminians are wrong:

Some Arminians are so die hard to defend "free will" that God plays no part in drawing someone to them and or giving them repentance. This is just not the case. Yes, we have the free will to choose God (Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV) but no man can come to the Father unless he draws them (John 6:44 KJV), and no man can repent for it is God that grants someone repentance (2 Timothy 2:25 KJV). Then how do we choose God of our own "free will" if it is God that draws us and grants us repentance? Because God is Eternal and is outside of linear time and knows the future "free will" choices of everyone. God knows those who will accept Him and who will reject Him. For in the Lord's love He gives the damned no excuse for their rebellion against Him because He offered freely the gift of salvation for all people. His loving arms were extended to them but they slapped them away. This way the person who rejects Jesus cannot say to the Lord at the Judgment, "You see, I was already damned because my sins were never paid for." However, this person's sins were paid for because Jesus is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the entire world. They just refused to repent and accept Jesus (i.e. God's love gift) and have condemned themselves to die in their sins (For they refused the sacrifice for their life personally). So they are without excuse.

For the Elect are those who accept the Lord's free love gift of Jesus Christ of their own "free will" choice whereby they are forgiven of their sins against God. God merely knowing their future "free will" choice towards Him had drawn them to Him and granted them repentance. For God Elects us based on His foreknowledge (See verse 2 in: 1 Peter 1:1, 2). God does not make some people to go to Heaven and some people to go to Hell. God does not force anyone into being a certain way. For if God forced us to love Him, it would not longer be true love. It would be a forced love. So it is by free will choice. A free will choice that God is aware of since the beginning of linear time. For God has declared the End from the Beginning (Isaiah 46:10 KJV).

For we exist on a linear time line (within the present). God is Eternal and He exists outside of linear time (Which would place God's existence in living in the past, present, and future).

Jason0047 · Mar 2, 2015

SeaBass said:

If one does not do works worthy of repentance, then has he repented? NO!

That means there is an obvious tie between repentance and works so much so that repenting is not possible without works...making repentance itself a work. It also goes to prove that repentance is no just some 'mental assent of the mind' and nothing more.

A lost sinner is one who serves sin. Can he "mentally" repent and continue to commit sin and not obey the commands of Christ, not 'obey unto righteousness'.....can we say he has repented? No. The fruits of his repentance that proves he has repented are his WORKS, his now obeying Christ becoming a servant of righteousness, Rom 6:18.

You posted:" For example, when somebody stops stealing, this is turning from evil."

Can we agree that just his "turning from evil" is not enough, it is NOT repentance? One cannot just turn from evil and do nothing more and say they have biblically repented.

A bank robber cannot just stop robbing banks and do nothing more and saying he has biblically repented. He must not only stop robbing banks but must also 'turn to God', he must start obeying God, that is, work righteousness to be accepted with God, Acts 10:35. He has NOT REPENTED until he turns to God and starts obeying God. If he just stops robbing banks and nothing more then he remains impenitent/lost.

My point in Jonah 3:10 is Nineveh repented and what God saw that is called "works" was their repentance. Repentance is work that can be seen just as the robber who stops robbing banks, turns and obeys God. His obedient works (that can be seen) is repentance. Without those obedient works he remains impenitent.

Holiness and Good works is the fruit of salvation. It is not the means for salvation. Again, read Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 in prayer again. To believe we are saved by works is to put the cart before the horse.

psychomom · Mar 2, 2015

BradC said:

well, leave it to me to be unclear.

the Lord Jesus. He began the good work in me; He will be faithful to complete it.
His Perfect life, His atoning sacrifice, His resurrection.
the Lord Jesus paid it all; did it all, so that i may rely on all the promises of God summed
up in Him. and He spoke the most lovely words: It is finished. ♥

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness
i dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name...

dcontroversal · Mar 2, 2015

psychomom said:

I agree....I have been saved, justified and sanctified based upon the completed WORK of Christ and HIS FAITH.......at the end of the day it is ALL JESUS and what he has done/is doing and that is why it is a FREE GIFT of GRACE.....not of WORKS lest ANYMAN should, could or would boast.............!

RickyZ · Mar 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

God does not create evil or do anything that is a mistake. QUOTE]

I used to think that, but then God says in Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Oops! Derail! Sorry

BradC · Mar 2, 2015

psychomom said:

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Those are surely the most loving words ever spoken by a man who suffered so much on the cross on our behalf. We hear all the time in court cases whether justice has or has nor been met. In the case of (John 19:30) justice was met and it even pleased (delighted) the Father to bruise the Son making his soul an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10).

psychomom · Mar 2, 2015

BradC said:

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Those are surely the most loving words ever spoken by a man who suffered so much on the cross on our behalf. We hear all the time in court cases whether justice has or has nor been met. In the case of (John 19:30) justice was met and it even pleased (delighted) the Father to bruise the Son making his soul an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10).

amazing grace!

Heb 2:9-11

SAVED BY WORKS

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