Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

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ember

Guest
Good idea. Why don't you set a good example.

check the thread...I have set a good example

I don't respond to you folk for the most part and I advise anyone who actually does want to pursue peace, to do the same

this thread is not edifying and it is a perfect example of those who cause division

I won't answer you again, so you can post smart aleck replies till you feel justified
 
Sep 4, 2012
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check the thread...I have set a good example

I don't respond to you folk for the most part and I advise anyone who actually does want to pursue peace, to do the same

this thread is not edifying and it is a perfect example of those who cause division

I won't answer you again, so you can post smart aleck replies till you feel justified
It's not edifying for you. That's a good reason for you to stay away, as well as any others who don't find it edifying.
 
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Of course we can fall short of grace..by going back tot he law..the whole book of Galatians is about Juadizers coming in and adding the law unto those in Christ. Gal. 5:4

Here is a short 13 min video that speaks about this for those that like to watch videos

[video=youtube;h2c0SbFim6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2c0SbFim6w[/video]
No you are wrong, you don't fall from grace by repenting of your sins to walk in the newness of life by learning and keeping the commandments of God. You are so misrepresenting Paul's teachings about the dispersed Israelites not being under the curse of the law anymore. And that we serve in the Spirit and not according to the letter of carnal sacrificial ordinances. No matter how much people try to show you this you completely ignore everything about it and keep on spamming a few chosen verses over and over again that you are misrepresenting and putting in your own opinions about it and creating new religious doctrine which the bible says nothing about. Are you serious when saying people who are repenting of their sins and striving to learn and live holy lives by keeping God's laws in faith of being saved from living in their sins are committing whoredom and adultery and are defying God ? Are you really saying God's righteous judgments on how we are to conduct ourselves in serving him are no longer true and righteous ? You are ignoring an awe-full amount of scripture that debunks your grace without repentance only doctrine and you need to stop!
 
Jan 7, 2015
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This thread is based on the Bible and scripture concerning how the Holy Spirit foretold of how some in the last days would be led astray by false doctrines and fall away from the faith. This falling away prophecy should be of great concern for many Christians, but many have already been deceived and have believed the lies that it is not possible for a believer to fall away from the faith and lose salvation.

I have used multitudes of scriptures to prove my points in my OP and in the following posts. But some have come on this thread just to try to mock me and the thread and call it a curse, unedifying, divisive, yada, yada, yada.

Perhaps why they hate the thread so much is because the Truth offends some whose conscience is not clean concerning these matters? Perhaps it is a curse to those who are cursed? No matter what you think of me, this is a Bible discussion forum, not your own personal opinion forum of what you think of me or my threads. :)
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Of course we can fall short of grace..by going back tot he law
But yet according to Hyper grace doctrine you cannot fall away and lose salvation by going back to your sinful ways? Again this lawless doctrine is what was foretold of concerning the son of perdition=man of lawlessness and the falling away from the faith.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have ears to hear let them hear what the Spirit is saying! :)
 
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(snip) Are you really saying God's righteous judgments on how we are to conduct ourselves in serving him are no longer true and righteous ? You are ignoring an awe-full amount of scripture that debunks your grace without repentance only doctrine and you need to stop!
It's obvious you are a bit confused. Grace believers say the exact opposite of what you said above., We say we should be repenting every time we hear a new truth about the awesome work our Lord Jesus did for us in His finished work on the Cross and resurrection.

Here are posts from other threads that will help you to catch up on what is really being said regarding repentance. We love repentance!!! It's is a wonderful gift from our good, loving Father.

Post #17

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-repented-false-condemnation.html#post2626391

Post #22

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...epented-false-condemnation-2.html#post2626403

Post #34

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...epented-false-condemnation-2.html#post2626431

Actually there are a lot of good posts in that thread which should give you a clearer understanding of what is being said about repentance.

Here is a great video about how some words have been "hi-jacked" by man-made traditions and have been changed from their true meaning as the word was used when the scriptures were written. It will bless you when you know the truth and the awesomeness our Lord's salvation.

[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]
 
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PeacefulWarrior

Guest
But yet according to Hyper grace doctrine you cannot fall away and lose salvation by going back to your sinful ways? Again this lawless doctrine is what was foretold of concerning the son of perdition=man of lawlessness and the falling away from the faith.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have ears to hear let them hear what the Spirit is saying! :)
Has "Hyper-Grace Doctrine" been defined in this thread? Just curious because your post was the first I read and there are 17 pages already...
 
Sep 4, 2012
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This thread is based on the Bible and scripture concerning how the Holy Spirit foretold of how some in the last days would be led astray by false doctrines and fall away from the faith. This falling away prophecy should be of great concern for many Christians, but many have already been deceived and have believed the lies that it is not possible for a believer to fall away from the faith and lose salvation.

