Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk
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and all corrupted by sin,
I doubt whether this is completely so. My flesh has to be continually 'mortified'. My soul/spirit is affected by 'the flesh' which means more than the body. You cannot have the spirit in charge without the soul. The soul is the mainspring for my actions. Paul did not mean that we are composed of three separate parts.
where does it say that in Scripture? That is simply your hypothesis.
which is the mind, the soul or the Spirit? LOL
true
That is precisely what you would need.
Jesus split us into four parts, body, soul, mind and strength, . so which are we?
James 1.13-16
Individual sins, yes, but not sin in general. For example not loving God with heart, soul, mind and strength (all of our being) is sin. But which of us can maintain such an attitude for long, if at all.
why should he, he had an empire to run
I don't think they say we are powerless
LOL 1 john 1 proves the opposite,
you inner man is the motivator of the body, how then can this be so
we need both body and mind renewed constantly, so what does that show? The whole is sinful,
Scripture? We are sinners saved by grace all our lives. Then God in His grace His final work on us (Phil 3).
The true shepherd says He will keep us to the end. Saved by His grace.
Rubbish, Jesus was talking of the Rabbis and the antagonistic Pharisees
.
Are you mad, or just talking like a madman? Where God is acting in grace it is not initially through human effort. We depend on His grace all the way through. Salvation is by grace alone, including enabling and restraining grace,.
..
The baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs at conversion (1 Cor 12.13). After Pentecost.
I doubt whether this is completely so. My flesh has to be continually 'mortified'. My soul/spirit is affected by 'the flesh' which means more than the body. You cannot have the spirit in charge without the soul. The soul is the mainspring for my actions. Paul did not mean that we are composed of three separate parts.
where does it say that in Scripture? That is simply your hypothesis.
which is the mind, the soul or the Spirit? LOL
true
That is precisely what you would need.
Jesus split us into four parts, body, soul, mind and strength, . so which are we?
James 1.13-16
Individual sins, yes, but not sin in general. For example not loving God with heart, soul, mind and strength (all of our being) is sin. But which of us can maintain such an attitude for long, if at all.
why should he, he had an empire to run
I don't think they say we are powerless
LOL 1 john 1 proves the opposite,
you inner man is the motivator of the body, how then can this be so
we need both body and mind renewed constantly, so what does that show? The whole is sinful,
Scripture? We are sinners saved by grace all our lives. Then God in His grace His final work on us (Phil 3).
The true shepherd says He will keep us to the end. Saved by His grace.
Rubbish, Jesus was talking of the Rabbis and the antagonistic Pharisees
.
Are you mad, or just talking like a madman? Where God is acting in grace it is not initially through human effort. We depend on His grace all the way through. Salvation is by grace alone, including enabling and restraining grace,.
..
The baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs at conversion (1 Cor 12.13). After Pentecost.
Scripture talks about the attribute of God being grace, but not God is grace.
God is love, so love describes who God is, but God is not grace.
So if you exalt an attribute up to actually being God is that just a distortion.
Grace by itself does not exist, it is a way of doing something, a description of the
style of an action.
What is obviously wrong is to ignore justice, truth, judgement, honesty, clarity.
It is wrong to call unrepentant sin forgiven and forgotten. But this is imputed
righteousness is attempting to do, rather than cleansing forgiveness that makes
the believer clean so they can walk righteously. The idea of faking righteousness
is a deep deception and meaningless. The unrepentant forgiven sinner will just
repeat their sin, compounding their judgement and destroying the life given them.
God is love, so love describes who God is, but God is not grace.
So if you exalt an attribute up to actually being God is that just a distortion.
Grace by itself does not exist, it is a way of doing something, a description of the
style of an action.
What is obviously wrong is to ignore justice, truth, judgement, honesty, clarity.
It is wrong to call unrepentant sin forgiven and forgotten. But this is imputed
righteousness is attempting to do, rather than cleansing forgiveness that makes
the believer clean so they can walk righteously. The idea of faking righteousness
is a deep deception and meaningless. The unrepentant forgiven sinner will just
repeat their sin, compounding their judgement and destroying the life given them.
A
Wow, aren't you a ray of sunshine and example of gentleness and patience?
You admit to attacking people who believe in grace only? True or false?
