So what about the fourth commandment?

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Sep 5, 2016
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Rom 14.1-6 is referring to fasting. Pharisees had two specific days for fasting. Paul is not saying God's Sabbath doesn't matter.
Okay, I'll take one more swing at this from Colossians chapter 2.
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Rom 14.1-6 is referring to fasting. Pharisees had two specific days for fasting. Paul is not saying God's Sabbath doesn't matter.
Its not about whether it matters or not but more is a ceremonial (fleshly) law used as a shadow and therefore something that we cannot judge one another with?

I don't think anyone said that the Sabbaths don't have a purpose.Its just as a perfect law..... the Sabbaths could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks?

I think a good understanding of the laws that pertained to the flesh as shadows could aid a person like for instance looking at the verse below.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in "the flesh". This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I would suggest the whole matter is about judging one another in respect to carnal "fleshly" laws. Therefore I would think having a proper understanding as to the purpose of ceremonial (fleshly) laws, I believe would be needed if we are to understand nature of the flesh and that would include anyone's flesh regardless of what nation, to include the Jewish nation in whom God formed out of two pagan nations. Abraham's father was Amorite and his mother Hittite . The new Jewish nation was used as types and shadows pointing ahead to new creation, until the time of refomation.... "The renting of the veil."

I would view it in a similar way as when investigating some matters following the money trail $$$$$$$ can help a person come to a proper conclusion. With ceremonial laws, "carnal, fleshly" laws as that in which we are clearly instructed not to judge one another with respect .

In regard to the Judaizers iit would seem they are required to follow the "fleshly" trail. And gain in this sense, Hebrew seeing it was nation he put together formed of two nations .

Heb 10:20 By a new and "living way", which he hath consecrated for us, through the "veil", that is to say, "his flesh";


The "veil" that represented the temporal "flesh" as a sign to the rebellious Jews Christ has come in the flesh is used in types as metaphors and shadows until the "time of refomation".It which did represent the flesh of the Son of man..... has been rent from the top to the bottom for some time now. When Christ said it was finished it was, the demonstration is over. If it was not there would of been no renting of the "veil" And the Jews would still be sacrifices animals, as shadows, hoping Christ will come in the flesh.

And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.Mar 15:37

In regards to the idea about fasting.it would seem there is no such thing as a law of fasting two specific days. The reference was in respect to eating not fasting. It would appear some one made that up?

The foundation of the subject matter is from the last verse in the previous chapter 13 ending with verse 13 of chapter 14.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thoujudge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Make not provision for glorying in the "flesh" in respect to carnal fleshly laws that served as shadow until the time of reformation. This is whether they are in respect to Sabbath days or eating.

Its simply follows the same conclusion as other references to carnal fleshly ordinances as shadows that were used until the time of refomation .The veil representing the "flesh" clearly shows the time of refomation had come.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Col 2:16


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and "carnal ordinances", imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;Heb 9:8




 
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Officermayo

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Okay, I'll take one more swing at this from Colossians chapter 2.
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Consider who the letter was written to - the Colossians. Who were they?

Members of the congregation at Colosse had incorporated pagan elements into their practice, including worship of elemental spirits. The Epistle to the Colossians declares Christ's supremacy over the entire created universe and exhorts Christians to lead godly lives.


The "meat, drink, holydays and Sabbath days" (plural, not the singular Sabbath of God) were of Pagan origin. These were not Christian Jews trying to go back to their previous Jewish ways. They were Pagans who didn't keep The Sabbath.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I need to correct that.
In KJV, no "servile" work if for the other Sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath.
I don't want to attempt to define it just yet. However, the Hebrew word seems to be used often in the context of a servant or slave.
Then I believe we're at this question,

working for an iphone is never ok if the iphone is to gratify a person's lusts.

working at the job God has given you to buy an iphone because it's a required part of the ministry God has called you to, that would be ok on everyday of the week...

do we agree there?

(note: I can't think of a ministry that would require an iphone, but *if* it did)
 
Sep 5, 2016
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The "meat, drink, holydays and Sabbath days" (plural, not the singular Sabbath of God) were of Pagan origin. These were not Christian Jews trying to go back to their previous Jewish ways. They were Pagans who didn't keep The Sabbath.
There are OT laws with eternal validity. It is always wrong to murder or steal, every day. But there are also OT laws which are time dependent. The holy days and Sabbath days require abstention from labor on those days alone, but labor is acceptable outside of those days. So the laws in the latter case are ceremonial, much like the food laws, and Christians are not bound by them after Calvary. Offered with all due respect, as the daughter of an SDA mother.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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a guest comes into rhe church
" excuse me, all the seats are full, could you please find me a chair?"
"sorry bro. that would be doing work on the sabbath. guess you gotta stand"
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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And your attitude seems to be that the sabbath is given to man to do with as he likes ?

