Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

[InSpiritInTruth]

Has "Hyper-Grace Doctrine" been defined in this thread? Just curious because your post was the first I read and there are 17 pages already...

Here are a few links explaining the hidden dangers of this cult following...

Would You Recognize the Deception of Hyper-Grace? — Charisma News

Joseph Prince: The Dangerous Error of Hyper-Grace

Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

The Salvation Equation: False-Grace | Hyper-Grace | Distorted-Grace | “Many in the church will be shocked to find themselves in Hell one day.” - John Burton | Conference Speaker | Author

False Grace Doctrine (Hyper-Grace)

 

[B1Davanda]

I agree...and sometimes what that "fruit" looks like can be different in some believers. I have seen some people instantly delivered from alcohol and others struggle with it all their lives. Both are in Christ.

The problem is that the "fruit-inspectors" that have been instantly delivered or others that have no problem with alcohol can look down on those Christians that are struggling with it and try to judge them as not being in Christ. I think only God can make that call.

I maintain that if we keep preaching and teaching the grace of Christ they will become free as the Holy Spirit transforms them as 2 Cor. 3:17-18 talks about.

Very well said, brother! And the cure for the alcoholic and the legalist alike can often be the same...

Receive salvation as a gift of God's grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and begin thanking Him and worshipping Him for what He has done and promises to do.

The heart that is grateful for salvation being a done deal doesn't have alot of time for inspecting others fruit. It takes alot of time cultivating our own....

And it's hard to swallow alcohol when you're singing God's praise, plus, the hands lifted in praise to Jesus will probably spill the drinks anyhow.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here are a few links explaining the hidden dangers of this cult following...

Would You Recognize the Deception of Hyper-Grace? — Charisma News

Joseph Prince: The Dangerous Error of Hyper-Grace

Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

The Salvation Equation: False-Grace | Hyper-Grace | Distorted-Grace | “Many in the church will be shocked to find themselves in Hell one day.” - John Burton | Conference Speaker | Author

False Grace Doctrine (Hyper-Grace)

Yep..that's right..there are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic and a "cult".

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jack Hayford,..etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics". "If people don't believe the way that they do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."

It's the nature of the beast.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is in a cult and is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree...and sometimes what that "fruit" looks like can be different in some believers. I have seen some people instantly delivered from alcohol and others struggle with it all their lives. Both are in Christ.

The problem is that the "fruit-inspectors" that have been instantly delivered or others that have no problem with alcohol can look down on those Christians that are struggling with it and try to judge them as not being in Christ. I think only God can make that call.

We are called to be fruit inspectors by the chief fruit inspector himself - Jesus Christ. That's how we know who is following the truth and who isn't.

You will recognize them by their fruits: they do not gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, [do they]? In the [same] way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is not able to produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree to produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As a result, you will recognize them by their fruits. Matthew 7:16-20

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

 

[Grace777x70]

We are called to be fruit inspectors by the chief fruit inspector himself - Jesus Christ. That's how we know who is following the truth and who isn't.

You will recognize them by their fruits: they do not gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, [do they]? In the [same] way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is not able to produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree to produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As a result, you will recognize them by their fruits. Matthew 7:16-20

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

Angela53510 answered this to you when you did this earlier. Here is her response to you.

Once again, you have pulled a scripture out of context, and ascribed who Jesus was talking about to the wrong group of people.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits." Matt 7:15-20

Notice that Jesus is specifically pointing out that it is false prophets, or unbelievers who are thrown into the fire! When Jesus says "you will recognize them by their fruits." He is not referring to the disciples being "fruit checkers." In fact he is saying that they are diseased trees, which bear bad fruit, and those are false prophets - like the Pharisees who looked at the outward keeping of the law, instead of the looking to the heart and producing the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

In fact, Matthew 7 is the finish of the Sermon on the Mount, started in Matthew 5 and 6. You need to read and understand 3 chapters, to say nothing of understanding the background of the book in order to fully understand what Jesus was saying about God fruit and bad fruit.

And the verses above are preceded by this:

"Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5

Now those are some sharp words from the Master we all need to remember!