I have stated that is only through God's grace that we receive anything.
.
It is by God's grace we receive faith to be believe.
It is by God's grace that we have repentant hearts.
So to say "by grace alone" is a true statement and if you attack that, then you attack the gospel.
If your faith is not a gift crime God through His grace then where does it come from?
You say the Holy Spirit, which is also a gift from God.
Anyway, I will take my juvenille self to another thread and talk to people who display the fruits of the Spirit and wisdom from above.
You admit to attacking people who believe in grace only? True or false?
I have stated that is only through God's grace that we receive anything.
.
It is by God's grace we receive faith to be believe.
It is by God's grace that we have repentant hearts.
So to say "by grace alone" is a true statement and if you attack that, then you attack the gospel.
If your faith is not a gift crime God through His grace then where does it come from?
You say the Holy Spirit, which is also a gift from God.
Anyway, I will take my juvenille self to another thread and talk to people who display the fruits of the Spirit and wisdom from above.
A
Our Wesleyan Heritage | The United Methodist Church
Prevenient Grace
Wesley understood grace as God’s active presence in our lives. This presence is not dependent on human actions or human response. It is a gift — a gift that is always available, but that can be refused.
God’s grace stirs up within us a desire to know God and empowers us to respond to God’s invitation to be in relationship with God. God’s grace enables us to discern differences between good and evil and makes it possible for us to choose good….
God takes the initiative in relating to humanity. We do not have to beg and plead for God’s love and grace. God actively seeks us!1
Justifying Grace
Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: “In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). And in his letter to the Roman Christians, Paul wrote: “But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
These verses demonstrate the justifying grace of God. They point to reconciliation, pardon, and restoration. Through the work of God in Christ our sins are forgiven, and our relationship with God is restored. According to John Wesley, founder of the Methodist movement, the image of God — which has been distorted by sin — is renewed within us through Christ’s death.
Again, this dimension of God’s grace is a gift. God’s grace alone brings us into relationship with God. There are no hoops through which we have to jump in order to please God and to be loved by God. God has acted in Jesus Christ. We need only to respond in faith.1
Conversion
This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, it’s a new beginning. Following Jesus’ words to Nicodemus, “You must be born anew” (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration.
Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as “just” in God’s eyes through religious and moral practices. It’s a time when God’s “justifying grace” is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, we’re justified by God’s grace through faith.
Justification is also a time of repentance — turning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express God’s love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit “bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Romans 8:16).2
Sanctifying Grace
Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of God’s gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of God’s grace as sanctification, or holiness.1
Through God’s sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived. As we pray, study the Scriptures, fast, worship, and share in fellowship with other Christians, we deepen our knowledge of and love for God. As we respond with compassion to human need and work for justice in our communities, we strengthen our capacity to love neighbor. Our inner thoughts and motives, as well as our outer actions and behavior, are aligned with
Prevenient Grace
Wesley understood grace as God’s active presence in our lives. This presence is not dependent on human actions or human response. It is a gift — a gift that is always available, but that can be refused.
God’s grace stirs up within us a desire to know God and empowers us to respond to God’s invitation to be in relationship with God. God’s grace enables us to discern differences between good and evil and makes it possible for us to choose good….
God takes the initiative in relating to humanity. We do not have to beg and plead for God’s love and grace. God actively seeks us!1
Justifying Grace
Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: “In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). And in his letter to the Roman Christians, Paul wrote: “But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
These verses demonstrate the justifying grace of God. They point to reconciliation, pardon, and restoration. Through the work of God in Christ our sins are forgiven, and our relationship with God is restored. According to John Wesley, founder of the Methodist movement, the image of God — which has been distorted by sin — is renewed within us through Christ’s death.
Again, this dimension of God’s grace is a gift. God’s grace alone brings us into relationship with God. There are no hoops through which we have to jump in order to please God and to be loved by God. God has acted in Jesus Christ. We need only to respond in faith.1
Conversion
This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, it’s a new beginning. Following Jesus’ words to Nicodemus, “You must be born anew” (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration.
Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as “just” in God’s eyes through religious and moral practices. It’s a time when God’s “justifying grace” is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, we’re justified by God’s grace through faith.
