SIGNS AND WONDERS

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#41
Satan cannot heal or cast out demons. Jesus made that very plain. I am genuinely concerned for anyone who believes the opposite.
Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Where did you get the doctrine that Satan cannot heal? If sickness came from the devil, you mean he cannot remove it, in order to accomplish his purpose?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#42
Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Where did you get the doctrine that Satan cannot heal? If sickness came from the devil, you mean he cannot remove it, in order to accomplish his purpose?
You're misapplying a parable and out of context...
Context shows better what this so called "healing" is.
It's pretense of being healed when one is actually not healed at all:

Jeremiah 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Was there an actual healing? Can satan provide peace? Can satan heal their wound?
But why not pull more context on the very example you gave. The context says that the beast "was, and is not".
"Is not", means the beast is actually DEAD. Which is why it's such a marvel about it still going.
Our old unregenerate wild man (=the beast) was crucified at the cross, Jesus gave it a deadly wound. It's a defeated foe.
We see the same thing with the first Adam, our old man (the new man being Christ). Death moved into Adam's body because he ate of the tree, deadly wound was given to the flesh in that day that he ate of the tree, right away death was written into the body, just like God said it would. Adam is actually dead as per God's promise. Yet, Adam doesn't seem to be dying immediately ("and yet is"). It is the same with all of us. Death is coded into our physical bodies because of sin. People are dead in their sins. But satan runs his "self help" campaign saying peace, peace, as if we can have life in the body of sin. There is no life in it. Satan can heal no one.

Where did i get the doctrine that satan cannot heal or cast demons out?
Here: I paraphrased Jesus in my original post,

Matthew 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. (...)
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#43
You're misapplying a parable and out of context...
Context shows better what this so called "healing" is.
It's pretense of being healed when one is actually not healed at all:

Jeremiah 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Was there an actual healing? Can satan provide peace? Can satan heal their wound?
But why not pull more context on the very example you gave. The context says that the beast "was, and is not".
"Is not", means the beast is actually DEAD. Which is why it's such a marvel about it still going.
Our old unregenerate wild man (=the beast) was crucified at the cross, Jesus gave it a deadly wound. It's a defeated foe.
We see the same thing with the first Adam, our old man (the new man being Christ). Death moved into Adam's body because he ate of the tree, deadly wound was given to the flesh in that day that he ate of the tree, right away death was written into the body, just like God said it would. Adam is actually dead as per God's promise. Yet, Adam doesn't seem to be dying immediately ("and yet is"). It is the same with all of us. Death is coded into our physical bodies because of sin. People are dead in their sins. But satan runs his "self help" campaign saying peace, peace, as if we can have life in the body of sin. There is no life in it. Satan can heal no one.

Where did i get the doctrine that satan cannot heal or cast demons out?
Here: I paraphrased Jesus in my original post,

So when you claim that Jesus made it very plain, you are actually saying it’s because you believe Jesus was actually saying that, and offer your interpretation Of what Jesus was meaning there

Alright then
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#44
So when you claim that Jesus made it very plain, you are actually saying it’s because you believe Jesus was actually saying that, and offer your interpretation Of what Jesus was meaning there

Alright then
Have you read the Bible quotes I posted (which you asked me to)? Or you just skim through posts and respond partially.
I quoted the Bible for the second time in the above post.
Jesus was accused of healing people by a demon, and said to the pharisees "how can satan cast out satan" in response, adding also their sons as an example ("if you say this about Me, by which spirit do your children cast them out?") further establishing this truth. Jesus plainly says that satan cannot cast out satan. What is "my interpretation" there? What do you think Jesus "meant"?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#45
Have you read the Bible quotes I posted (which you asked me to)? Or you just skim through posts and respond partially.
I quoted the Bible for the second time in the above post.
Jesus was accused of healing people by a demon, and said to the pharisees "how can satan cast out satan" in response, adding also their sons as an example ("if you say this about Me, by which spirit do your children cast them out?") further establishing this truth. Jesus plainly says that satan cannot cast out satan. What is "my interpretation" there? What do you think Jesus "meant"?
Casting out evil spirit is not equivalent to healing. Yes, as Jesus cast out the evil spirit, that fellow was healed I agree.