But getting back to good fruit and bad fruit, this was a metaphor or parable Jesus often used. He used it because he lived in a country where much fruit was grown, and people were generally familiar with the procedures and processes of growing fruit trees, olive trees and of course, vines! I have been gardening for over 40 years, but only rarely in places where it was warm enough to grow fruit trees. I could never bear to prune trees and the crop was not good. I am now living in a vineyard and fruit tree growing country.

Since moving, I have observed the vines and trees being radically cut back. The vines look like dead stumps in fall. I was worried the first year there would be no crop at all, but sure enough, the trees and vines pushed out new leaves then flowers that turned into very good fruit!

John 15 is particularly instructive in its use of the vine and fruit metaphor! Jesus prunes us! Jesus throws into the fire anyone who dies not abide or remain in him. But what does that mean?

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.15 No longer do I call you servants,for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another." John 15:1-17

So does this mean we lose our salvation if we do not abide in Christ, as some would interpret the above passage? If you stop at verse 5-6, it would seem like that is the intent and purpose of this passage. But in fact, if we read verse 5 and 6 correctly, we will realize that it is not about us throwing ourselves (the branches) into the fire, (because of sin?) In fact as branches, we cannot throw ourselves into the fire. The vintner has to gather the withered branches and throw them in the fire. And neither can we harvest ourselves, to bear much fruit. Branches cannot harvest themselves. That is for the farmer (the Father) and his workers to do. In other words, God is sovereign in this metaphor and we bear much fruit by abiding or as the more modern and perhaps a closer translation - we remain in Christ. And we remain in Christ and bear much fruit, beause the Father has chosen us!

And so we hit verse 16!!

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." John 15:16

So first, Jesus is talking to his disciples. Eleven disciples were wheat and one was a tare. He is reminding the wheat that they need to remain in him. How does this "abiding" happen? By obeying his command to love one another! Jesus' message is always one of love.

Second, Jesus told us that he chose us, we did not chose him! And in choosing us, he has high expectations that we will remain in him, and we will love one another, and we will bear much good fruit! Even more than an expectation, is the anticipation of what those he had chosen will do for Jesus and the Kingdom of God!

Finally, Jesus is quite clear in an earlier chapter as to how ALL PEOPLE will know and recognize Jesus disciples. And that is that they will "have love for one another." This is the message of the kingdom, and as we bear fruit, the fruit is from the Spirit and the most important one is love!

"By this all men will know you are my disciples that you have love for one another." John 13:35

Post #312

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-spirits-doctrines-devils-16.html#post2640964

 

[CS1]

We are called to be fruit inspectors by the chief fruit inspector himself - Jesus Christ. That's how we know who is following the truth and who isn't.

You will recognize them by their fruits: they do not gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, [do they]? In the [same] way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is not able to produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree to produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As a result, you will recognize them by their fruits. Matthew 7:16-20

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

please forgive me the fruit inspector was very funny to me. I think maybe if we looked at our own fruit first or the lack thereof it would be better seen by the lost . We are not to look for the fruit in another we are to KNOW the fruit in another meaning IT should be self - evident to you and me .

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yep..that's right..there are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic and a "cult".

There is also a lot of self proclaimed ministers of God who have not the anointing of the Holy Spirit, like Joseph Prince. Just because someone claims to be of God does not make it so, that is why, we who are truly of God's Spirit are told to try the spirits and see if their words and teachings line up with God's. Mr. Prince has failed this test, therefore we sheep who are truly of the good Shepherd will not listen to his voice, because he speaks as a Dragon.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Peter 2:1-3 (NASB)

[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2[/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

please forgive me the fruit inspector was very funny to me. I think maybe if we looked at our own fruit first or the lack thereof it would be better seen by the lost . We are not to look for the fruit in another we are to KNOW the fruit in another meaning IT should be self - evident to you and me .

Well this is a good point that I didn't cover in my comment. Inspecting others' fruit for the sake of judging (condemning) them is a big no-no (Judge not, lest ye be judged). This is done by those who don't judge their own fruit, and seek to justify themselves by condemning others.

However, inspecting others' fruit for the sake of judging (discerning) what they really believe (as demonstrated by what they do and say) is a big yes-yes (by their fruits ye shall know them). This is done by those who do examine their own hearts and find nothing against them, and then bear witness to the truth.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: this is one of our favorite context in the holy scriptures
hope it could help everyone from finding the truth :8)
please
:read:
Awit: 1. 1. Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 4. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

:happy: as it is written ... .

