So...how old is the Earth?

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Jul 6, 2009
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Inerrant is a misleading choice of words; the Bible never claims to be inerrant, and such a claim would not be self-verifying if the Bible did make it. So no, I don't.

That doesn't mean I don't believe in Creation, and moreover, it doesn't mean that I think the Creation Narrative of Genesis 1 is 'untrue'.

But when the preponderance of evidence indicates an older Earth, the scientist cannot ignore that evidence and say that the Earth is 6000 years old, anymore than science can prove the Resurrection of Christ or that the sunset is beautiful.
 
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Graybeard

Guest
God bless you all!! :) It is truly interesting to read such comments. I am going to try to keep my comment rather short but if anyone would truly like to discuss this matter in more detail please email me. Before we ask the question "How old is the earth?" Lets ask "Do we need to know how old the earth is?" I would say for our walk and relationship with the Lord, no we do not. Remember our important faith is to us Christians. I am not going to pull out bible versus to support this for I think we can all agree on this, but I would be happy to give versus to anyone that wants them, just email me :). Facts from science are interesting to know for our understanding of how things work. Science will never fully be able to prove God, for if it could or would, where does faith come in? God has hidden certain facts from us. God's plan is perfect and the more you study the bible in a spiritual way, and stop looking at the bible as a book of facts and more of a book of instruction of spirit and instruction of relationship with our loving Father that is when true knowledge comes. It is not logic or facts/words from man that moves hearts towards God, it is the Spirit of God. You can not argue God's existence to someone that God is not ready to use, but you can plant the seed by telling them the good news of Jesus, then rest is up to God. We are to love and encourage others. We Christians are of one body. We all worship the same God, we are all motivated and powered by the same Spirit. Instead of bringing out questions that could divide us lets encourage each other so we stay united. Where we disagree lets come together in prayer and seek knowledge of God, not out of pride in trying to be right...but in love so we all share the same knowledge. We are different, but one in the seance we have different roles, but of one body. We have different jobs and gifts but we should be in harmony with the body. As the heart, lungs, ears, eyes all have different roles but they work together to keep the body going in harmony.

I love you all!! Would love to talk to each one of you!! If I could I would love to have a personal relationship with each of you just as God desires it. So we could come together to spend time with our Father. You are all my brothers and sisters, and to know each one of you like such would be a blessing. I am here for you for any encouragement I can give, I have read this post yesterday and spent some hard time in prayer and with God before I responded, I do not say this to boast at all but to let you know I do not think we should take such questions lightly, instead of looking at the questions literally we should look at the spirit behind the question. Same with the bible, even though I do believe with faith that all scripture is true and inspired by God, we need to look at the spirit behind the bible, what are the motives behind it, instead of looking at it literally with logic. The scripture is holy,it is the Word of God. it is LIVING. This is why we can not understand it with out the Spirit teaching us.

This is all I am going to say in this post. If you would like to talk to me more about this please email me on here or my personal email.

[email protected]

May God bless you all!!

with Love from our Father,

Donald A. Dean
Greetings to you
I agree with you in part, however, we cannot always bury our heads in the sand every time we do not understand or disagree on something for the sake of unity, as how will we come to unity if we do not discuss things openly?
The objectives of these discussions in no certain terms mean to prove if God exists, that is ridiculous.
This is a Christian forum so I think to have discussions that are only aimed at the unbeliever is not really going to bear that much fruit, if you know what I mean as most if not all here are born again.
You say "do we need to know how old the earth is"...of course not! but as I have said in a previous post if it does not interest you, well move on (not being nasty), for some do find it interesting.
Yes The Word is for instruction but there is more to The Word than what meets the eye as out of it comes many treasures.
God Bless
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
While I agree that this isn't particularly important to our faith and our salvation, I've realized that this topic could be a huge stumbling block for someone, especially if they have a lot of faith in science. So while some people may not need answers to continue their walk with God, there are others who stumble over this sort of thing. Even if we aren't discussing it for our personal salvation, we could be learning something from what everyone is discussing so when presented with this topic as a challenge, we can witness correctly to someone.

Does that make sense?
 
