Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

valiant · Apr 6, 2017

LOL dodging?

apart from a four year degree course at UK's leading Bible College and an Honours degree in theology from one of UK's top three universities. LOL

.

I don't accept that I am a three part being in your sense of the word. You have just selected a statement of Paul which was not intended to be taken literally as is shown by its non repetition. Jesus said I was a four part being. Elsewhere in Scripture a two part being. None of them illustrates what I really am, a being with mind, spirit, emotions and will all united in one.
.

lol sinner has many meanings. Paul said he was the chief of sinners. I certainly go along with Paul in that. I have no divine identity, I am not divine.

yes that is my problem in watching and listening to YOU. And I get the impression of a know-all

John146 · Apr 6, 2017

truthhurts said:

We are a 3 part being....Spirit, Soul[mind, will, emotions, passions, intellect] and Body/flesh

Your flesh will obey whoever is in charge...the soul or the spirit. If your spirit, which you have correctly, stated is made perfect at conversion is leading you, your Soul[mind, will, emotions, passions, intellect] must be transformed through renewing it to the Word of God, when the Spirit mind is in control and the soul[mind] is subjected to the Spirt, then the soul[mind] is now inline with the Spirit and when a temptation to look at a woman in lust is manifested, you refuse to be enticed to that temptation, SIN never was born, because lust was never conceived in the heart. [James 1.13-16]

SIN is not temptation!

You don't need a redeemed body to keep from sinning. All temptation starts in the carnal soul[mind] of a man. This will be hard for anyone to accept if they do not understand man is a 3 part being.

James 1.13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

This proves as Does Genesis 3 and 4 that SIN is and always has been a choice. David was not powerless over his lust over Bath-Sheba and the murder of Uriah. He chose to stay home instead of being on the Battle field where he should have been all along.

We have hirelings telling saints they are powerless and still sinners, because it fattens their wallets and keeps them in control.
John 9 & 10 prove this out in spades.

Where peeps fall into the ditch on this, is the doctrine of sinless perfection., that is a false teaching...This is because they think their whole Spirit, SOul adn Body are made perfect at conversion. This is not true, only, as you stated, your inner man is made perfect.

We gain spiritual maturity[perfection] through offering current body/flesh as a living and holy sacrifice , acceptable to God and not conformed but transformed by the renewing of our minds[soul]

Stating you are a sinner saved by grace after conversion should be reserved for Babes in Christ...but as they spiritually mature, they should come to understand they are a new creation....We do not see this develop a lot, because most hirelings have never progressed past sinner saved by grace thinking themselves. This is why Jesus said the blind leading the blind ends with both in a ditch...

This is not done by any human effort...this is where grace only theology stops and cannot understand manifold graces like enabling and restraining grace....This is where Pentecostal theology get bogged down in spiritualism about gifts and tongues...

The ability to do in your spirit what you cannot do in your flesh comes from Baptism in the Holy Spirit, after conversion. Jesus is the Baptizer into the Holy Spirit and the very first initial evidence of this Baptism is not tongues, it is AGAPE LOVE and then the other fruit of the Spirit.

If you noticed, I never said we sin because of our bodies. Sin is still the choice of our inner man. We have been justified by the faith of Christ and not by our own doing. Our soul is saved, our spirit will return to the Lord, but our body is yet to be redeemed. I appreciate your post.

PeterJens · Apr 6, 2017

John146 said:

So in this version of faith, perfect spirit, a body that gets redeemed. But how is the body
redeemed, does the spirit have to get a redeeming over draft from God to do repairs, go
to the body shop for a quick spray job, have major plastic surgery for the saggy bits?

I mean what is the problem, my body needs to know before body and spirit have different
destinations, I mean a body sent to hell and a spirit sent to heaven, who fells the pain
and who enjoys communion, what a dilemma ....

mailmandan · Apr 6, 2017

PeterJens said:

Hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9) in which we are made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ, yet there is ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness "perfecting holiness" becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

What truth was obeyed in regards to becoming purified?