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ladylynn]

More fluff ignoring all the warnings. What happens when a wife goes and plays the Harlot with many lovers? Is that a faithful wife, or an unfaithful wife? Of course your doctrine does not allow for such a thing because it is all fluff and fantasy ignoring all the warnings given in scripture about those who would play the Harlot by returning to the ways of world, which is the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of preserving their own lives in this wicked world.

We know by the words of God how God feels about an unfaithful wife->>>>>

Isaiah 50:1Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

A reoccurring theme throughout your posts InSpiritInTruth is gloom and doom. As seeing life through the lens of your life is simply not good nor will it ever be. The things to come are shadowed by doom and the things that are have been cursed by doom and dread. If a relationship is to be entered into., it is first looked at as one that could and probably will fail so you foresee a must to brace up for the worst. Expect the very worse and do not ever have expectations of good but instead have expectations of evil.

No never should a believer look at his or her life that way. Trusting in Jesus and His love is never fluff as you put it. It is having faith as the Bible instructs us too. It is having faith in the love and consistency of Christ in and for us.

When Christians decide not to live that way it goes against a religious mindset that sees life as a curse and not a blessing. My outlook on life is not like yours because in Christ I have every reason to expect good and not evil. Love and not doubt and fear and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Our 'faith' is very different ISIT.

 

[notmyown]

Trusting in Jesus and His love is never fluff as you put it. It is having faith as the Bible instructs us too. It is having faith in the love and consistency of Christ in and for us.

Redemption!

i seem to be quoting this today, but Richard Sibbes was a Puritan writer known as 'the heavenly doctor'. he wrote a stunning sermon called "The Bruised Reed". and this is a quote from another sermon:

"There is more mercy in Christ than sin in us. " {the redeemed}

may we rejoice in our redemption and never bruise a tender reed.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

A reoccurring theme throughout your posts InSpiritInTruth is gloom and doom. As seeing life through the lens of your life is simply not good nor will it ever be. The things to come are shadowed by doom and the things that are have been cursed by doom and dread. If a relationship is to be entered into., it is first looked at as one that could and probably will fail so you foresee a must to brace up for the worst. Expect the very worse and do not ever have expectations of good but instead have expectations of evil.

No never should a believer look at his or her life that way. Trusting in Jesus and His love is never fluff as you put it. It is having faith as the Bible instructs us too. It is having faith in the love and consistency of Christ in and for us.

When Christians decide not to live that way it goes against a religious mindset that sees life as a curse and not a blessing. My outlook on life is not like yours because in Christ I have every reason to expect good and not evil. Love and not doubt and fear and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Our 'faith' is very different ISIT.

Our faith is different because I believe in both the blessing promises and the curses mentioned many times in scripture. Some peoples lack of faith in the words of God is exposed when they reject all the warnings given, and even deny the falling away from the faith prophesied could ever even happen to begin with. Some people just choose to bury their heads in the sand about the reality of a turning away from the faith back unto a life of sin, which will lead them to destruction.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 "Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;[SUP]27 [/SUP]A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known."


Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A reoccurring theme throughout your posts InSpiritInTruth is gloom and doom. As seeing life through the lens of your life is simply not good nor will it ever be. The things to come are shadowed by doom and the things that are have been cursed by doom and dread. If a relationship is to be entered into., it is first looked at as one that could and probably will fail so you foresee a must to brace up for the worst. Expect the very worse and do not ever have expectations of good but instead have expectations of evil.

No never should a believer look at his or her life that way. Trusting in Jesus and His love is never fluff as you put it. It is having faith as the Bible instructs us too. It is having faith in the love and consistency of Christ in and for us.

When Christians decide not to live that way it goes against a religious mindset that sees life as a curse and not a blessing. My outlook on life is not like yours because in Christ I have every reason to expect good and not evil. Love and not doubt and fear and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Our 'faith' is very different ISIT.