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RODR

Guest
We can't avoid the fact that we live in this planet, so I think it's good to ask ourselves about this kind of things, we need to be prepared because some people think that the bible is against science, but that's not true.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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Aw God bless you both!!! Yes you are both right!! But there also can be danger in trying to find a answer to unanswerable questions, or at least that can not be proven in todays world. We have Satan working against us, trying to get us away from God....we need to be FULLY aware of this when trying to dig into questions like such. I am not at all saying hide your head in sand or such, I am saying as christian accept by faith that some questions are unanswerable but God knows and he is in control, lean on Gods understanding not your own. Yes we can learn alot from such discussions. I love them!!! But at the same time if not said with the right spirit behind it, it can decieve someone (not saying THIS discussion has the "wrong" spirit) Everyone in this discussion has very awesome points. We also need to be awhare and very careful what we say as Christians, we should be encouraging others and witnessing to non believers out of love. Imagine a non believer, or a very new christian comes accross a discussion by christians, and find that WOW they dont agree, this can turn them away from God, not saying it WILL, but CAN. They can think if they cant agree, there must be no truth in it. I know that non believers stumble on this all the time, for its thrown at me alot. And in a way, I can see what they mean. Now just listen to me on this one, I am not AT ALL talking about THIS paticurlar discussion. I am talking in very general terms. So please dont take it that I am writing about anyone or any comments in this forum or discussion. I watched a documentary on TBN about this question though, on "How old is the earth?" It was by so called christians that mix Science and Christianity , supporting the billions of year theory. Now remember this is on TBN a christian network, as in a non believer will take this as THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE, or a christian with little faith maybe start to question there belief when watching this. These people acted with out a dout the earth is billions of years old. They went into christian book stores almost mocking them for believing in the 6000 year theory. And I am thinking...these are christians? This is just one example I see in the media and main stream christianity. Its almost like christianity of today is quick to judge and is losing the Spirit of God in there message. Honestly if we get our wisdom from the SAME source we should be able to agree. Now i am kinda getting off topic for what this thread is about but I am not sure how many people are awhare of the recent decision of ELCA Lutheran Church. We who disagree with eachother we should come together and figure out why we disagree, and honestly seeking wisdom from God. OK i think its bad enough we have different denominations, but then the denominations sometimes break up and have different synods its sometimes mind boggling. Ok so now we have one lutheran church synod saying one thing and the other saying something else...come on...if anything the denominations should agree. ELCA just put in there doctrine that gays can marry and gays can be priests. I am not going to get into if its right or wrong. But we have one Lutheren church saying no about gay marriage and another saying yes. This is a big issue to NOT agree on with in a denomintion. Its pride about being right. And its focusing more on the religion part of it rather then the spirit of it I believe. I dont know i just htink as christians we should seek unity since we are in the same boat and will all end up at the same place. but peace be with you all!!

God bless,

Donald A. Dean
 
Jan 8, 2009
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Anyone that believe the earth is more than 6000 years does not understand the teaching in Hebrews 4 about the day of rest yet to come (the sabbath day rest) The sabbath day rest is the 1000 year period known as the Millennium, when Christ will reign, This will be on the 7th day or 7th thousand years. From creation until the start of the Millennial reign will be 6000 years, and the reign of Christ will last for 1000 years the 7th day.
And as I said previously, it is quite naive to think that numerical symbolism (multiples of 7) in the bible corresponds to literal chronological years in our time-scale.
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
I suppose that because the Bible says the sky is solid then science is wrong and the sky is solid. Why do you insist that the creation story must be taken literally?

.
This is incorrect the Bible does not say the 'sky is solid', you just make that up to bear false witness. Now the 'firmament' - raqiya does not mean 'solid' - it means expanse and visible arch of sky , so the Bible is literally true and you are adding false words to the Biblical record and that is sin, a major sin in fact, you refuse to repent and continue to agrue from a false position, you are not helping yourself or anybody else, you should seriously reconsider your words.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”
I think Densetzu is right re: solid sky. It also has to be solid so that the language of Genesis with their being waters above , in the form of a solid ice sheet or something like that makes sense. A solid sky earth is also how the other civilisations (Egyptians etc) viewed the earth. It makes sense that the Hebrews would have beileved in a solid sky considering they spent 400 years in Egypt, everyone would have learnt it at school I guess.
 
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Jul 6, 2009
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This is incorrect the Bible does not say the 'sky is solid', you just make that up to bear false witness. Now the 'firmament' - raqiya does not mean 'solid' - it means expanse and visible arch of sky
I didn't make it up, I learned it from extensive reading on the subject. Also, your etymological advice would carry more weight with me if you hadn't publicly argued that the sun orbits around the Earth.

Would you also like to argue that the stars are literally in the raqiya?
And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth": and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also.
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”
I think Densetzu is right re: solid sky. It also has to be solid so that the language of Genesis with their being waters above , in the form of a solid ice sheet or something like that makes sense. A solid sky earth is also how the other civilisations (Egyptians etc) viewed the earth. It makes sense that the Hebrews would have beileved in a solid sky considering they spent 400 years in Egypt, everyone would have learnt it at school I guess.
I'm not suprised 'Snail that you believe Densetzu's false words are right.