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected to children of the devil.

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an additional requirement to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast!

There is initial sanctification in which we are made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus..

Yet there is also progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness, in regards to ongoing sanctification, in relation to our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

gotime · Apr 6, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hey Grace, Just a quick note on your last sentence. It could simply be that you are focusing on a specific point and thus pointing out lawlessness in regards to a pharisee in which I agree. Just making a point that lawlessness is not merely that in the greater biblical context. Now this may not be true for you but I bring up the point because I know for many this is the only definition of lawlessness. However lawlessness is also those who refuse to adhere to the law of God. In other words they refuse to allow Gods love to govern their lives. Anything that negates Gods love transforming the heart ends in lawlessness whether it be motivated by works based religion or a workless based religion. You probably already know this and was just focused on the pharisees Jesus was talking against, so just putting this here for those who narrow the application of lawlessness. blessings.

Grace777x70 · Apr 6, 2017

gotime said:

I would agree that the Pharisees were the epitome of lawlessness even though they kept the Law of Moses outwardly which is why the disciples were shocked when Jesus said "Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees - you will not enter the kingdom.".

Lawlessness applies to all of us that think we can create and maintain our own righteousness by what we do or don't do. It can manifest itself in sexual sinning, malice, slandering. All sinning is a manifestation of believing in the lie "that if I do good - then I will be good".

This is not subjecting ourselves to the righteousness of God in Christ and attempting to do our own righteousness of which those that think they are doing by keeping the Law of Moses. Rom. 10:1-6

Lawlessness in it's root is trying to live by the Law of Moses instead of the life of Christ now.

In the New Covenant true lawlessness has it's roots in rejecting the grace of God and the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection and instead trusting in the flesh and not trusting in God's strength and finished work on the cross by Jesus our Lord. ( like the carnal keeping of commandments of the Law of Moses )

Seeing that in the New Covenant that we have died to the Law of Moses and have been released from the law and not under the law anymore but under grace only - we live by His life in us now which bears the fruit of the love that you are talking about.

We live now in the New Covenant by the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law of Moses is not of faith ), the law of the spirit of life in Christ, the law of liberty in Christ Jesus - the law of Christ Himself manifesting in our lives to reflect His love and grace towards others. We thus fulfill the whole intent of the Law of Moses as Christ Himself is the real substance of the law and in Him it has been fulfilled and completely satisfied.

Blessings back to you my brother.

gotime · Apr 6, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I would agree that the Pharisees were the epitome of lawlessness even though they kept the Law of Moses outwardly which is why the disciples were shocked when Jesus said "Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees - you will not enter the kingdom.".

Lawlessness applies to all of us that think we can create and maintain our own righteousness by what we do or don't do. It can manifest itself in sexual sinning, malice, slandering. All sinning is a manifestation of believing in the lie "that if I do good - then I will be good".

This is not subjecting ourselves to the righteousness of God in Christ and attempting to do our own righteousness of which those that think they are doing by keeping the Law of Moses. Rom. 10:1-6

Lawlessness in it's root is trying to live by the Law of Moses instead of the life of Christ now.

In the New Covenant true lawlessness has it's roots in rejecting the grace of God and the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection and instead trusting in the flesh and not trusting in God's strength and finished work on the cross by Jesus our Lord. ( like the carnal keeping of commandments of the Law of Moses )

Seeing that in the New Covenant that we have died to the Law of Moses and have been released from the law and not under the law anymore but under grace only - we live by His life in us now which bears the fruit of the love that you are talking about.

We live now in the New Covenant by the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law of Moses is not of faith ), the law of the spirit of life in Christ, the law of liberty in Christ Jesus - the law of Christ Himself manifesting in our lives to reflect His love and grace towards others. We thus fulfill the whole intent of the Law of Moses as Christ Himself is the real substance of the law and in Him it has been fulfilled and completely satisfied.

Blessings back to you my brother.

I really like what you said there about rejecting the grace of Christ. That is at the root of all lawlessness whether it is works bast lawlessness or a simple rejection of Christ lawlessness.