Justification is also a time of repentance — turning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express God’s love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit “bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Romans 8:16).2
Sanctifying Grace
Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of God’s gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of God’s grace as sanctification, or holiness.1
Through God’s sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived. As we pray, study the Scriptures, fast, worship, and share in fellowship with other Christians, we deepen our knowledge of and love for God. As we respond with compassion to human need and work for justice in our communities, we strengthen our capacity to love neighbor. Our inner thoughts and motives, as well as our outer actions and behavior, are aligned with
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached which is that our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood and that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.
The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached which is that our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood and that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.
The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
It would seem you are also just reacting and not reading...it would also seem to be that while you talk a good spiritual game, you really have little knowledge...your comments indicate someone that has no understanding that they are a 3 part being...your replies prove this in spades.
You also continue to claim that your divine identity is still a sinner...the Bible plainly states otherwise..
The hurt in exposing error and promoting truth is watching the reactions of people exposed to the truth...
You also continue to claim that your divine identity is still a sinner...the Bible plainly states otherwise..
The hurt in exposing error and promoting truth is watching the reactions of people exposed to the truth...
Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
The gospel means "good news" - news is something that has already happened! Thank you Lord Jesus!
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
The gospel means "good news" - news is something that has already happened! Thank you Lord Jesus!
The only one making this a war is you....the only one not displaying the fruit is you...the only one crying and stomping off is you....the only one running after spreading blatant untruths about what I have stated is you....again, the hurt in exposing the truth is watching the reactions of those people who are exposed to it...
The Christian is a man who of necessity must be concerned about keeping God’s law. I mentioned in chapter one the fatal tendency to put up law and grace as antitheses in the wrong sense. We are not ‘under the law’ but we are still meant to keep it. . . .So the Christian is a man who is always concerned about living and keeping the law of God. Here [in the Sermon on the Mount] he is reminded how that is to be done.
Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981)
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.or...yd-jones-on-scandalous-grace-that-isnt-cheap/
The problem of just quoting one quote is it misses out the balancing
quotes which bring the truth into line.
Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981)
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.or...yd-jones-on-scandalous-grace-that-isnt-cheap/
The problem of just quoting one quote is it misses out the balancing
quotes which bring the truth into line.
The thought must have come to mind the other day like this:
"I think I'll join a Christian talk and fellowship site and reeeaaally SET THEM STRAIGHT! I'll even call myself TRUTHHURTS! And I should know, cause I'm hurting and I KNOW the TRUTH! I'm gonna MAKE sure they hurt TOO! Because they need to know the TRUTH HURTS!!! What truth? The truth in the Bible, and ONLY MY INTERPRETATION is TRUTH! Because it hurts!
Will I go and talk to other believers, who have been here in fellowship for YEARS, in a humble, respectful way? Maybe introduce myself and show love and compassion to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and build them up in the love and knowledge of Christ? NAAAHHH!
You know why? BECAUSE I HAVE THE TRUTH AND IT'S SUPPOSE TO HURT!!!"
Sorry Ariel. I couldn't resist. You may take me to the woodshed, but I couldn't stomach the bullying anymore.
"I think I'll join a Christian talk and fellowship site and reeeaaally SET THEM STRAIGHT! I'll even call myself TRUTHHURTS! And I should know, cause I'm hurting and I KNOW the TRUTH! I'm gonna MAKE sure they hurt TOO! Because they need to know the TRUTH HURTS!!! What truth? The truth in the Bible, and ONLY MY INTERPRETATION is TRUTH! Because it hurts!
Will I go and talk to other believers, who have been here in fellowship for YEARS, in a humble, respectful way? Maybe introduce myself and show love and compassion to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and build them up in the love and knowledge of Christ? NAAAHHH!
You know why? BECAUSE I HAVE THE TRUTH AND IT'S SUPPOSE TO HURT!!!"
Sorry Ariel. I couldn't resist. You may take me to the woodshed, but I couldn't stomach the bullying anymore.
The very nature of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross lends the carnal mind of man to think that the gospel that Paul preached produces licentiousness - because the religious mind of man is sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious.
Paul had to defend the accusation that he was preaching that people can sin all they want now because of grace at least 4x times. People do the same thing today when it comes to the gospel of the grace of God when it is preached like it was by Peter and Paul in Acts 10 and Acts 13.