I find his posts to be very edifying. I don't see doom and gloom in them. I suppose that if my conscience was bothering me because I was living in sin or following false doctrine, and believed that I was without sin and following the truth, I probably would view his comments negatively. But since I strive to live with a clean conscience and trust that if GOD has something against me, he will let me know so that I can repent and keep going, I have no problem with his posts and my spirit bears witness that his words are truth.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I find his posts to be very edifying. I don't see doom and gloom in them. I suppose that if my conscience was bothering me because I was living in sin or following false doctrine, and believed that I was without sin and following the truth, I probably would view his comments negatively. But since I strive to live with a clean conscience and trust that if GOD has something against me, he will let me know so that I can repent and keep going, I have no problem with his posts and my spirit bears witness that his words are truth.

I feel the same exact way, which is why I prefer reading his posts because I dont sense anything by the Spirit of God in those things as depressing or full of gloom or against those of us in Jesus Christ. I pick up on no condemnation in Christ in these things, so why anyone would be picking up that in themselves would be a question they might need to pray about.

 

[Grace777x70]

color is a powerful tool to convey meaning that works at conscious & subconscious levels, drawing on deep emotional layers within the human psyche in often subliminal ways to educe a response in people even below our level of awareness. post haz art degree; haz been taught well about many such things.

i am sure most of us have now or have had at some point, a 'red-letter' edition of the Bible? with all of Christ's words in red?
and i am sure that almost every one of us who have or have had one of these, have skimmed through the gospels at one time or another, reading only what is in red?

and i am equally sure that when we look over the pages of the synoptic gospels, those things written in red jump out and are more important to us than any other words in the whole of scripture.

most of us are, conscious of it or not, conditioned in a very certain way to regard things of certain colors in a very certain way. they have a deep impact on us that is probably far below levels of which we are aware.


just a little experiment -- here are InSpiritInTruth's first 4 posts in this thread showing only the red words. nothing added, nothing removed except colors other than the one that we are programmed to focus our attention on.
just have a glance and see if it changes at all whether or not you think there is anything to Lynn's comment.

bear in mind that there is no reason to change any words color here apart from his own personal choice to add emphasis -- he's not keeping any sort of 'Christ's words in red' rule -- just adding his own emphasis to what he feels is important, whether it's scripture or just his own opinion, he's using color purely to make stand out what he wants to stand out.

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

depart
seducing spirits
devils
lies
sinners
seduction
but the way of the wicked
false
foolish
spirit
seduced
false
false
false
seduce
false
false
seduce
evil
seducers
deceiving
deceived
seducers
seduce
sin
seduce
false
liar
false
ongoing sin

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

depart
seducing spirits
devils
falling away
sin
lies
deception
spirit
lie
lie
spirit
in
false
sin
iniquity
man
desolate
naked
sin
wicked
spirit
spirits
wicked
wicked
wicked
falling away
pollutions
entangled
worse
to turn
again
him
power
spirit
deception
lies
horn
tail
red
lie
in
world
spirit
lie

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

evil spirit
seducing spirits
in
wicked
Wicked
him
working
lying
deceivableness
unrighteousness in
strong delusion
lie
unrighteousness
firstborn
red
sin
desolate
destruction
desolate
hate
sin
desolate
wicked
deceitful
lying
hatred
adversaries
evil
hatred
wicked
Satan
desolate
wicked
fall away
destruction

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

turneth away
iniquity
trespass
trespassed
in
sin
sinned
die
turneth away
iniquity
dieth in
iniquity
die
transgression
sinneth
turneth
iniquity
die
foolish
fell
the fall
blindblind
fall
blindblind
fall
fall
pride
fall
condemnation
devil
fall
reproach
snare
devil
fall
snare
lusts
destruction
perdition
fall
unbelief
fall away
draw back
turned back
looking back
looked back
fall away
if
fall
led away
error
fall
fallen


There is a common theme here; you can guess what kind of word-studies he's been doing.

for reasons briefly discussed above, purely because of design choices, i have a hard time reading your posts without becoming nauseous. this thread is by no means an isolated example of what i'm trying to point out.

so if you guys ever wonder why i very rarely respond to InSpiritInTruth, or interact with him at all,
well -- there you have it; as plain as i can make it right now.

This could be one of the reasons why some don't "identify" with these kinds of posts.....it's pretty well self-evident why....