Yahshua · Apr 6, 2017

I hate to be the "hair splitter" but I think it's important to say as the conversation has moved here...

God's Grace isn't unmerited favor. God's Mercy is unmerited favor, while his grace is his divine strength.

We deserve the same punishment that Christ received but who didn't deserve it...yet God pardoned us of our transgressions through nothing we could've done to earn it. That's us receiving mercy. God had mercy on us while we were yet sinners and sent his Son to die, demonstrating his love for us. "Have mercy on me, a sinner." Upon finding us guilty God decides he forgives us and wipes the record clean so that we are Justified as "right"(eous).

Keeping from us a judgment we deserve is mercy...but the opposite is also mercy: giving us what we don't deserve. Scripture says God gives rain to the "just" AND to the "unjust" equally, as well as the sun to both good people and evil people (Matthew 5:45). That's having unmerited favor. So even godless unbelievers have God's unmerited favor in certain situations. No one earns the sun or the rain and no one earns salvation (i.e. to be pardoned from sin).

But when we are made right, God empowers us to live a godly life. God's Mercy is His unmerited favor. But God's Grace is His divine empowerment.

Matthew 19:26
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Philippians 4:13
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”

2 Corinthians 12:9
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

James 4:6
6 But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “- God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

"Unmerited favor" means there's nothing a person has to do to receive the favor. Nothing. That means a person doesn't have to be humble because that would be placing a requirement or condition on favor that's "unmerited" (i.e. doesn't need to be earned to be received). So God shouldn't be opposed to a prideful person having his "favor" because that prideful person doesn't need to "merit" it. However, it makes perfect sense to give God's divine strength only to those who are humble because they know they need it to live godly and can't live godly without it.

Titus 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

God's unmerited favor doesn't teach us self-control or to say "no" to ungodliness because again there's nothing we have to do to receive God's favor or to keep his favor afterwards. It's unmerited; requires no work like self-control or saying "no" to ungodliness.

2 Corinthians 6:1
“We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.”

God's unmerited favor can't be received "in vain" because there's nothing we had to do to receive it and nothing we need to do to keep it; nothing to do with it at all. Again it's "unmerited", solely God's discretion to show favor to us or not. But God's divine empowerment & strength is a resource that we can *choose* to use or not use. And if we don't use it once given to us we are indeed wasting it; receiving it in vain.

----

And here let's take the following passage about Christ...

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only Begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

With the definition grace as "divine empowerment" or "divine strength" this passage makes sense. but if we make grace to mean "unmerited favor" then it creates a problem in our understanding of Christ because at no point did Christ need God's unmerited favor, for anything. In fact, he actually merited EVERYTHING by living a sinless life; being only one who is worthy of it all.

TLDR: I think this is the source of our disagreements. We've conflated two separate but *closely related* concepts. The best way to see the difference between the two is to say something like this:

- Because of God's mercy towards us we've received his gift of grace."

- Because of God's unmerited favor towards us we've received his gift of divine empowerment & strength."

- We did not earn the gift, but once given to us we must *ourselves use* the gift because it's a resource.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

gotime · Apr 6, 2017

Yahshua said:

I hate to be the "hair splitter" but I think it's important to say as the conversation has moved here...

God's Grace isn't unmerited favor. God's Mercy is unmerited favor, while his grace is his divine strength.

We deserve the same punishment that Christ received but who didn't deserve it...yet God pardoned us of our transgressions through nothing we could've done to earn it. That's us receiving mercy. God had mercy on us while we were yet sinners and sent his Son to die, demonstrating his love for us. "Have mercy on me, a sinner." Upon finding us guilty God decides he forgives us and wipes the record clean so that we are Justified as "right"(eous).

Keeping from us a judgment we deserve is mercy...but the opposite is also mercy: giving us what we don't deserve. Scripture says God gives rain to the "just" AND to the "unjust" equally, as well as the sun to both good people and evil people (Matthew 5:45). That's having unmerited favor. So even godless unbelievers have God's unmerited favor in certain situations. No one earns the sun or the rain and no one earns salvation (i.e. to be pardoned from sin).