I have used multitudes of scriptures to prove my points in my OP and in the following posts. But some have come on this thread just to try to mock me and the thread and call it a curse, unedifying, divisive, yada, yada, yada.

Perhaps why they hate the thread so much is because the Truth offends some whose conscience is not clean concerning these matters? Perhaps it is a curse to those who are cursed? No matter what you think of me, this is a Bible discussion forum, not your own personal opinion forum of what you think of me or my threads. :)
The modus operandi of a select group here is to stir up trouble and divisiveness with accusations and complaints about topics and comments that they don't like; then blame the trouble and divisiveness they've caused on the person who made the comment; and then offer the solution that such ideas should be banned from discussion, thus making peace. I could name names and embarrass every one of them (because I know who you are), but I will refrain in the interest of peace, hoping that they will have the sense to realize that we know your game and will expose you when you do it again.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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This thread is based on the Bible and scripture concerning how the Holy Spirit foretold of how some in the last days would be led astray by false doctrines and fall away from the faith. This falling away prophecy should be of great concern for many Christians, but many have already been deceived and have believed the lies that it is not possible for a believer to fall away from the faith and lose salvation.

I have used multitudes of scriptures to prove my points in my OP and in the following posts. But some have come on this thread just to try to mock me and the thread and call it a curse, unedifying, divisive, yada, yada, yada.

Perhaps why they hate the thread so much is because the Truth offends some whose conscience is not clean concerning these matters? Perhaps it is a curse to those who are cursed? No matter what you think of me, this is a Bible discussion forum, not your own personal opinion forum of what you think of me or my threads. :)
quote " I used multitudes of Scripture to prove my point" end quote.

so there you have it- using the Bible to form personal theology instead of using the Bible AS theology.
 
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popeye

Guest
Has "Hyper-Grace Doctrine" been defined in this thread? Just curious because your post was the first I read and there are 17 pages already...
I don't even think the op has been addressed.

Spirits seducing

Devil's doctrine


We all know there is only one "devil", and all his demons have abandoned their "kill,steal,and destroy mode",to manifest as charasmatics,WOF,and Joyce Meyers.

So,it must be God in fornication,homos,and murders.

Can we say together; WRONG BATTLE?
 
May 28, 2016
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It's obvious you are a bit confused. Grace believers say the exact opposite of what you said above., We say we should be repenting every time we hear a new truth about the awesome work our Lord Jesus did for us in His finished work on the Cross and resurrection.

Here are posts from other threads that will help you to catch up on what is really being said regarding repentance. We love repentance!!! It's is a wonderful gift from our good, loving Father.

Post #17

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-repented-false-condemnation.html#post2626391

Post #22

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...epented-false-condemnation-2.html#post2626403

Post #34

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...epented-false-condemnation-2.html#post2626431

Actually there are a lot of good posts in that thread which should give you a clearer understanding of what is being said about repentance.

Here is a great video about how some words have been "hi-jacked" by man-made traditions and have been changed from their true meaning as the word was used when the scriptures were written. It will bless you when you know the truth and the awesomeness our Lord's salvation.

[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]
I agree that we receive Jesus Christ solely upon faith and believing, but we must not forget John the baptist who came to prepare the way of our Saviour with the baptism of repentance. That is the attitude we need to have in order to receive Jesus Christ, to admit that we are sinners and have the will to turn from living in them and come back to the Father by being obedient. It is the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves us with this attitude (1 Peter 3:21):

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

People who are to receive Jesus Christ by being baptized of the Spirit into the body of Christ need to have this attitude towards their sins and about turning back to the Fathers commandments and not wanting to repeat them again. One does not always automatically get baptized into the body by hearing the gospel preached like the instance with them that heard Peter preach (Acts 10:44). Some people need to gain or or show this attitude of repentance in order to be baptized into the body of Christ, and the evidence of that good conscience towards Christ is the fruit that follows. Born again believers are to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and strive for holiness by purifying their spirit and keeping of the commandments.

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Now grace is the divine influence upon the heart that leads us to repentance of our sins and to Jesus Christ.
 