But more importantly let me explain the meaning of raqia from more authoritive sources, for the other Christian readers of this thread, so to clear up the confusion.

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament - R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer, Jr., Bruce K Walte.

raqia. Firmament. (NSAB renders more correctly as "expanse" ; cf. riqqu ' e pahim (Num. 16:38 [H 17:3], literally "an expansion of plates," i.e. broard plates, beaten out (BDB, p.956). raqia may refer to limited space, such as the canopy over the cherubim, under the throne in Ezekiel's vision (1:22,26). Or it may refer to the broad "expanse of heaven" (Dan. 12:3, NSAB) as it does in thirteen of its seventeen occurrances.

raqia is the most important derivative of raqa, It identifies God's heavenly expanse. The Mosaic account of creation uses raqai interchangeably for the "open expanse of the heavens" in which birds fly (Gen. 1:20 NASB) i.e. the atmosphere (H.C. Leupold, Exposition of Genesis, I, p.59), and that farther expanse of sky in which God places "the lights...for signs and for seasons", i.e. empty space.

To this day negative criticism speaks of the vault, or "firmament", regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, the rendering of Job 37:18, "The skies, strong (hazaquim) as a molten mirror (cf. Ps 150:1, their 'mighty expanse'), changed by the RSV to read, "the skies, hard." Babylonian mythology recounts how Marduk used half of Tiamat's carcass to form the heavens held in place by a crossbar!. In the OT, however, Isaiah insists that God 'stretches out the heavens [lit] like guaze (doq, Isa. 40:22); and even Ezekiel's limited canopy is "as the eye of awesome ice" (Ezk. 1:22) i.e. transperant, "shining like crystal" (RSV) through so dazzling to be terrifying (KD; cf. Dan. 12:3 "brightness").


OK, so what we have here is as Hebrew being derived partially from the Babylonian language there is a misunderstanding due to the influence of flawed Babylonian mythology which believed in a solid sky, however the Biblical account clearly redifines the term to mean 'heavenly expanse' of an atmospheric open consistency.

the "rolling out" and "streatching" compared to a parchment or 'molten mirror' a molten mirror referring to the terrible brightness and fluidity, indeed molten is not referring to something solid but something flexible and fluid and also bright and firey, but atmospherealso has a consistency and structure and weight and as the heavens on a huge scale the Bible give a workingman like definition of a great God at work with materials, the expanses of the Heavens are not a vacuum of empty nothingness but indeed have a weight and structure and this is clear in the Biblical account.

again I urge you to reconsider your position because you are in error.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
I didn't make it up, I learned it from extensive reading on the subject. Also, your etymological advice would carry more weight with me if you hadn't publicly argued that the sun orbits around the Earth.

Would you also like to argue that the stars are literally in the raqiya?
And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth": and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also.
The sun does orbit the earth just like the Bible says so, I think you will find that the very latest astronomical evidence agress with a Geocentric universe, God will reveal more of this as time goes on, most of course will reject God's word and what their eyes and senses tell them and simply believe the lies of Satan, this is to be expected and is prophecised as so.
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
The sun does orbit the earth just like the Bible says so, I think you will find that the very latest astronomical evidence agress with a Geocentric universe, God will reveal more of this as time goes on, most of course will reject God's word and what their eyes and senses tell them and simply believe the lies of Satan, this is to be expected and is prophecised as so.

wait...what? where does it say this? I'm highly curious to see where this comes from.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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OK, so what we have here is as Hebrew being derived partially from the Babylonian language there is a misunderstanding due to the influence of flawed Babylonian mythology which believed in a solid sky, however the Biblical account clearly redifines the term to mean 'heavenly expanse' of an atmospheric open consistency.
aha! So you admit that Hebrew is influenced by Babylonian mythology and therefore the bible, particularly the old testament, is also subject to this flawed Babylonian mythology.

It really does little justice to the modern-day scientific credibility of the bible when the authors of the bible can't explain the sky any better than it being "beaten out" as a hard bronze mirror would be beaten out.

I'm not interested in what the modern day versions such as the NASB have to say. Obviously our modern day bible versions have been rendered for us in such a way as to incorporate the latest secular scientific knowledge available that we have about our universe. The authors of the old testament scripture did exactly the same thing, use the best secular knowledge they had at the time even if that was to borrow Egyptian or Babylonian world-views.