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This could be one of the reasons why some don't "identify" with these kinds of posts.....it's pretty well self-evident why....

Here is one of those posts I made in which those depressing words you don't want to "identify" with were drawn from, notice the words at the top in green are mine, the rest is scripture.....

More scriptures about falling away, and turning back.........

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.”


Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Acts 7:38-39 “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:[SUP]39 [/SUP]To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

The words of God, which are Truth, are soooooo depressing! LOL

 

[Angela53510]

This thread is based on the Bible and scripture concerning how the Holy Spirit foretold of how some in the last days would be led astray by false doctrines and fall away from the faith. This falling away prophecy should be of great concern for many Christians, but many have already been deceived and have believed the lies that it is not possible for a believer to fall away from the faith and lose salvation.

I have used multitudes of scriptures to prove my points in my OP and in the following posts. But some have come on this thread just to try to mock me and the thread and call it a curse, unedifying, divisive, yada, yada, yada.

Perhaps why they hate the thread so much is because the Truth offends some whose conscience is not clean concerning these matters? Perhaps it is a curse to those who are cursed? No matter what you think of me, this is a Bible discussion forum, not your own personal opinion forum of what you think of me or my threads.

I find it odd, SpiritinTruth, that in post #312, I posted a good exegetical anaylsis of where a Scripture had been pulled out of context in this thread, and I discussed the implications of the verse, the passage, and in context of other verses that Jesus had talked about on the same topic.

It was relevant, because it was New Testament (Covenant), and I would have liked to hear your opposing views as to what I posts.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but I do expect Bibical answers as to why you think I am wrong. Whereas, you love to pull Old Testament verses out of context, or New Testament ones which support your "prophet of doom" proclamations.

So yes, I spent a lot of time, research and energy to examine some of the verses posted by "your" side! And yet not one person from "your" side replied. That was disappointing to me. I would like to hear a rebuttal based on your theology, and showing me how and in what way my interpretation of the clear message of Scripture was not correct.

My thread was totally based on the Bible and Scripture. Because it is the Bible Discussion Forum. I try very hard not to get into personal opinion threads, and attacks on those I don't agree with (although HeRose might be somewhat justified in refuting that - a mistake on my part, for sure! And for that I publicly apologize!)

Of course, if you have me on ignore, that would make it difficult for you to discuss my post. Although I think we have rarely interacted! And although I totally disagree with your hermeneutics and interpretation, I do read carefully what you have posted, as it is usually from the Bible.

My final comment would be that much more would be gained from our discussions if you were to take one verse in context of the passage, and show the BDF how it supports your theology. When you post 10 or 20 verses, without a single one being in a passage, and without the clarity of seeing who was saying it and to whom and what were the circumstances surrounding that passage, it becomes little more than a wall of text, and it is difficult to to discuss.

I don't have the time to go back and exegete 10-20 verses, and see exactly what each one of them is talking about. Personally, and from the training and experience I have had in Bible interpretation, there is no better way to twist Scripture than to research a topic, pull single verses and post them all. That results in a complete lack of understanding of what each verses is actually talking about.

Of course, I am speaking generically here, as there are many people, on all sides of these debates that do this, and it adds nothing to the discussion. Putting "judgement" or "die" or "condemnation" into Biblegateway.com, or Biblehub, OpenVerses. Etc, shows you can do an Internet search, but not actually understand the context and the purpose of the verse. Nor the theological implications of what Jesus, Paul or any Old Testament prophet was saying!

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Here is one of those posts I made in which those depressing words you don't want to "identify" with were drawn from, notice the words at the top in green are mine, the rest is scripture.....

The words of God, which are Truth, are soooooo depressing! LOL

No, these prophets are and apostles of our Lord are not trying to depress people, you are studying comparitively between the same,

Its not as if you come up with these words yourself, the Spirit of God spoke them by each of these and they are not evil or depressing or any such thing.

Maybe you can UNhilight it for those who feel condemned by Gods word when it is highlighted?

Ezekiel 18:24

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that hesinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.”


Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not,shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest hefall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareththorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Acts 7:38-39 “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:[SUP]39 [/SUP]To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their heartsturned back again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and lookingback, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it;and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Maybe that will help?