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I agree that we receive Jesus Christ solely upon faith and believing, but we must not forget John the baptist who came to prepare the way of our Saviour with the baptism of repentance. That is the attitude we need to have in order to receive Jesus Christ, to admit that we are sinners and have the will to turn from living in them and come back to the Father by being obedient. It is the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves us with this attitude (1 Peter 3:21):

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

People who are to receive Jesus Christ by being baptized of the Spirit into the body of Christ need to have this attitude towards their sins and about turning back to the Fathers commandments and not wanting to repeat them again. One does not always automatically get baptized into the body by hearing the gospel preached like the instance with them that heard Peter preach (Acts 10:44). Some people need to gain or or show this attitude of repentance in order to be baptized into the body of Christ, and the evidence of that good conscience towards Christ is the fruit that follows. Born again believers are to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and strive for holiness by purifying their spirit and keeping of the commandments.

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Now grace is the divine influence upon the heart that leads us to repentance of our sins and to Jesus Christ.
Amen..I agree with most of what you are saying. I don't quite agree with this statement below or maybe I am interpreting it differently then what you meant it to be?

"One does not always automatically get baptized into the body by hearing the gospel preached like the instance with them that heard Peter preach (Acts 10:44).

Those at Cornelius' house believed when they heard the gospel and they received the Holy Sprit before they did anything about any sin. Peter did not say one word about repentance in that message but they did repent ( changed their mind ) to believe what Jesus has done for them. Namely all their sins were forgiven through His name.

One does have to believe in Jesus in order to be baptized into the body of Christ if that is what you mean. The "fruits" of repentance after coming to Christ will reflect in an exchanged life and as we grow in Him - our outward behavior will reflect our new nature in Christ - in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness
.

The grace of God is conditional...as one must believe...

There is a process...first "listen to the message of truth"...then "believe" ..then we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit in our inner man as the Lord becomes one with our spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Here is Peter telling the Jewish council what happened at Cornelius' house with those gentiles.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

 
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Does it have to be? It's a reasonably well defined teaching that anyone can find on the internet. Just search hyper + grace + doctrine + of + demons. :cool:
That is the definition of self-proclaimed heretic hunters who don't agree with some aspects of grace or they don't understand what is really being said, so of course everyone jumps on the band-wagon with their dis-like and are quick to condemn what they believe to be different. It's the typical heretic-hunter MO.


Here is a post from our very own JGIG here on CC.

Not stupid at all. What is hyper-grace? It's a pejorative term used to refer to the Gospel of Grace. Here's an article I wrote on the subject. There are several links embedded if you wish to look further into the matter :).

Grace and peace,
-JGIG


What About ‘Hyper-Grace’???

Posted on February 26, 2014 by JGIG
What About ‘Hyper-Grace’???

Over the past year or so (starting in 2013), a manufactured label, ‘Hyper-Grace’, has been made popular and applied to the Gospel of Grace. Personally, I embrace the term, because in my opinion, the Living God coming to Earth as a man to die for oursin and bear the judgement due us, and then to give those who believe the gift of Righteousness and New Life in order to reconcile us to Himself is a pretty Hyper Grace!

That aside, not all believers embrace the term, and many are uncomfortable with the concept of pure Grace. Rather those who mix Law and Grace use the term as aderogatory label, on which they pile false accusations about what the Gospel of Grace is and how those who walk in Grace live their lives.



A main instigator in applying the Hyper-Grace label to Grace-embracing believers is Dr. Michael Brown. Understand that Dr. Brown is a respected theologian, and many take what he says quite seriously, seeing him as a credible source sounding a valid alarm – “Christians are seeing Grace as a license to sin!”,“Hyper-Grace teachings are leading to ‘grace horror stories!’” and the hyperbolic like.

You can do a search with Dr. Brown’s name and ‘Hyper-Grace’ and get a number of video teachings and interviews that he’s done on the subject, as well as an assortment of articles regarding the Hyper-Grace label/concept. Note the ‘tabloidesque’ flavor to his interviews with Sid Roth, and the unbridled discussion about how this ‘hyper-grace’ can (and in their opinion does) lead to the loss of salvation.

How do you avoid losing your salvation?

By not sinning, of course!

How do you keep from sinning?

By keeping laws/commandments/rules . . . whatever the circle of like-minded folks you surround yourself with deems appropriate as the Biblical standard.

And if you do sin?

Repeated confession and repentance to God for sins that, according to their theology, God will hold against you if you don’t!
This of course, is contrary to contextual Scriptures (John 3:16-18, Romans 5, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1-2 for starters
).

Many of the resources available on the Audio and Text Resources page here at JGIG refute the ‘Hyper-Grace’ hype, giving a Biblical defense for the Gospel of Grace.

Rob Rufus actually recorded a teaching entitled, ‘A Biblical Defense of the Gospel of Grace‘ several years before Dr. Brown made the ‘Hyper-Grace’ label popular. A video version of the teaching can be viewed, as well:







Paul Ellis, author at the site, Escape to Reality, author of The Gospel in Ten Words, and The Gospel in Twenty Questions (links also in the left sidebar below), took the issue head on in “Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown, which garnered a few hundred comments in a good, lively discussion. One more (of many) good articles found at his site in line with what we’re discussing here: Confession, Conviction, Confusion!