There's always a thin line of goofiness running throughout your "scientific" arguments Cup-of-Ruin , where on the one hand, you appeal to the bible for scientific facts which are influenced by Egyptian and Babylonian mythology and their secular knowledge they had at the time, and on the other hand, appeal to modern day bible versions such as NASB which are written with the benefit of hindsight and the scientific knowledge we have today. Treating the bible as the be-all and end-all of established scientific fact and appealing to this ancient book for modern-day science, is goofy.
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

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aha! So you admit that Hebrew is influenced by Babylonian mythology and therefore the bible, particularly the old testament, is also subject to this flawed Babylonian mythology.
No that is not what I said, I understand you have limited knowledge of linguistics, but please pay attention. Hebrew is derived from Babylonian Aramaic, Phoenician and Chaldean, the Hebrew scripture we are discussing is not the only version of the OT in fact it is a 1009 AD Masoretic Hebrew which was used to translate into Latin then English, primarily from the Leningrad Codex manuscripts. This is not the langauge of Original scripture but a version, for example the Greek Septaugint dated to 285 BC is also a version of original scripture, the Septuagint renders Gen. 1:6 "And God said, 'Let there be a form (stereoma )in the midst of the water'. 'Form' is signified by the numeral "4", the Greek word for "form" when between the 'waters' is the formation of the division of two energies of opposite polarity - the Earth is yet to be created so God must in order to create material matter "Forms" stereoma - concieves a form for it, like a cast. This formation of postive and negative division behind all matter like an oscillation of dualling power like a sine-wave as a modern physicist would understand it is invisible. So there is a cast of formation to concieve the earth but it is invisible and it is divided into positive and negative energies. This is underatandable through particle and quantum physics - where there is no such thing as a 'solid' particle, there is no such thing as solid material matter, but it is fluid units of energy which can be controlled by the mind of God.

Basically a good scientist would end up agreeing it would only be due to their lack of knowledge that they would not be able to see the truth of the Bible, and in fact the truth of the Bible is only revealed to those who are given the Holy Spirit to see.

Now as we see the source I posted earlier is correct in pointing out that the Hebrew language has been influenced by Babylonian mythology, but God of course does not need to rely on one witness manuscript. What is noticable is that if someone wants to read in Babylonian mythology then that is what they will read, but that is not the word of God, the word of God is revealed by the Holy Spirit, so when He speaks through the ages His sheep can hear Him perfectly and understand Him completely, but others who are not His sheep have absolutely no idea what He is saying, they are deaf and blind and without guidence, they cannot understand, they think that the sky is made of solid cast iron, or a giant bronze mirror or just have no idea at all, they're lost.
 
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Graybeard

Guest
1) I watched a documentary on TBN about this question though, on "How old is the earth?" It was by so called christians that mix Science and Christianity , supporting the billions of year theory. Now remember this is on TBN a christian network, as in a non believer will take this as THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE, or a christian with little faith maybe start to question there belief when watching this. These people acted with out a dout the earth is billions of years old.

2) Now i am kinda getting off topic for what this thread is about but I am not sure how many people are awhare of the......
1) That's interesting, (as I said in my very first post on this thread) this is exactly why I wanted to hear what other beliefs there are about the age of the earth, read my fist post... wonder, have you maybe checked out what scriptures they base this belief on?..perhaps there is something that we have not seen or understood yet and maybe, just maybe the Holy Spirit is revealing mysteries that make all these scientific discoveries understandable to us showing to all creation just how Great a God He is and in the end reveal that His Holy Word is in fact TRUE! as He has said in Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
2) yes you are


But more importantly let me explain the meaning of raqia from more authoritive sources, for the other Christian readers of this thread, so to clear up the confusion......
very interesting...
untill I read this:eek:

The sun does orbit the earth just like the Bible says so...
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
Yeah, I'm still waiting to see what the arguement and scripture with the whole the sun orbitting around the earth thing is.
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Yeah, I'm still waiting to see what the arguement and scripture with the whole the sun orbitting around the earth thing is.
I just brought up 'The Fixed Earth' thread again so you and others can have a read.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
I just brought up 'The Fixed Earth' thread again so you and others can have a read.
WARNING!
if you dare venture to this thread be warned that your sanity will be tested,
your intelligence mocked and trampled on,
and you will be left gobsmacked with a stupid smile on your dial!
it's a scary place:eek:
really! I'm actually embarrest a belief can be so naive:eek:
 
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pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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A thought, if God chose us and created us from the beginning then would that mean the earth is as old as we are? smiles and God bless, pickles
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
exactly, most scientists do not even know or acknowledge that the evidence they have taken years to find and can now prove, confirms what is written in The Word! for example there are verses that indicate that the stars and all creation sing unto the Lord...
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together......

Psa 148:1 Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD from the heavens; Praise Him in the heights!
Psa 148:2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts!
Psa 148:3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!
Psa 148:4 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens!
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, For He commanded and they were created.

Scientists now have discovered that each star actually omits a sound and they don't know why!
Wow, didn't know that, just goes to show how scientifically precise the good book is.
 
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