But when we are made right, God empowers us to live a godly life. God's Mercy is His unmerited favor. But God's Grace is His divine empowerment.

Matthew 19:26
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Philippians 4:13
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”

2 Corinthians 12:9
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

James 4:6
6 But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “- God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

"Unmerited favor" means there's nothing a person has to do to receive the favor. Nothing. That means a person doesn't have to be humble because that would be placing a requirement or condition on favor that's "unmerited" (i.e. doesn't need to be earned to be received). So God shouldn't be opposed to a prideful person having his "favor" because that prideful person doesn't need to "merit" it. However, it makes perfect sense to give God's divine strength only to those who are humble because they know they need it to live godly and can't live godly without it.

Titus 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

God's unmerited favor doesn't teach us self-control or to say "no" to ungodliness because again there's nothing we have to do to receive God's favor or to keep his favor afterwards. It's unmerited; requires no work like self-control or saying "no" to ungodliness.

2 Corinthians 6:1
“We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.”

God's unmerited favor can't be received "in vain" because there's nothing we had to do to receive it and nothing we need to do to keep it; nothing to do with it at all. Again it's "unmerited", solely God's discretion to show favor to us or not. But God's divine empowerment & strength is a resource that we can *choose* to use or not use. And if we don't use it once given to us we are indeed wasting it; receiving it in vain.

----

And here let's take the following passage about Christ...

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only Begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

With the definition grace as "divine empowerment" or "divine strength" this passage makes sense. but if we make grace to mean "unmerited favor" then it creates a problem in our understanding of Christ because at no point did Christ need God's unmerited favor, for anything. In fact, he actually merited EVERYTHING by living a sinless life; being only one who is worthy of it all.

TLDR: I think this is the source of our disagreements. We've conflated two separate but *closely related* concepts. The best way to see the difference between the two is to say something like this:

- Because of God's mercy towards us we've received his gift of grace."

- Because of God's unmerited favor towards us we've received his gift of divine empowerment & strength."

- We did not earn the gift, but once given to us we must *ourselves use* the gift because it's a resource.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Grace so missunderstood, thanx for this post that clearly shows that Grace is much more than unmerited favor. Paul often spoke of grace as the power of God. blessings.

Grace777x70 · Apr 6, 2017

gotime said:

I agree. Lawlessness has many subtle forms and some of them look good as in Jesus' example of those that said they did many good works but He never knew them. And also in blatant outward sinning such as living an immoral life.

They are all manifestations of eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which was unleashed in the world from Adam and Eve. Both good and evil fruit are on the same tree of self-works - only one "looks better" to our natural eye and our own attempts "to do good".

The fruit of this tree of "good and evil" is the basis for all works-based self-righteousness/holiness belief systems. They are anti-Christ at their very core.

Grace777x70 · Apr 6, 2017

gotime said:

Amen....I agree. Grace and mercy seem to be related. True grace is more then just unmerited favor but it is a part of grace for sure. It is also an empowerment to transform us by His life and power through the agency of the Holy Spirit. Grace never leaves us in the condition we are found in.

There is the "acceptance grace" first - then the "empowering grace" that releases His life in and through us. Many times we try to dictate the "empowering grace" without being cemented in His "acceptance" grace which is not based on our behavior but on Him only.

We see these two aspects of grace with Jesus dealing with the woman caught in adultery. Jesus never condemned her first which the Law of Moses said she stood condemned. This is the unmerited favor aspect. Then the "Go and sin no more" is the empowering aspect of grace. We are saved by grace through faith.

As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6 We received Him by His acceptance grace without us doing anything on our part and we receive His empowering grace to walk in this life in the very same way.

PeterJens · Apr 6, 2017

mailmandan said:

Hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9) in which we are made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ, yet there is ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness "perfecting holiness" becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

All good stuff. God bless

Stephen63 · Apr 6, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Glad you used Heb 10: 29.....