When Dr. Brown’s book on ‘Hyper-Grace’ came out, D.R. Silva put together a good resource rebutting the common argumentsagainst Grace. Silva builds a solid defense for the Gospel of Grace in about 68 pages, whereas Brown’s book spends 304 pages trying to refute the Gospel of Grace and expound on its ‘dangers’.D.R. Silva does reference Dr. Brown in his book, but I think it’s important to note that Hyper-Grace: The Dangerous Doctrine of a Happy God is not primarily a refutation of Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message (dangerous stuff, that Grace of God!!!), but rather a Biblical defense of the Grace position, taking on the common arguments/accusations leveled by those who mischaracterize the Grace position.‘Grace is good, But . . . !’ should have been the title for Dr. Brown’s book. A good audio by Rob Rufus, a teaching recorded several years ago, is available with a similar title: Grace is Good – No Buts!


Edited to add 4/7/14:

Paul Ellis has published a book entitled, “The Hyper-Grace Gospel: A Response to Michael Brown and Those Opposed to the Modern Grace Message“,
where he also provides an outline of the content, which systematically addresses the false perceptions of the Gospel of Grace as well as responds to specific assertions made by Dr. Brown. Ellis puts together a definitive, clear presentation first and foremost of the Gospel of Grace. Highly recommended:


A good video review of D.R. Silva’s book can be found here: Book Review “Hyper Grace – the Dangerous Doctrine of a Happy God



So if someone warns you of the ‘dangers’ of ‘Hyper-Grace’, the Audio and Text Resources, Video Resources, and The Gospel pages have lots of materials to support the Biblical Gospel of Grace, and this article has given you a few specific resources (click on the embedded links) to help you defend the Gospel of Grace with confidence and good humor. [Added 5/4/14 – And more good humor.]
And Grace \o/..




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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PeacefulWarrior

Guest
I don't even think the op has been addressed.

Spirits seducing

Devil's doctrine


We all know there is only one "devil", and all his demons have abandoned their "kill,steal,and destroy mode",to manifest as charasmatics,WOF,and Joyce Meyers.

So,it must be God in fornication,homos,and murders.

Can we say together; WRONG BATTLE?
I think I'll check out of this thread then--thanks!

1 Peter 5:8-9 New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. 9 Stand firm against him, and be strong in your faith. Remember that your family of believers[a] all over the world is going through the same kind of suffering you are.
Footnotes:


  1. 5:9 Greek your brotherhood.
 
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Here is another one from JGIG outlining some areas that are mis-represented by some - especially the self-proclaimed heretic hunters.

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections

Is Hyper-Grace “dangerous” or “imbalanced”?

Author: Jeremy White/Thursday, August 21, 2014/Categories: Jeremy White, Top Picks


Introduction:

In recent times, a label has surfaced regarding what some view as a “dangerous” or “imbalanced” teaching of the grace of God. “Hyper-Grace” is now a term being used to suggest that there are some folks (such as myself) who “take God’s grace too far” and in so doing either ignore or minimize other significant teachings of the Bible.

What follows is an attempt to address a few of the most common “warnings” some have offered regarding those of us who make much of the finished work of Christ.

Objection #1: The Hyper-Grace Gospel is Unbiblical


For starters, you may be shocked to discover that “hyper-grace” is really the only adequate description for grace in the first place, according to the Bible. For example, when Paul wrote in Romans 5:20 that “…where sin increased, grace increased all the more” he was literally referring to God’s grace as “hyper.”

The Greek term for the phrase “increased all the more” (NIV) is huper-perisseuo which literally means “super-abounded.” Hyper is simply a transliteration of the prefix “huper” in Greek and means “above and beyond” in scope or quality. The term “perisseuo” refers to that which is “in far excess of what might be expected, superfluous or gratuitous.”

So in Paul’s description of God’s amazing grace, he is literally saying that because of the abundance of sin in this world, God’s grace has super-abounded in order to rescue us from sin! Paul literally describes God’s grace as HYPER in this passage. It is super-abundant and unfathomably plentiful and powerful. In fact, a few verses later Paul would state that the very reason sin is no longer our master is because we are no longer under law, but under this hyper-abounding grace (Rom. 6:14)!

If this is what one means by “hyper-grace,” then count me in as one of the “grace-heretics!” It is a label that was applied to both Paul and Jesus by the Pharisees of their day, so I am more than happy to wear it in ours. As the late scholar D. Martin Lloyd-Jones famously pointed out (andthis is my paraphrase), "If people do not sometimes misunderstand and falsely accuse you of being soft-on-sin or against God’s law, you are not preaching the real gospel!"