To use that example to form a doctrine that Satan "cannot heal" is you trying to read into that passage.

On the contrary, Jesus himself alerted the 12 that

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Satan himself will empower people to show the same great signs and wonders that Jesus did in his first coming.

There is no reason to exclude healing from those.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#46
It is unfortunate to hear of and see so many people who say they believe in God, but in truth they do not believe Him.

They say they believe in God, but not in His power.

He is call the All Mighty for a reason for there is nothing He cannot accomplish with ease.

Are we not taught and believe He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Why the fuss over miracles?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#47
In Acts we see all the miracles ( apart from drinking posion, however we wouldn't see to write down if the appostles drank poison and was not affected ,because there would be no evidence. They would just have drank and been fine. No one would see anything and they wouldn't know themselves . Point being We see these signs accompanying the apostles.

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19¶So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
mark 16
this to confirm the message . All the above signs we see in the book of Acts . Today we have a complete bible. It is not necessary to have signs accompanying the message we bring . The Apostles have laid the foundation.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#48
Casting out evil spirit is not equivalent to healing. Yes, as Jesus cast out the evil spirit, that fellow was healed I agree.

To use that example to form a doctrine that Satan "cannot heal" is you trying to read into that passage.

On the contrary, Jesus himself alerted the 12 that

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Satan himself will empower people to show the same great signs and wonders that Jesus did in his first coming.

There is no reason to exclude healing from those.
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles???

Several "???" which you don't normally see in the Bible. This is because, how crazy the notion is, that one can pick grapes from thorns.
God's spirit and demonic spirit have different fruit.
You're basically arguing that God can't be differentiated from satan mimicking Him...
If it is as you say, then you cannot prove that you're not deceived right now. But I'm not sure if you're noticing that...
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#49
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles???

Several "???" which you don't normally see in the Bible. This is because, how crazy the notion is that one can pick grapes from thorns.
God's spirit and demonic spirit have different fruit.
But you're basically arguing that God can't be differentiated from satan mimicking Him...
If it is as you say, then you cannot prove that you're not deceived right now. But I'm not sure if you're noticing that...
Jesus said that himself that there will be false prophets and antichrist showing great signs and wonders in that verse and warned that there will be Jews that might be misled during the tribulation.

You have a different understanding of Matthew 24:24?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#50
Jesus said that himself that there will be false signs and wonders in that verse and warned that there will be Jews that might be misled during the tribulation.

You have a different understanding of Matthew 24:24?
So what if there are signs and wonders? The fruit is always the discerning point who are things coming from. The problem is people are prone to look at/go by appearances.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#51
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles???

Several "???" which you don't normally see in the Bible. This is because, how crazy the notion is, that one can pick grapes from thorns.
God's spirit and demonic spirit have different fruit.
You're basically arguing that God can't be differentiated from satan mimicking Him...
If it is as you say, then you cannot prove that you're not deceived right now. But I'm not sure if you're noticing that...
You have to be careful of Mathew 7 because its talking about false prophets and what they 'teach ' Not there behaviour or what they do .
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#52
You have to be careful of Mathew 7 because its talking about false prophets and what they 'teach ' Not there behaviour or what they do .
These don't work on their own.
There is a false spirit that works through false prophets, just like there's the true Spirit that works through the true ones.
Different spirit bears different fruit.
And yes this captures their behavior as well... false prophets are laced with immorality, chasing lucre, seeking praise of men, idolatry, etc. in and out of Bible. Because there's a wrong spirit in them they can't live righteously.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#53
So what if there are signs and wonders? The fruit is always the discerning point who are things coming from. The problem is people are prone to look at/go by appearances.
So satan can also perform signs and wonders, you agree with that implication from Matthew 24:24 correct?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
113
#54
I do not apologize for posting this as it is stupendous and I do not apologize to those who believe that these things do not happen today as it is very clear they do.