Let's see what JESUS' CUSTOM was, what HE did with/on the Sabbath ? 'He went into the synagogue (church) on the Sabbath day and stood up for to read'.
Quite a ''diferent attitude to what christians show. The sabbath was made for us to help us DO the right thing ---IF you would understand Jesus' attitude !
Or do you think he is fickle like us to 'say one thing and 'do another ?
HE's THE LORD. and LORD of the SABBATH... HE gets to judge HIS OWN SERVANTS
 
Jul 1, 2016
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a guest comes into rhe church
" excuse me, all the seats are full, could you please find me a chair?"
"sorry bro. that would be doing work on the sabbath. guess you gotta stand"
what? stand for the whole 28 minute sermon? unheard of.
who can worship while standing? (sarcasm)
 
Jul 1, 2016
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There are OT laws with eternal validity. It is always wrong to murder or steal, every day. But there are also OT laws which are time dependent. The holy days and Sabbath days require abstention from labor on those days alone, but labor is acceptable outside of those days. So the laws in the latter case are ceremonial, much like the food laws, and Christians are not bound by them after Calvary. Offered with all due respect, as the daughter of an SDA mother.
ma'am. I disagree. "ceremonial laws" is a man made term. or in this case, a woman-made term.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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Then I believe we're at this question,

working for an iphone is never ok if the iphone is to gratify a person's lusts.

working at the job God has given you to buy an iphone because it's a required part of the ministry God has called you to, that would be ok on everyday of the week...

do we agree there?

(note: I can't think of a ministry that would require an iphone, but *if* it did)
not up to me. God says no work on the Sabbath. Seemeth we try to "interpret" too much.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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ma'am. I disagree. "ceremonial laws" is a man made term. or in this case, a woman-made term.
That's a good one. The woman made them do it. Are you saying no ceremonies or no ceremonial laws?

Which woman made it up and for what reason? Was she trying to say the shadow as signs have come, the veil is rent proving Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God has come in the flesh and therefore the time as to the workings of refomation
has been going on since then. Or are you still hearing the bleating of sheep that you say are not used in ceremonies?

Did that woman sew up the rent veil putting the refomation on hold? Where did you get that stuff from? Jewish fathers?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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not up to me. God says no work on the Sabbath. Seemeth we try to "interpret" too much.
It's no servile work and its nothing we are to judge each other in respect to.

Shadows are not the substance of the eternal rest . Seeing most Christians I commune with are still in their corruptible bodies of death( here on earth) , that eternal rest will not be realized till we receive our new incorruptible bodies that will not age in a process that leads to the death returning to the lifeless spiritless dust it was taken from. (regardless what color it is or who your parents where).
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Originally Posted by disciplemike

not up to me. God says no work on the Sabbath. Seemeth we try to "interpret" too much.
Numbers 9:3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all "the ceremonies" thereof, shall ye keep it.

I would think that the kind of God as you seem to be painting a picture of in regard no celebrations in respect to ceremonial rules that you say some woman has made up. He who you say did not perform those kinds of rules made up by a woman had something to say about those ceremonies that would in effect could do nothing to perfect the conscience until the reformation.

The Jews that looked to their flesh as some sort of a hope God’s judgement would by pass them simply ignored the warnings not mixing the faith of (generated by) Christ in what they did hear .

Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God.I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me. I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds.For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High: Psa 50:7

The same with rest ceremonies in respect to the Sabbath. He is still resting from the labor of doing the work waiting for men to enter in by faith.

Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts "my soul hateth": they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Will you mix faith and not experiencing practicing ceremonial rules as walking by sight in what you do hear and enter in today. Hebrews is specially designed for the Judasier that walks after the flesh rather than by the faith that does give us His rest, form our own works.Chapter 4 comes to my mind.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, “not being mixed with” faith in them that heard it.For we which “have believed” do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were “finished” from the foundation of the world. Heb 4:1
 
Sep 5, 2016
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ma'am. I disagree. "ceremonial laws" is a man made term. or in this case, a woman-made term.
In that event, you would not be deprecating the "sabbath days" mentioned by Paul as mere Jewish holy days not applicable to Christians. Observing them is part of the ten commandments stated in Exodus 34:

[18] The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
[22] And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
[25] Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
[26] The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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not up to me. God says no work on the Sabbath. Seemeth we try to "interpret" too much.

I hear you! so I think we can both agree with "No work on the Sabbath, however you understand that to be."
 
Jul 1, 2016
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In that event, you would not be deprecating the "sabbath days" mentioned by Paul as mere Jewish holy days not applicable to Christians. Observing them is part of the ten commandments stated in Exodus 34:

[18] The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
[22] And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
[25] Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
[26] The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
I am not sure what you mean. I observe the Feasts of God.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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That's a good one. The woman made them do it. Are you saying no ceremonies or no ceremonial laws?

Which woman made it up and for what reason? Was she trying to say the shadow as signs have come, the veil is rent proving Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God has come in the flesh and therefore the time as to the workings of refomation
has been going on since then. Or are you still hearing the bleating of sheep that you say are not used in ceremonies?

Did that woman sew up the rent veil putting the refomation on hold? Where did you get that stuff from? Jewish fathers?
whoa, slow down tex.
I only used the "woman-made" remark because a lady made a post using the term "ceremonial law". It was a little humor. very little I guess.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Whenever our Heavnly Father gives us a gift, it is not wise to reject it.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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In Leviticus 23, the weekly Sabbath is mentioned first, in the detailed list of "Feast" of the LORD. (KJV)

So what does "Feast" mean?

It is an appointment with God. It is a day to spend in fellowship with God, and also like-minded believers.

Who does not want a day to spend with God???
(a day that He chose, as the appointed time)

We were told it is bondage. We were told it was for the "Jews". We were told it does not apply to us.
We were lied to.