Objection #2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Soft on Sin


This is a common one, of course. The idea here is that because of our high esteem of the finished work of Christ and our insistence upon keeping our eyes fixated on Jesus as Author and Finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:2), we are either afraid to preach against sin or do not take sin seriously enough.

Far from being “soft on sin” – we who preach grace are extremely big on Jesus. Any gospel worthy of the hyper-grace label is a gospel which points all fingers toward Jesus rather than judgmentally pointing them at those He came to save.

There are definitely many contexts in which it is appropriate to talk about sin, warn about sin and preach against sin. I do this routinely in my preaching ministry, as do my friends who are also labeled as hyper-grace preachers. Sin is bad. It is ugly. It brings death to everything it touches. It grieves God. It makes us miserable. It comes with a variety of consequences.

No legitimate grace-preacher that I am aware of minimizes the reality that sin is evil, wrong, bad, unproductive and unfitting for a new creation in Christ. What we DO focus on, however, is the Answer to sin, which is Jesus – and the fact that His grace alone is precisely what delivers us from its penalty (death), its power (enslavement) and eventually even its very presence (when we live in the fullness of His heavenly kingdom one day).

I talk about sin all the time, but not as a means of manipulating, judging or condemning people. I talk about sin so as to help people understand both their daily and eternal need for Jesus as Savior and Lord. We hyper-grace preachers are simply standing with Paul on the promise that it is the grace of God which “teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age…” (Titus 2:11-13).

Paul taught that the power of sin is the law (1 Cor. 15:56). If a person wants to ensure that they will remain in slavery to life-dominating sin and addiction, one simple way to do that is to live under a law-based mentality. A grace-saturated life, however, frees us from the grip of sin’s mastery over us. Far from being soft on sin, we take sin very seriously. So seriously that we are pointing people unapologetically to the only Source of rescue from it! That Source is not trying harder to be a good person, culturally-espoused self-help tactics or pop-psychology.

That Source is Jesus Christ and the grace He alone offers.


Objection #3: Hyper-Grace Preachers Don’t Believe in Repentance


Not only do webelieve in repentance, but we seek to understand and teach it thoroughly and accurately. In the New Testament, “to repent” is a translation of the Greek verb “metanoeo” meaning “to change one’s mind or perspective.” Obviously, when we receive Christ, we have repented in the genuine sense of the term – changing our minds about our need of a Savior and receiving Christ.

Before Christ, we lived as self-sufficiently as possible, thinking that God would probably grade on a curve and accept us at least partly on the basis of our own best efforts and self-generated goodness. When we came to understand our spiritual bankruptcy and our desperate need for Christ’s forgiveness and new life, we repented (had a change of perspective) and received Christ by trusting in Him alone to rescue us.

Beyond this initial experience of “getting saved” (as we often call it), repentance is a daily lifestyle in which an ongoing “renewal of the mind” process is taking place within us. As we grow in faith and in our understanding of God through His Word and our union with His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17), we begin to replace old thinking with new thinking and false thinking with true thinking. This renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:1-3) is an integral part of the transformative process of the Spirit’s work in our lives. This is the essence of a lifestyle of repentance – taking false thoughts captive, making them obedient to (in conformity with) Christ (2 Cor. 10:5).

Paul affirmed in no uncertain terms that God’s kindness (His expressed grace toward us) is what leads to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Far from being anti-repentance, hyper-grace theology affirms repentance and the ongoing renewal of the mind as an integral part of what it means to follow Jesus under His New Covenant.


Objection #4: Hyper-Grace Preachers Are Against Confession of Sin


This is one of the most common misrepresentations of hyper-grace theology. The Biblical term “to confess” simply means “to speak the same thing as” or “to agree with.” We teach that confession is important because we should yield our minds to agreement with God about everything He reveals – including, but not limited to, sin.

What we often also teach (and this is where the rub is with some people) is that confession is not about triggering any transaction between us and God that would issue forth more forgiveness, as though God were dispensing forgiveness in various doses based upon our confessions. Forgiveness of sin is something that was provided objectively ONE time by ONE act of grace through ONE Savior who shed His blood on the cross for us 2000 years ago. As the book of Hebrews repeatedly emphasizes, He is the “once for all” sacrifice for sin.

Confession of sin then, is about humility and walking in agreement with God – not about getting more forgiveness from Him. Some will suggest that God’s forgiveness is dispensed using a “two-tiered” approach. On one level, they say, God has forgiven our sins judicially and objectively through the cross. On the second tier, however, we need to confess our sins in order to receive “relational” or“experiential” forgiveness in order to maintain close fellowship with God.