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Stephen63 · Apr 6, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Does that mean you gawk at those posts?

Grace777x70 · Apr 6, 2017

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example of this below:

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between "receiving the knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

Stephen63 · Apr 6, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Folks, you couldn't guess how many times already G777 & myself have went thru this ordeal on this one scripture.

I think every time I use a different commentary to prove my "well-intentioned" use of scripture.

Despite what you think of me, consider this commentary by a well-known & received scholar.

Despite what you think of me, see for yourself, whether in this commentary, or another well known one, how that the writer of Hebrews is talking of true christians going apostate.

Yes, it does happen, & Hebrews speaks of it in 2 or 3 places, with plenty of verses around it for context..... no isolation.

Sinners can't apostatize..... one can't "fall away" from sin.

Religious people cannot apostatize..... several in here have plainly stated they weren't saved to begin with.

In spite of what you think of me, you deserve to know the truth.

G777 has a bad habit of being incorrect. You should really check his stuff out before putting your "like" on his posts.

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 6, 2017

gb9 said:

No one is saying this. Grace will only save the faithful. We say remain in faith. You say im forced to remain in faith. We say people can backslide and possibly come to a state of apostasy in the heart. You say people that fall away was never saved to begin with.

Either way our warning to believers to remain in faith and your warning to false believers to truly repent, either way we are trying to save the same soul from falling away/ false belief.

The ingredients of faith is a faith in action. We believe we surrender in obedience to the Spirit to do good works and you believe God moves you without your control to do good works.

Either way I have never seen my church as selfish but always giving, and I hope you would say the same. So either way we are building the kingdom and bringing souls to Christ.

Scholars debate over this subject for many years so no suprise we would. Each side uses the same arguments but fact is we have scriptures and you have scriptures.

wsblind · Apr 6, 2017

mailmandan said:

This verse is not describing an unsaved person as apposed to a saved person.

Walking in the light is descriptive of a believer who is filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit. We have fellowship with Him when we are doing this. If we(as saved believers) don't have fellowship with Him(grieving or quenching the Spirit) we, as believers, walk in darkness and do not practice the truth. It doesn't mean we are not saved.

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 7, 2017

Acts 20:29-31New International Version (NIV)

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

These false teachers knew how to blend in and once they drew believers away into a false teaching. Jewish people were hard to spot in this falling away since jewish people were good at looking Holy. They knew how to look Christian without the heart of a christian.

1 Timothy 4:1-2New International Version (NIV)

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

As believers and the battle of the mind. We must test the Spirits and not fall into false belief that could lead to our consciences being seared by following a lie that leads us away from God.

Acts 5New International Version (NIV)

Ananias and Sapphira
5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died.

Here is a sad example of believers who allowed evil into their minds so much so they lied and suffered greatly. Only God knows if they are in Heaven right now. But either way satan led these two away, maybe not to apostasy like scriptures warn but it very well could of led to that if the Spirit didnt step in and kill them.

Either way they made the wrong choice with the Spirit living within them. And paid the consequences for deliberate sin.

truthhurts · Apr 7, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Acts 20:29-31New International Version (NIV)

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

These false teachers knew how to blend in and once they drew believers away into a false teaching. Jewish people were hard to spot in this falling away since jewish people were good at looking Holy. They knew how to look Christian without the heart of a christian.

1 Timothy 4:1-2New International Version (NIV)

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

As believers and the battle of the mind. We must test the Spirits and not fall into false belief that could lead to our consciences being seared by following a lie that leads us away from God.

Acts 5New International Version (NIV)

Ananias and Sapphira
5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died.

Here is a sad example of believers who allowed evil into their minds so much so they lied and suffered greatly. Only God knows if they are in Heaven right now. But either way satan led these two away, maybe not to apostasy like scriptures warn but it very well could of led to that if the Spirit didnt step in and kill them.

Either way they made the wrong choice with the Spirit living within them. And paid the consequences for deliberate sin.

Their first Sin was Jealousy over Barnabas had done....

Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

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