Romans 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
The gospel is scandalous to the religious sin-conscious mind of man and especially to the works-righteousness mindset. Christ finished work on the cross is a stumbling block to all those of us that have a self-righteousness/holiness mindset that is dependent on what they do or don't do.
This is an anti-Christ belief system at it's core. Sin-consciousness and sin management is the fuel for the fire of religion.
Paul had to defend the accusation that he was preaching that people can sin all they want now because of grace at least 4x times. People do the same thing today when it comes to the gospel of the grace of God when it is preached like it was by Peter and Paul in Acts 10 and Acts 13.
Romans 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
The gospel is scandalous to the religious sin-conscious mind of man and especially to the works-righteousness mindset. Christ finished work on the cross is a stumbling block to all those of us that have a self-righteousness/holiness mindset that is dependent on what they do or don't do.
This is an anti-Christ belief system at it's core. Sin-consciousness and sin management is the fuel for the fire of religion.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ifyou were to take the sum total of all the authoritative articles everwritten by the most qualified of psychologists and psychiatrists onthe subject of mental hygiene if you were to combine them and refinethem and cleave out the excess verbiage if you were to have theseunadulterated bits of pure scientific knowledge concisely expressedby the most capable of living poets, you would have an awkward andincomplete summation of the Sermon on the Mount.” That sermon byJesus Christ is recorded in the Bible at Matthew chapters fivethrough seven. The wisdom contained in that sermon is still practical and effective today.[/FONT]
I was afraid I would come across like that. I was in no way offended by you, in any way. I was more using the whole conversation as a working example. I really did not feel you were attacking me at all, and I could have made that more clear. Also I understand your position, I too try to avoid the same kind of conversations/arguments/debates, what ever you call it, when they get that way.
I guess I was more trying to point out how bad this has got, it's to the point now that people are divided and are not even willing to talk to, explain, or listen to anyone else. I truly think that if we were all face to face to discuss these things, it would go so different. Anyway I truly appreciate your response, I understand where you're coming from, and you never at all offended my, I hope I wasn't offensive either. Regardless I hope we all can have a great night. I'll see y'all later.
I guess I was more trying to point out how bad this has got, it's to the point now that people are divided and are not even willing to talk to, explain, or listen to anyone else. I truly think that if we were all face to face to discuss these things, it would go so different. Anyway I truly appreciate your response, I understand where you're coming from, and you never at all offended my, I hope I wasn't offensive either. Regardless I hope we all can have a great night. I'll see y'all later.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. Sin distorts our view of God, others and of ourselves.
But sins of the flesh does not take away our eternal life in Christ. We will experience some form of death from living according to the flesh while living on this earth - whether it be from living a homosexual lifestyle or having malice and slandering others in the body of Christ.
Our spirit - the new creation in Christ which is the new inner man of the heart in - born of His incorruptible seed and this new man which cannot sin ( 1 John 3:9 & 1 John 5:18 ) is safe in Christ because we are in Him joined forever as one spirit and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we hear the message of Christ and believe the message of Christ. Eph. 1:13
The willful sin of unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is the only sin left that will stop people from receiving eternal life. There is no more sacrifice for sins other than the blood of Jesus and redemption is only found in Christ alone.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. Sin distorts our view of God, others and of ourselves.
But sins of the flesh does not take away our eternal life in Christ. We will experience some form of death from living according to the flesh while living on this earth - whether it be from living a homosexual lifestyle or having malice and slandering others in the body of Christ.
Our spirit - the new creation in Christ which is the new inner man of the heart in - born of His incorruptible seed and this new man which cannot sin ( 1 John 3:9 & 1 John 5:18 ) is safe in Christ because we are in Him joined forever as one spirit and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we hear the message of Christ and believe the message of Christ. Eph. 1:13
The willful sin of unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is the only sin left that will stop people from receiving eternal life. There is no more sacrifice for sins other than the blood of Jesus and redemption is only found in Christ alone.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
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Here is something funny/ironic. Most Christians will say you can't live a lifestyle of sin, right? Ask them how long a Christian can go without sinning, or if its possible to go a day, week, or month and they will say no. Many say not even a day. So, if they are sinning on the daily and they don't believe a Christian will live a lifestyle of sin, what does that make them? Condemned (according to their own belief).
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