This two-tiered approach is nowhere taught in the New Testament, and has only been popularized because of two basic levels of rationale. The first is based upon a misinterpretation of two passages in the New Testament, both of which have been clearly explained in books and sermons by a host of solid gospel teachers. These two passages are Matthew 6:12 (where Jesus appears to be commanding His followers to ask for God’s forgiveness) and 1 John 1:9 (which seems to link forgiveness to confession of sin).

In my book “The Gospel Uncut: Learning to Rest in the Grace of God” I deal with these passages quite clearly, as do other authors such as Bob George, Andrew Farley, Ralph Harris, Paul Ellis, Cathy Hildebrand and Andrew Nelson. I encourage you to investigate these writings for yourself in order to understand the context in which these passages were intended to be understood.

The bottom-line is this. We hyper-grace preachers DO value confession of sin. We also practice confession of sin in our own lives. However, we understand confession to be about agreeing with God concerning the foolishness of our sin rather than begging for forgiveness based upon a humanly-invented two-tiered approach to somehow "maintaining close fellowship" with Him.

Our fellowship with God was purchased unconditionally and irreversibly by Jesus at the cross. Once we receive that fellowship by simple faith in Christ, it is our eternal possession regardless of our recent performance or track-record. As I’ve written in my book, The Gospel Uncut:

"The way I now approach confession is to simply agree with God about the foolishness of my sin. I admit to Him that my sin hurts me as well as others and that it fails to bring glory to His Name. Often I am sorrowful over the foolishness of my actions. The Apostle Paul wrote that there is a “godly sorrow that brings repentance” (2 Cor. 10:7). When I know I have sinned, I humbly admit that my sinful behavior is out of step with my new nature and identity in Him, and I ask Him to help me rest in His completed work. Now here comes the best part! After agreeing with God about my sin, I begin thanking Him for the fact that this sinful act was already forgiven at the cross. Understanding these realities has literally transformed my practice of confession, changing the experience from a guilt-ridden begging session into a dynamic, worshipful encounter in which my conscious mind (and behavior) is realigned with the grace and truth of Jesus.

So yes! By all means confess your sin to God! Agree with Him about sin and everything else He has revealed. But don’t think of confession as a means of obtaining something that Jesus Christ died “once for all” to secure for you. Remember that confession is about humility and the ongoing renewal of the mind process – and never about getting something from God that is already yours in abundance through the finished work of Christ. If you are a believer in Christ, you are NEVER out of fellowship with God. Fellowship is an identity issue, meaning that you now share "all things in common" with God as a joint-heir with Christ (Rom. 8:17)! This never has been and never will be based upon your behavioral performance and is not something that you must confess sin in order to have reinstated! Because of Christ, you are always clean and God is always close!


Objection #5: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against God’s Law


Some take this claim so far as to suggest that we even want to throw out or ignore the Old Testament. Wow! What wild imaginations these accusers have! The truth is that we are by no means antinomian (against the law of God), nor do we disbelieve or avoid teaching the Old Testament. Most of us actually esteem the power and purpose of God’s law so highly that we understand grace to be the only way of escape from its impossibly stringent demands.

Paul shared in Romans 3 and elsewhere that God’s purposes for the law were two-fold: 1) to stop our self-righteous excuses, minimizations and justifications of our sin and 2) to reveal our desperate need of a Savior by grace through faith. The entire thrust of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount was to bury His very self-righteous audience under the weight of one inescapable reality: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the world’s most stringent law-keepers (the Pharisees and teachers of the law) you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt.5:20).

That Jesus came to “fulfill” the Law (Matt. 5:17) means that He came to keep its demands perfectly because He knew that we couldn’t and wouldn’t. He fulfilled the stringent demands of the Law on our behalf as our Substitute so that His record of perfection could be credited to our spiritual account when we received Him by grace through faith. He did what you and I couldn’t and wouldn’t, and the Sermon on the Mount is a damning indictment of anyone who thinks they can measure up to God’s standards on their own effort.

And have you heard of this “cheap grace” idea? Sometimes the term is ripped off and redefined from Bonhoeffer’s vocabulary to insinuate that the hyper-grace movement has cheapened the grace of God by making it “too easy” for people to attain. After all, we live in a world where there’s no such thingas a free lunch, right? We certainly don't believe or teach that grace is cheap. It cost Jesus His life! But we DO agree with the New Testament that His grace is FREE to those who receive it freely by faith.