I am reading the book "The Night the Angels Came" by Chrissie Chapman who was doing medical work in Burundi.

Here is another story

It is very common in Africa on súnday mornings to find people sitting around the perimeter of the church as 10-12,000 people meet to worship God. Some have walked for several hours with sick relatives and friends. Mothers come with their children along with the deaf, the blind and even the dying. They wait until the end of the service which can last for 4-5 hours. They make their way forward for prayer. Week after week Jesus heals them. Blind eyes are opened, the deaf begin to hear, the sick are healed, and the captives are set free as the name of Jesus is spoken over them. It is without doubt one of the most humbling experiences to witness. The touch of Jesus is priceless.

The question I have for you is why they happen and why do they happen today ?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,782
113
#55
In Acts we see all the miracles ( apart from drinking posion, however we wouldn't see to write down if the appostles drank poison and was not affected ,because there would be no evidence. They would just have drank and been fine. No one would see anything and they wouldn't know themselves . Point being We see these signs accompanying the apostles.
...
this to confirm the message . All the above signs we see in the book of Acts . Today we have a complete bible. It is not necessary to have signs accompanying the message we bring . The Apostles have laid the foundation.
First, that has nothing to do with the OP.

Second, "not necessary" does not equate in any way to "never happens". Try applying some elementary logic to your views.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#56
First, that has nothing to do with the OP.

Second, "not necessary" does not equate in any way to "never happens". Try applying some elementary logic to your views.
Isnt the Op about ' signs and wonders ' ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#57
I believe miracle still happen today, but as a person from poor country, I witness some miracle from the devil
. Both God and devil able to make miracle.
About 4 years ago, I was sick and barely walk, my friend call me if I am able to come to his house, he will bring me to the visiting pastor. I was weak and unable to come, but if he give me his phone I will call him. Hi did and I call him. He start pray and ask me to run, I said, I can't, I am barely walk. He instruck me to say, in Jesus name than run. I was so weak and not able to run, he say one more time, after 3 time I am able to run and still is.

But I know some people go to shaman and experience miracle.
My dad helper son was suffer from tonsil. He went to shaman, and shaman pray than take his tonsil with spoon, no pain killer, or modern tool.

Both God and devil able to do miracle, but the devil not give free miracle, you have to pay with your soul.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#58
I believe miracle still happen today, but as a person from poor country, I witness some miracle from the devil
. Both God and devil able to make miracle.
About 4 years ago, I was sick and barely walk, my friend call me if I am able to come to his house, he will bring me to the visiting pastor. I was weak and unable to come, but if he give me his phone I will call him. Hi did and I call him. He start pray and ask me to run, I said, I can't, I am barely walk. He instruck me to say, in Jesus name than run. I was so weak and not able to run, he say one more time, after 3 time I am able to run and still is.

But I know some people go to shaman and experience miracle.
My dad helper son was suffer from tonsil. He went to shaman, and shaman pray than take his tonsil with spoon, no pain killer, or modern tool.

Both God and devil able to do miracle, but the devil not give free miracle, you have to pay with your soul.
I think Galatians 4:9 KJV sums it up well

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”

Signs and wonders belong to the nation Israel (Psalms 74:9), and is the central part of their gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 10:5-8).

Now that the nation Israel has rejected God, we in the Body of Christ are known of God directly under the gospel of the grace of God.

There is thus no need for us to turn back again to the "weak and beggarly elements" of Israel's program, which includes the manifestation of signs and wonders.

We walk by faith and not by sight.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#60
I believe Jesus before see Him. but nothing wrong if we sick and ask Him to heal us, up to Him if He heal us or not, He know the best for us.
Yes, of course nothing wrong. I usually try to keep in mind what Paul instructs us in Romans 8 regarding our attitude when we are sick

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.