The truth of the matter is that hyper-grace teachers are not guilty of promoting cheap grace at all. Rather, our critics are often guilty of promoting cheap Law! Far from being anti-law, WE are the ones who esteem God's Law so highly as to conclude that there is no escape from its condemnation apart from faith in Christ alone! The Law is an all-or-nothing proposition. To stumble in just one aspect of keeping it is the equivalent of breaking all of it (James 2:10). The Law is a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-11). The Law is not the bad guy, however. It simply points out who the bad guys are (the world, the flesh and the devil)! The Law is holy and pure and designed to show us what sin is (Rom.7:7).

But living under Law cannot save, change or transform a single heart – only grace can! And this is why we are so adamant about never mixing a law-based mentality with a grace-based mentality toward spiritual life or growth under God’s New Covenant. The New Testament repeatedly affirms that our salvation and sanctification are either completely by law or completely by grace, but cannot be a result of mixing the two.


Conclusion:


With all of that said, the idea of trying to somehow “balance grace” with anything is ludicrous according to both Scripture and plain reason. Grace, by definition, is radically IMBALANCED in our favor! If it were not, it would cease to be grace on that very basis! The term “hyper-grace” is far from insulting! It is in fact the ONLY kind of grace taught, supportedand promoted in the Bible.

God understands that His grace is open to the possibility of abuse by those who might misunderstand it. He understands that people may take His grace for granted or even at times misrepresent it as a license to sin. Paul addressed those concerns very clearly, as did Jesus and the other New Testament writers.

However, the fact that grace is open to misinterpretation and the possibility of abuse does not give us license to water it down, explain it away or cheapen its glory by adding a single measure of law into it as an attempt to stay "balanced." There is nothing balanced whatsoever about the grace of God! We rejoice in that! We celebrate that! We proclaim that without apology!

May God reveal His hyper-grace more clearly to you in the days ahead! Feel free to chime in with your thoughts below.
(For a more exhaustive treatment of this critical subject, check out the book "The Hyper-Grace Gospel" by my friend Paul Ellis )


http://surrenderedimage.com/Blog/why-i-am-hyper-grace-answering-five-common-objections-32708

Post #399
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-20.html#post2633073


 
May 28, 2016
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Amen..I agree with most of what you are saying. I don't quite agree with this statement below or maybe I am interpreting it differently then what you meant it to be?

"One does not always automatically get baptized into the body by hearing the gospel preached like the instance with them that heard Peter preach (Acts 10:44).

Those at Cornelius' house believed when they heard the gospel and they received the Holy Sprit before they did anything about any sin. Peter did not say one word about repentance in that message but they did repent ( changed their mind ) to believe what Jesus has done for them. Namely all their sins were forgiven through His name.

One does have to believe in Jesus in order to be baptized into the body of Christ if that is what you mean. The "fruits" of repentance after coming to Christ will reflect in an exchanged life and as we grow in Him - our outward behavior will reflect our new nature in Christ - in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness
.

The grace of God is conditional...as one must believe...

There is a process...first "listen to the message of truth"...then "believe" ..then we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit in our inner man as the Lord becomes one with our spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Here is Peter telling the Jewish council what happened at Cornelius' house with those gentiles.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Amen.

About being automatically baptized into the body of Christ is that not everyone shows the right belief in Christ in their hearts at the moment of hearing the gospel even tho they agree that they need to be saved. People need to show forth fruits meet for repentance from the heart like the pharisees were told by John the baptist. People who answer the gospel with a good conscience from the heart receives Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and people who don't need to change their attitude towards a good conscience which is reflected in their lives by becoming obedient to the Father.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen.

About being automatically baptized into the body of Christ is that not everyone shows the right belief in Christ in their hearts at the moment of hearing the gospel even tho they agree that they need to be saved. People need to show forth fruits meet for repentance from the heart like the pharisees were told by John the baptist. People who answer the gospel with a good conscience from the heart receives Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and people who don't need to change their attitude towards a good conscience which is reflected in their lives by becoming obedient to the Father.
I agree...and sometimes what that "fruit" looks like can be different in some believers. I have seen some people instantly delivered from alcohol and others struggle with it all their lives. Both are in Christ.

The problem is that the "fruit-inspectors" that have been instantly delivered or others that have no problem with alcohol can look down on those Christians that are struggling with it and try to judge them as not being in Christ. I think only God can make that call.

I maintain that if we keep preaching and teaching the grace of Christ they will become free as the Holy Spirit transforms them as 2 Cor. 3:17-18 talks about.
 
Jul 23, 2015
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:smoke: perhaps this short information could help us learn
what the op wants us to discuss ... .
:read:
Christianity
Early church
Christian eschatology
Eschatology views
Contrasting beliefs[show]
The Millennium[show]
Biblical texts[show]
Key terms[show]
Christianity portal
v t e
During the first centuries after Christ, various forms of chiliasm (millennialism) were to be found in the Church, both East and West.[1] It was a decidedly majority view at that time, as admitted by Eusebius, himself an opponent of the doctrine [The History of the Church, Book 3:39]. Nevertheless, strong opposition later developed from some quarters, most notably from Augustine of Hippo. The Church never took a formal position on the issue at any of the ecumenical councils, and thus both pro and con positions remained consistent with orthodoxy. It is sometimes mistakenly claimed that Millennialism was repudiated as a heresy in A.D. 381 at the First Council of Constantinople with its addition of the phrase "whose kingdom shall have no end" to the Nicene Creed, in order to rule out the idea of a Kingdom of God which would last for only 1000 literal years. However, a reading of the canons of the council reveals no mention of millennialism, much less any repudiation, and the doctrine is itself consistent with there being no end to Christ's kingdom since millennialism, while focusing on a particular 1000-year period, does not contemplate a terminus ad quem to the kingdom. Rather, the doctrine holds that after 1000 years of Christ's reign there will be an unsuccessful rebellion on the part of Satan and his allies, a rebellion which will be decisively defeated. Since an unsuccessful revolt does not put an end to any kingdom, the specious reasoning employed by the above noted opponents of millennialism is considered apparent. The addition to the Nicene Creed was, rather, intended to refute the perceived Sabellianism of Marcellus of Ancyra and others, a doctrine which does in fact include an end to Christ's reign and which is explicitly singled out for condemnation by the council [Canon #1].[2][3] The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that the 2nd century proponents of various Gnostic beliefs (themselves considered heresies) also rejected millenarianism,.[4]

Millennialism was taught by various earlier writers such as Tertullian, Commodian, Lactantius, Methodius, and Apollinaris of Laodicea in a form now called premillennialism.[5] According to religious scholar Rev. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee,[6] "Justin's 'Occasional Chiliasm' sui generis which was strongly anti-pretribulationistic was followed possibly by Pothinus in A.D. 175 and more probably (around 185) by Irenaeus". Justin Martyr, discussing his own premillennial beliefs in his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter 110, observed that they were not necessary to Christians:

I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."[7]

Melito of Sardis is frequently listed as a second century proponent of premillennialism.[8] The support usually given for the supposition is that Jerome [Comm. on Ezek. 36 ] and Gennadius [De Dogm. Eccl., Ch. 52] both affirm that he was a decided millenarian.”[9]

In the early third century, Hippolytus of Rome wrote:

And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day "on which God rested from all His works." For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they "shall reign with Christ," when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years." Since, then, in six days God made all things, it follows that 6, 000 years must be fulfilled. (Hippolytus. On the HexaËmeron, Or Six Days' Work. From Fragments from Commentaries on Various Books of Scripture).

Around 220, there were some similar influences on Tertullian, although only with very important and extremely optimistic (if not perhaps even postmillennial) modifications and implications. On the other hand, 'Christian Chiliastic' ideas were indeed advocated in 240 by Commodian; in 250 by the Egyptian Bishop Nepos in his Refutation of Allegorists; in 260 by the almost unknown Coracion; and in 310 by Lactantius. Into the late fourth century, Bishop Ambrose of Milan had millennial leanings (Ambrose of Milan. Book II. On the Belief in the Resurrection, verse 108).

In a letter to Queen Gerberga of France around 950, Adso of Montier-en-Der established the idea of a "last World Emperor" who would conquer non-Christians before the arrival of the Antichrist.
 
May 28, 2016
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I agree...and sometimes what that "fruit" looks like can be different in some believers. I have seen some people instantly delivered from alcohol and others struggle with it all their lives. Both are in Christ.

The problem is that the "fruit-inspectors" that have been instantly delivered or others that have no problem with alcohol can look down on those Christians that are struggling with it and try to judge them as not being in Christ. I think only God can make that call.

I maintain that if we keep preaching and teaching the grace of Christ they will become free as the Holy Spirit transforms them as 2 Cor. 3:17-18 talks about.
Yes. Once you are baptized into Christ you still have Christ in you even if you still struggle with sin. Now I do not believe enjoying alcohol is a sin (Deut 14:26) unless you cause a brother to stumble in sin by not considering the weakness of he's temptation (1 Corin 8:12), but abusing yourself with it by becoming a drunkard is clearly a sin (1 Corin 6:10).

We should help such persons with exhortation showing love, also convincing them to come out of their abuse and offer them prayer, healing and deliverance.